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J-45 Hell A Luthier's Discoveries

#21 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 06:09 PM

View Postsbpark, on 14 May 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

Has anyone questioned the guitar's authenticity? Is it in fact a real Gibson or a knockoff? I'm not saying something like this isn't possible from the factory. I've seen pieces of junk from other big manufacturers as well that I can't believe were allowed to leave the factory, but this one looks fishy to me. The burst doesn't even look like something that was sprayed by Gibson.



A knock-off probably wouldn't go to the trouble to replicate the dovetail neck joint. That's a tedious job, even done poorly.
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#22 User is offline   fortyearspickn 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 06:46 PM

View Postblindboygrunt, on 14 May 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

That bear must've been going at some speed when it hit that wall


I'm guessing he was running from the evil guitar tech that built this guitar.
Or more likely - the bear built the guitar and the tech was chasing him.
But Doctor McCoy - I'm curious why someone who doesn't own any Gibson Acoustics is spending so much time researching luthier repairs on them ?
Are you thinking of taking the plunge and joining the club?
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#23 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:11 PM

If the build date could be clearly established, it would help identify another period in Gibson's history to generally be avoided, or at least carefully evaluated prior to any potential purchase.

We know there are some excellent periods as well, so it's a heck of a lot easier to focus on those!
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '90 Tennessean / '00 J-100 Xtra
'02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '06 ES 335 / '09 ES 339
'10 ES 330L / '11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special
'12 J-185 / '13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15
> Epis: '66 FT45n Cortez / '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton
'05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada-Elitist) / '09 Elitist 1965 Casino
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood D / > Ibanez: '81 M-340
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire
'14 Savoy A-150b / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
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#24 User is offline   fortyearspickn 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:33 PM

View Postbobouz, on 14 May 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

If the build date could be clearly established, it would help identify another period in Gibson's history to generally be avoided, or at least carefully evaluated prior to any potential purchase.

We know there are some excellent periods as well, so it's a heck of a lot easier to focus on those!


Provenance?
Someone we don't know takes a guitar they claim is a 1992 or 1994 Gibson to a taxidermist and a few newbies here leap to the conclusion that Bozeman is conspiring to sell defective merchandise.
For all we know - this could have been one of those QC rejects that were ordered to be destroyed,, and someone grabbed it for their 10 year old nephew. Unless the original owner can come forward and verify he bought this specific (based on the serial number being kept hidden) guitar as a new Gibson J45 from an authorized (and not his Uncle Bob) and it was never worked on by an unqualified person - I'm going to consider the fact that we haven't gotten 25 years worth of similar cases reported here, so I'm assuming this is just an internet mind- bender.
SJ200 2004
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J45 Custom Koa 2013
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#25 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:49 PM

 fortyearspickn, on 14 May 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Provenance?
Someone we don't know takes a guitar they claim is a 1992 or 1994 Gibson to a taxidermist and a few newbies here leap to the conclusion that Bozeman is conspiring to sell defective merchandise.
For all we know - this could have been one of those QC rejects that were ordered to be destroyed,, and someone grabbed it for their 10 year old nephew. Unless the original owner can come forward and verify he bought this specific (based on the serial number being kept hidden) guitar as a new Gibson J45 from an authorized (and not his Uncle Bob) and it was never worked on by an unqualified person - I'm going to consider the fact that we haven't gotten 25 years worth of similar cases reported here, so I'm assuming this is just an internet mind- bender.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing for anyone to get their panties in a twist about. For a while during the post-Kalamazoo/pre-Montana interval people were getting hired pretty much off the street to build flat top guitars. It wasn't the greatest idea - and it lasted just long enough to produce some atrocities. Time was/time has passed. All is well except for the occasional revenant.
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#26 User is offline   ponty 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 09:00 PM

Seriously folks.....This guitar is pre 1994, and and could be as old as 30 years.
Gibson didnt let this out of the factory in any bad way.
The cracks are from abuse! In video 4, the'luthier' points out that there is a 'cleat'
on the upper bout, bass side - both my '93 J-45s have this. Curious, I emailed customer service,
to find out what this was. They stated that this additional 'patch' was placed there to support the addition.
of control knobs if the customer wished to have electronic placed.Thats all it is. Not to hide cracks from the factory.
If you have a 1990s J-45, check this out, yours may have one too.
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#27 User is offline   blindboygrunt 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:48 PM

Seems like the best advert for not attempting to do any work on your guitar if you don't know what you're doing

Or at least be honest with the luthier
And admit you'd had a go at it yourself
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#28 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:57 PM

View Postfortyearspickn, on 14 May 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Provenance?
Someone we don't know takes a guitar they claim is a 1992 or 1994 Gibson to a taxidermist and a few newbies here leap to the conclusion that Bozeman is conspiring to sell defective merchandise.

Since you were referencing my post, I feel somewhat compelled to respond. Firstly not as a newbie, as secondly not as someone suggesting that Bozeman is conspiring to sell defective merchandise.

I am suggesting that it would be very helpful to know the year of manufacture. The cut of the neck joint does look wonky, and if this instrument carries a valid serial number, it very well could be indicative of a lean period in construction. In interviews, even Ren has spoken of periods of time during his tenure where there were issues with the final product leaving the plant, and of course we're pretty familiar with the '70s. Unfortunate things do happen.

