Has Gibson stopped using laminated fretboards and bridges???

[zombywoof]

I know Gibson made their own laminate in the 1950s (and yes it did cost more to produce a laminate maple body J-200 than the solid body version) but do they still make it today or are they buying laminate boards from which to fashion the bridges.

[Guth]

More power to you guys that would genuinely rather have the laminate components over their solid counterparts. I personally wouldn't buy such a guitar, not unless we're talking instruments costing three figures instead of four, then I might consider it, but I still doubt that I would buy one. I don't care if Gibson had to spend more on labor to build the laminated parts, period. However, as I stated earlier "which if it wasn't their scrap wood would certainly cost less than the thicker stock used to carve the bridges and fretboards out of". Why do you think companies resort to laminate components in the first place? By some people's logic here, the little Martin that I bought for my son a few years ago should have cost thousands of dollars just for the neck alone.

 

Whether or not this becomes a black eye on Gibson's history is of little concern to me, I personally think that these guitars are an embarrassment for the company. I'd feel the same way if it was Martin, Taylor or any of the smaller builders doing so and charging the same prices. That's the part that upsets me the most, the fact that Gibson tried to pawn this off as something that it wasn't.

[ParlourMan]

See, the argument about costing more doesn't make sense to me, I know there's laminate and there's laminate, that much is true, but as Guth stated just above this post, you can have a laminate guitar for 3 figures over 4 etc... you can even buy a laminate guitar with decent enough woods and some lamination, again 3 figure guitars not 4.

 

Pedantic though it may be, if solid construction is cheaper why do they cost so much over cheaper laminate constructions? Clearly it doesn't really, you may have an extra process step, but I highly doubt there's more waste, lets be honest some Lacey Act bridges are very far from grain matched etc... implying one sheet glued to a second, loads of bridges cut out, et voila... the cost of the two legal and all likely cheaper sheets plus the glue may at best offset the cost of the legally dubious sheets of thicker wood.

 

Lets we forget, alternative supplies of 1 piece bridges are as low as $18 single unit customer price from aftermarket suppliers, a job lot of a few thousand to tide them over while they sourced another supplier that wasn't an infringement would have been considerably lower and they would have paid no tax on it as it was a cost of doing business therefore deductible.

 

The argument can rage on, I don't really care, I never give my two piece bridges a second thought, I could easily have returned the one I bought, but it sounds great, so I didn't. The replacement one would have been harder to argue out as my supplier was a bit of a tool throughout the case and it was Gibson who stepped up, so overall, I'd say the point they might lose in my book for bean-counters being bean-counters is more than made up by the customer service guys manning up, fixing my problem by replacing my faulty guitar with a great sounding J-45.

 

Nonetheless, on a 300-500 quid guitar any gripes about laminate, I wouldn't even respond to the thread, on guitars costing several thousand a pop and only a wee page with some colourful prose hidden away on the website being the only admission of any spec change, well, it's a bit cheeky. Despite Del's nay-says to my earlier example, there's a multitude of luxury products that clearly wouldn't sell in the luxury good market if the specs were perceived somehow lesser by the usual demographic they sell to. Like it or not, this is an example of this case.

[ChrisA83]

More power to you guys that would genuinely rather have the laminate components over their solid counterparts.

 

I'm not sure anyone's saying they prefer the laminates, just that it makes no difference to the sound.

 

In fact i think it was PM that said he wouldn't have bought his (first one at least) if he'd known before-hand it had a laminate bridge (someone did anyway). I think I'm in the same boat - it's puts me off the purchase, but if I wasn't aware, liked the sound, and bought it, I wouldn't be worried. Also remember that most Gibson owners don't frequent this forum so are not aware of this issue anyway.

[ParlourMan]

I'm not sure anyone's saying they prefer the laminates, just that it makes no difference to the sound.

 

In fact i think it was PM that said he wouldn't have bought his (first one at least) if he'd known before-hand it had a laminate bridge (someone did anyway). I think I'm in the same boat - it's puts me off the purchase, but if I wasn't aware, liked the sound, and bought it, I wouldn't be worried. Also remember that most Gibson owners don't frequent this forum so are not aware of this issue anyway.

