tuning down ... illegal ?

[ParlourMan]

I am the singer ....

 

so your tuned down a half step... making it easy for the singer apparently..yes ?

 

well instead of capoing at the 3rd fret for insatnce..just capo at the second... do you follow..?

 

am i missing something?..

 

Yeah I follow, however there are exceptions, some licks/riffs etc do not respond well to transposing, so those songs in Em/E (technically Ebm or Eb) sound far better from being tuned down than they do being played in those shapes in Std.

 

Rarely is my singer in G, A, C etc... it's normally Gb, Ab, Db and so on.. at that point retuning simplifies a lot of songs, and allows you access to the full fretboard again. For myself I normally play in Std, for my wee combo I'm tuned down a half-step.

[ParlourMan]

So, to further it, your 'babe I'm gonna leave you' from the other day, lets say you need to play it in Abm rather than Am. How you going to do it?

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Well yea..if ya singer is flat..he's flat..what ya gonna do..hehe

 

I learn songs from listening to artists..and usually learn them in the key they play..9 thenm may change the key to suit my vocals once really learned )

the stuff I like..rarely if at all are they tuned down..they are just using capoe's.. open tuning ect is a different matter.

 

But if a singer likes to be tuned down a half step..well I suppose it makes sense..

 

Kurt Cobain liked to be down a half step a lot..I suppose you just get used to singing in that key

[Del Nilppeznaf]

So, to further it, your 'babe I'm gonna leave you' from the other day, lets say you need to play it in Abm rather than Am. How you going to do it?

 

Yea...fair point.. but i just wouldn't try it in Abm...I'd go to Bm or maybe even Cm...

 

its just the way i have learnt songs..I suppose.. alot of stuff I learn will be in Bb for example..so I capo at 3rd using G position..when watching the arstists I like,,this is what they do..so I try and emulate that.

 

( edit..I can't even think of any songs I know..that would play in Ab... to get a sound there are certain keys and positions that work in a particular style..and are well used... it sound more authentic if you stay in those keys to me anyways :) )

[ParlourMan]

Well yea..if ya singer is flat..he's flat..what ya gonna do..hehe

 

In a nutshell..... My singer has quite a howl on him too, a feisty pair of lungs but not one song we do is in it's original key, we do a version of place your hands, remember that Reef song, original in D, ours in Ab... and so on. By that point it becomes sensible to tune down. But for stuff like the cover of the Faces tune Ooh la la, it means I'm now at capo 8 to be able to keep the riff going between the relative D/Em chords.

 

In fact there's about 4-5 songs that would benefit from being detuned a whole step. The semi-tone down works out as the best all-rounder for us.

[EuroAussie]

You gotta be careful with singers.

 

I find they often claim that they need this or that song transposed to 'their' key, but when pushed I often find they can sing it in the original key just fine. Theyre just lazy prima donnnas sometimes.

 

We always tunde down half a step but then we still like to play as much as possible in the original key (albeit half step lower) unless we signficantly re-arranged the track and they its open which key we play it in.

 

I know its about the singer, but you gotta keep em in line sometimes ...

[blindboygrunt]

You gotta be careful with singers.

 

I find they often claim that they need this or that song transposed to 'their' key, but when pushed I often find they can sing it in the original key just fine. Theyre just lazy prima donnnas sometimes.

 

We always tunde down half a step but then we still like to play as much as possible in the original key (albeit half step lower) unless we signficantly re-arranged the track and they its open which key we play it in.

 

I know its about the singer, but you gotta keep em in line sometimes ...

 

i'll admit to that , in practice sometimes its hard to 'let it out' which is hard to do , you've all seen my videos , i'm sobre in them , usually done 9 or 10 in the morning when i get practice peace ....i'm aware of the camera , dels gonna be slating this , hard to get to the level needed.......i'm not exactly the same guy who plays with two other people in a pub with a couple of pints to loosen up and an atmosphere....

 

euroaussies right , but us singers are baffled by it , and frustrated

[BluesKing777]

You gotta be careful with singers.