Yes, there may be something off base here, but in general, I'd rather have more information as opposed to less.
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '90 Tennessean / '00 J-100 Xtra
'02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '06 ES 335 / '09 ES 339
'10 ES 330L / '11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special
'12 J-185 / '13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15
> Epis: '66 FT45n Cortez / '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton
'05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada-Elitist) / '09 Elitist 1965 Casino
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood D / > Ibanez: '81 M-340
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire
'14 Savoy A-150b / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
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#29 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:46 AM

View Postponty, on 14 May 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

Seriously folks.....This guitar is pre 1994, and and could be as old as 30 years.
Gibson didnt let this out of the factory in any bad way.
The cracks are from abuse! In video 4, the'luthier' points out that there is a 'cleat'
on the upper bout, bass side - both my '93 J-45s have this. Curious, I emailed customer service,
to find out what this was. They stated that this additional 'patch' was placed there to support the addition.
of control knobs if the customer wished to have electronic placed.Thats all it is. Not to hide cracks from the factory.
If you have a 1990s J-45, check this out, yours may have one too.


Hilarious. Informative post of the week there, Ponty.

So I took the '93 J-100 out for a look:

Posted Image

As far as the Luthier from Hell guitar in this thread; who knows what guitar-flipper/chainsaw- luthier/poly re-sprayer person had this guitar before it's current owner, and before it got to this "luthier".

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#30 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 05:03 AM

It's easy to get drawn off the path by those so-called 'logical fallacies' I used to teach writing students to avoid. In this case we're looking at a classic case of inadequate sampling, drawing premature conclusions on the basis of too little data. On the bright side, that trend appears to be reversing as more posts are added👍
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#31 User is offline   fortyearspickn 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:09 AM

View Postbobouz, on 14 May 2017 - 10:57 PM, said:

Since you were referencing my post, I feel somewhat compelled to respond. Firstly not as a newbie, as secondly not as someone suggesting that Bozeman is conspiring to sell defective merchandise.

I am suggesting that it would be very helpful to know the year of manufacture. The cut of the neck joint does look wonky, and if this instrument carries a valid serial number, it very well could be indicative of a lean period in construction. In interviews, even Ren has spoken of periods of time during his tenure where there were issues with the final product leaving the plant, and of course we're pretty familiar with the '70s. Unfortunate things do happen.

Yes, there may be something off base here, but in general, I'd rather have more information as opposed to less.


Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was replying to you, sort of in a 'continuing the points you made' kind of way.
Clearly you are not a Newbie - and I agree/agreed with every point you made in the comment you made to which I replied.
And further - yes, I agree, I'd rather have more info than less.
My concern is when people post things and don't ask for info. They post partial, left field types of things and then make broad, sweeping statements.
SJ200 2004
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J45 Custom Koa 2013
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#32 User is offline   fortyearspickn 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:14 AM

OC - in the spirit of Full Disclosure - I posted my reply to Bobouz BEFORE actually reading your comment. So, I wasn't plagiarizing !
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#33 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:15 AM

 fortyearspickn, on 15 May 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was replying to you, sort of in a 'continuing the points you made' kind of way.
Clearly you are not a Newbie - and I agree/agreed with every point you made in the comment you made to which I replied.
And further - yes, I agree, I'd rather have more info than less.
My concern is when people post things and don't ask for info. They post partial, left field types of things and then make broad, sweeping statements.

As referenced by my 'inadequate sampling' notion☺
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#34 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:23 AM

 fortyearspickn, on 15 May 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

OC - in the spirit of Full Disclosure - I posted my reply to Bobouz BEFORE actually reading your comment. So, I wasn't plagiarizing !

PLAGIARISM! I call foul! You must repeat the class or suffer lifelong academic disgrace😡
Seriously - I figured we were just on the same page, to put it into punspeak😛 Neither of us has any need or inclination to plagiarize😎
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#35 User is offline   fortyearspickn 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:38 AM

View PostOldCowboy, on 15 May 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

PLAGIARISM! I call foul! You must repeat the class or suffer lifelong academic disgrace😡
Seriously - I figured we were just on the same page, to put it into punspeak😛 Neither of us has any need or inclination to plagiarize😎


I prefer mixed metaphors: Same page, different church.
Or did I just plagiarize from Yogi Berra?
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#36 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:51 AM

 fortyearspickn, on 15 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

I prefer mixed metaphors: Same page, different church.
Or did I just plagiarize from Yogi Berra?

Ah, Yogi did indeed have his way - meant to say he had A way (or away?) - with the language😄😅
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#37 User is offline   MissouriPicker 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:49 AM

Too many questions in regards to the path of this guitar and what, if anything, happened to it, who owned it, what work was done to it, etc. Or is the guitar even authentic?........I just like playing guitars, particularly Gibsons. [thumbup]
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#38 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:48 AM

View PostE-minor7, on 14 May 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

It's relevant to ask when this guitar is from - what do the double-ring rosette and the pearl-dot-less bridge tell us. .

Plus minus 1990 ?
1994....it's mine.
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#39 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 12:09 PM

View PostAllie, on 15 May 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

1994....it's mine.



So, you were able to decipher the serial number after all? They guy working on the guitar in the video implied it was unreadable.

What kind of shape was it in when you acquired it?
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#40 User is offline   Allie 

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 12:36 PM

View Postj45nick, on 15 May 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

So, you were able to decipher the serial number after all? They guy working on the guitar in the video implied it was unreadable.

What kind of shape was it in when you acquired it?
The serial number on the back of the headstock is ..as he said so full of finish that it is nearly all unreadable but the sound hole sticker is as new and yes it is indeed a 94, The guitar was in good condition other than the crack in the back of the neck at the 1st and second frets and a slight bend in the fret board at the the 14th fret giving the neck a bit more relief than it should of had, as it turns out the neck had started to pull away from the body and that was why it was determined that a neck rest was in order. This all unfolded from there. That was when he found the neck block broken and reglued and the dovetail joint off center of the body therefore requiring the shims to center it to the body when assembled.
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