 

Not quite, I knew about the issue at the time, went in-store looking for a hummingbird played a load of Gibsons, kept returning to the J-50 I eventaully bought, issue was clear out of my mind as it isn't as obvious on the J-50 and I did look it over... got home, raved about my new guitar, even claimed it was a single piece proposing that it seemed Gibson had gone back to single pieces, looked it over again in finer detail and discovered it was a rather discrete 2-piece construction. I could have easily shipped it back, took my money and run, but I posted on here "laminate or not, its the one I returned to several times that day, I love it and I'm keeping it" and that was the end of my story for that guitar. The J-45 I have with the 2-piece was issued to me from Gibson and via my supplier, a more obvious 2-piece job, but would have been hassle to return and I loved it from right out the case anyway, I also knew it would be a guitar I gigged regularly... so I kept that one too, ripped the misaligned guard off, stuck on a guard of my choice, gigged it and dinged it 2-3 days later, still love that guitar, will still love it a while down the line too.

[stein]

I know it's been said, but I'll say it again:

 

Focus on the issue seems to be entirely on Gibson, but really the MAIN issue and driving force behind it is the Government, the Feds.

 

I wasn't there, I have no "inside" info, but for those that have ever run into a wall with a Government agency, right or wrong, legal or illegal has less to do with it, as opposed to individuals with authority, a task, and an agenda.

 

My understanding is during the second raid, the workers, AND Gibson, were told fingerbaords of a certain thickness were illegal. They took the rosewood of a certain thickness, told them they were in trouble, and TOLD them NOT to use rosewood over such-and-such thick. Now, at this point, it doesn't matter if it is right or wrong, or illegal or not, or even if the Feds have a right to do it. A Gov. agency with power has told you what they want you to do, and demonstrated their power, and proved the consequences.

 

Anyone ever been there? As in, felt or seen that the agency is clearly violating the law and your rights? This is a real question, not a retorical one. And, do you believe that this actually happens?

 

I type this because when it comes to the question of "why" the 2-piece fingerbaords and bridges are on these guitars, ^this^ can not be left out of the discussion or explanation.

 

And, it's worth asking if you are "OK" with it.

[j45nick]

I know it's been said, but I'll say it again:

 

Focus on the issue seems to be entirely on Gibson, but really the MAIN issue and driving force behind it is the Government, the Feds.

 

I wasn't there, I have no "inside" info, but for those that have ever run into a wall with a Government agency, right or wrong, legal or illegal has less to do with it, as opposed to individuals with authority, a task, and an agenda.

 

 

Give it a rest, Stein.

 

Since you admit you were not there, why are you re-opening what you know will only be a contentious topic that has been litigated here ad infinitum, and only serves to divide us?

 

This is now ancient history, however any of us feel about it.

 

Peace, brother......

[Bryn6490]

SOOOOOO......if all the hypothetical speculations are through with, has Gibson STOPPED using laminated bridges and fretboards?????

I'd like to know the answer to this question. I was looking at a J-45TV, and the dealer told me that the bridge and fretboard was laminated. I could see the laminated wood after it was pointed out to me. I will be going back to another Gibson dealer to see if the Gibson Cheryl Crow Country Western has laminated bridge and fingerboard. I cannot see paying $2750 for a guitar with laminated bridge and/or fingerboard.

[Bryn6490]

According to Henry Juszkiewicz, Gibson could not get rosewood from Aug,24 2011 to Aug 6, 2012. The Gibson Country Western Sheryl Crow guitar I wanted to buy was started (to be made) on July 25, 2012. This means that the fingerboard is more than likely laminated. The bridge is laminated. The Gibson J-45TV was started (to be made) in 2011 and I could easily see that the bridge and fingerboard are laminated. I passed on both of these guitars. I am now looking for a 2007 or 2008 NOS Gibson Country Western Cheryl Crow guitar. Maybe a 2013 Country Western.

[Guest J-Doug]

My 2012 J-45 Standard has a solid bridge and fingerboard. Sorry to say but it was a consideration when buying.

[onewilyfool]

According to Henry Juszkiewicz, Gibson could not get rosewood from Aug,24 2011 to Aug 6, 2012. The Gibson Country Western Sheryl Crow guitar I wanted to buy was started (to be made) on July 25, 2012. This means that the fingerboard is more than likely laminated. The bridge is laminated. The Gibson J-45TV was started (to be made) in 2011 and I could easily see that the bridge and fingerboard are laminated. I passed on both of these guitars. I am now looking for a 2007 or 2008 NOS Gibson Country Western Cheryl Crow guitar. Maybe a 2013 Country Western.

He could have ordered some from Stewmac? Or had Epiphone far East factory send him some along?