 

I find they often claim that they need this or that song transposed to 'their' key, but when pushed I often find they can sing it in the original key just fine. Theyre just lazy prima donnnas sometimes.

 

We always tunde down half a step but then we still like to play as much as possible in the original key (albeit half step lower) unless we signficantly re-arranged the track and they its open which key we play it in.

 

I know its about the singer, but you gotta keep em in line sometimes ...

 

Ha!

 

 

I was watching a good show about the Motown songwriting/production team Holland Dozier Holland and they had problems getting a certain singer to get over a hissy fit and come back into the studio and sing the song as written - "Where Did Our Love Go" by D. Ross and The Supremes - not her correct key apparently....

 

 

BluesKing777.

[E-minor7]

For me it's very much about the sound of the instrument - finding a deeper second nature of the guitar.

 

No matter what key, which tuning, how capoed, the range of the singer is the same, , , the highest note remains the highest note etc. . .

 

Of course some stuff are better suited here than there, , , in that case fiddle your way forward to where it flies.

[drathbun]

I keep the J200 tuned down 1/2 step and the SWD tuned to standard. The bigger body on the J200 with the 1/2 step low really makes it project and boom.

 

If you want to go a full step low, consider medium strings.

[livemusic]

Tuning down illegal? Tell Jackson Browne that. Half tone, full tone.

 

I tune down often and it's for vocal range.

[rodmeister]

There's no law against it. "Illegal" creates a mental image of the police raiding your house, grabing your guitar and tuning it up to "legal" standards. But seriously, my favorite Utube guitar player tunes down his J-45/50 one step for his mellow and melancholy songs and it'd great.

[J200_2013]

Tuning down a whole step is a fairly radical thing to do. Half the way makes many guitars sound better, like more profound. Though one can clam on a capo, it's not for beginners, it simply isn't.

 

I consequently play half down - but one whole when with my little band thus have to do some hellish chord-math on the spot when communicating.

Gives the bass-player a healthy challenge – you know a cliche like G-F# to Em suddenly becomes F-E to Dm and so forth.

And yes ! - I drop my '54 6th to deep C.

 

 

Folks playing what may be called "virtuoso" Delta blues will tune down a step and then clap on a capo on the second fret. This has the effect of lowering the tension on the strings and giving a little more room at the effective nut. A good example is Stefan Grossman playing Mississippi Blues.

[j45nick]

Folks playing what may be called "virtuoso" Delta blues will tune down a step and then clap on a capo on the second fret. This has the effect of lowering the tension on the strings and giving a little more room at the effective nut. A good example is Stefan Grossman playing Mississippi Blues.

 

 

Stefan Grossman is a freakin' genius fingerpicker. He's a pretty good teacher, too, but I catch myself saying "wait a minute, how did he just do that?"

[E-minor7]

A good example is Stefan Grossman playing Mississippi Blues.

 

Remember we had this Grossman video on earlier. Yes he's a giant in his field and luckily still alive and picking.

 

Notice the lazy-like wet-slam in his sound while exercising the tune-down-capo thing. For some roles and tunes precisely that trick provides the particular voice needed.

 

To come back to the thread-titel - Nothing is 'illegal' except being afraid of goin' to page 2, , , , and further. . .

[milod]

On 12-strings ... yes, definitely although I ended up in the old days wearing silk 'n' steels that could go to 440.

 

Were I to be a "heavy string" guy, I could easily feature dropping a full tone and capoing up to play at pitch. Since basically I tend to figure 11's "heavy," as you might imagine I do most playing that's almost more "classical guitar" than "steel string" pickin', and with 9s on both electric and acoustics. Tuned to pitch.

 

Actually "guitar bands" often forget that many, many bands with brass and reeds will play in such keys as Ab, Bb and Eb because it's easier for the brass/reeds. I seem to recall that some folks do/did a lotta blues in such keys if they had brass/reeds too. So... one way or another you're gonna have to transpose and/or use the capo. I've done both, but frankly figure it's easier with the capo most of the time.

 

Tuning down will get a different tone. But then, so will the same strings on a shorter scale guitar, etc.

 

m