[onewilyfool]

I saw some Gibson electrics at our local shop that had Maple fret boards, that had been baked or something , under heat, and it darkened the maple. I think in the future, we are going to see more and more creative solutions on how to make existing wood supplies last, OR start using different woods or materials. I had a Martin 00-17 for several years, it had a black "Micarta" fret board and bridge. The guitar sounded great, I didn't even know til I tried to sell it, and some guy told me it wasn't ebony. I've heard.....some people's body chemistry would make that Micarta flake, but never happened to me. Since it sounded good, I have no idea what the difference would be between that and true Ebony. Point is, we are going to see more and more of these "substitutions" in the future, hopefully, in the future the manufacturer's will be more forthcoming and up front about it. Here is an old clip of that Micarta Martin:

 

[bobouz]

Back in 2001 when Martin first started putting Micarta boards & bridges on the 16 Series, it really bothered me. I always considered the 16 Series to be their best value with all solid woods. Still don't care for Micarta or Richlite, but I have to say, the baked maple boards are really nice. I've got two of them on 2012 LPs, and they feel smooth like ebony. On these two instruments, the end result looks more like a dark piece of rosewood.

[onewilyfool]

Back in 2001 when Martin first started putting Micarta boards & bridges on the 16 Series, it really bothered me. I always considered the 16 Series to be their best value with all solid woods. Still don't care for Micarta or Richlite, but I have to say, the baked maple boards are really nice. I've got two of them on 2012 LPs, and they feel smooth like ebony. On these two instruments, the end result looks more like a dark piece of rosewood.

Yeah, Maple is plentiful, and we will probably see more of this in the future!

[Bryn6490]

My 2012 J-45 Standard has a solid bridge and fingerboard. Sorry to say but it was a consideration when buying.

The only J-45 Standard I could find was at GC and it was 12 feet above me hanging on the wall along with all of the other Gigson acoustic guitars. When I found a GC employee to get the guitar down for me it had rusty crusty strings and sounded deaded (because of the old strings). I asked the guy why all of the Gibson acoustic guitars were hung up in the air and away from the other "HIGH END" brand acoustics and he had no answer. It took me 10min to even find the Gibson acoustics.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

The only J-45 Standard I could find was at GC and it was 12 feet above me hanging on the wall along with all of the other Gigson acoustic guitars. When I found a GC employee to get the guitar down for me it had rusty crusty strings and sounded deaded (because of the old strings). I asked the guy why all of the Gibson acoustic guitars were hung up in the air and away from the other "HIGH END" brand acoustics and he had no answer. It took me 10min to even find the Gibson acoustics.

 

Listen mate

if you hang around long enough you will get all the moans and groans you want about Gibson guitars..I'm guessing you just like to ***** ..so see you under a different non de plume next month x

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Excuse em oui if I seem a little perturbed and writing bad French

 

what led me to this forum was a query through a search engine..Google...many a funny named character on these shores of late.

 

Bryn 5789 ..well your first post was a load of bollox..asking a question in a manner that clearly knew there had been lengthy discussions about the issue here previous..and anyone falling for the clear attempt to stir discontent among members should be ashamed

 

Of course this is some what in jest..but FFS...go and buy a Taylor will ya

[Bryn6490]

Excuse em oui if I seem a little perturbed and writing bad French

 

what led me to this forum was a query through a search engine..Google...many a funny named character on these shores of late.

 

Bryn 5789 ..well your first post was a load of bollox..asking a question in a manner that clearly knew there had been lengthy discussions about the issue here previous..and anyone falling for the clear attempt to stir discontent among members should be ashamed

 

Of course this is some what in jest..but FFS...go and buy a Taylor will ya

I'm just trying to buy a Gibson acoustic guitar without a laminated bridge or laminated fingerboard. I almost bought a J-45TV until I found out it had a laminated fretboard and bridge. Samething happened with a Gibson Country Western Cheryl Crow. I found out this information on this website. Since I cannot get a definitive answer on when in 2012 Gibson stopped using a laminated bridge and fingerboard I am now looking for a Gibson J-35 2013. Unless of course I find a J-45TV I like. I already have a Taylor 710 and a Martin HD-28, Now I want a Gibson.!!! I do not need you to tell me what I should buy....MATE!!

[Bryn6490]

My 2012 J-45 Standard has a solid bridge and fingerboard. Sorry to say but it was a consideration when buying.

I played a nice 2012 Gibson J-45/50 Standard tonight. This might be the one I buy but I would like to play a J-35 first.

[chipss36]

Think I was one of the first to discover this on my j45 tv, so many Gibson fanboys

Flamed me as if I built it that way, I now see the whole original post has been removed

Why?

now it's plain to see Gibson and said fanboys want this all swept under the rug as fast as possible .

I am adding to this thread that people be warned and informed that Gibson has built substandard bridges and fretboards, and had us the consumer bail them out

Of what ever it was Gibson got them selfs into, as for my j45tv? It has a wolf tone on the open g string, I feel ripped off, every time I look at that pos.

And just feel sick Inside about it, about the fanboys on this site , who blame the consumer .

I am in the process of doing a you tube Video , 3k Gibson j45 tv vs a lowly 700$ all solid recording king.

This is going to be comical once finished , shame on you Gibson, shame on you fanboys of Gibson ,

My first and last Gibson has left a mark on me , and I will never forget it,

I will do everything I can within my power to Inform people a about what you did here, and my hope is many remain unsold and scorned ,

It's hits gibson in the wallet and hits it as hard as they did me ...

No reson to reply to this ill be back in a year or so to remind people about how lame Gibson treated there customers ...

[ParlourMan]

Think I was one of the first to discover this on my j45 tv, so many Gibson fanboys

Flamed me as if I built it that way, I now see the whole original post has been removed

Why?

now it's plain to see Gibson and said fanboys want this all swept under the rug as fast as possible .

I am adding to this thread that people be warned and informed that Gibson has built substandard bridges and fretboards, and had us the consumer bail them out

Of what ever it was Gibson got them selfs into, as for my j45tv? It has a wolf tone on the open g string, I feel ripped off, every time I look at that pos.

And just feel sick Inside about it, about the fanboys on this site , who blame the consumer .

I am in the process of doing a you tube Video , 3k Gibson j45 tv vs a lowly 700$ all solid recording king.

This is going to be comical once finished , shame on you Gibson, shame on you fanboys of Gibson ,

My first and last Gibson has left a mark on me , and I will never forget it,

I will do everything I can within my power to Inform people a about what you did here, and my hope is many remain unsold and scorned ,

It's hits gibson in the wallet and hits it as hard as they did me ...

No reson to reply to this ill be back in a year or so to remind people about how lame Gibson treated there customers ...

 

Pics or it didn't happen......... ;)

[chipss36]

Yeah, I remember a similar thread last year.

 

Am I right in thinking the only people with an issues are the ones who haven't got one? Cause all the people that have, have said they are fine? It seems that people go and try a few guitars the best one home(not me), so it really shouldn't mater.

 

Oh I was asking about the rosewood, cause I wondered if it was other types of wood, maple, ebony, hog etc?

Oh no I have a major issue with substandard parts on my 3 k plus guitar ,

So don't even go there .

[blindboygrunt]

Geez I can't stand people who flaff about and don't get to the point and say what they mean

[Gruffchris]

Oh no I have a major issue with substandard parts on my 3 k plus guitar ,

So don't even go there .

 

 

 

???? Go where? As I said a few of the people effected posted videos of their sweet sounding guitars. They had obviously gone in to the shop and tested a few with their ears, picked up one they liked only to find out later it was lam. I've not heard any stories of fretboard or bridge breakage from the laminated wood. So if they sound fine then what's the problem? If like you said yours sounded bad, then I would have taken it back to the shop and swapped it for another, whether it had been laminated or not. Wasn't you told at the time

 

personally I wouldn't buy one, but that's just because of percieved value.

 

Now my memory isn't as good as it used to be, but didn't you find out it was laminated just shortly after you bought it? I'm sure I told you to take it back? Why keep a 'substandard' guitar all this time?

[ParlourMan]

I have two Lacey Act models and two non-Lacey Act models.... so two with the laminated bridge (j-45 & J-50) and two with solid bridges / boards etc... Keb Mo sig, SJ-200TV.

 

While I have always agreed the Lacey Act stunt was a bit frustrating, it's not sonically an issue. Other manufacturers were able to still source solid parts so Gibson should have done so too instead of spinning it as an 'improvement' etc.. and then baking the bejesus out of maple. However, they didn't. You bought the guitar, identified a 2 part bridge within an allowed return period, but never returned it, so kind of on you really... can't expect to get much sympathy after all this time. Perhaps join a violin forum and someone will play a sad song for you.

 

Before you call me a fanboy, please note I'm often called a hater in here for some unknown reason, in fact I've been called a hater and an apologist by the same person on more than one occasion.