How do the Les Paul Classic serial numbers work?

[heritage cherry]

I hope we haven't had this before. If we have, sorry, I wasn't paying attention at the time to topics about Classics.

 

But I've seen the light and am interested in a Les Paul Classic and unlike most people, DO like the ceramic magnet pick-ups.

 

The Classics have a six digit serial number X X X X X X "printed" onto the back of the headstock. I understand how the serial numbers work on the standards but think the Classic serial numbers work a different way?

 

The Classic I'm "dating" has the "greeny/yellow" fret-markers with 1960 on the pick-guard. I think it is an older superseded one to the current Classics and the serial number (if I knew how it worked) would indicate when it was made. Don't recall what the serial number of this one is right now.

 

Any assistant would be appreciated.

[Tim Plains]

1 (800) 4-GIBSON

[NeoConMan]

How do the Les Paul Classic serial numbers work?

 

They don't.

I have one, I know.

 

Call Gibson.

That's what I had to do, they told me there was really no rhyme or reason behind them.

 

My guess is to hinder counterfeiting, among other things.

If you're a scammer and you don't know the Gibson protocol, you can't just make up a number thinking nobody will notice.

[This one goes to 11]

Neo's right. I typed mine into the (damn, just forgot - is it guitarfinder? serialfinder? The link's in several threads on this forum - Tim A, help) and it told me mine was made in the 60's. If it's got a 6 digit number then the first two refer to the year of manufacture. Look on Gibson's website under the technical help side, & there's a download of the Blue Book on Gibsons. Follow Tim's link as well.

[RONNIESIZE]

i think its the guitar dater project site, anyway thats for standards i dont know about classics.=)

[gearbasher]

I believe for pre 2000 the ser.# is 5 digits...the first one is the last # of the year. (ex. 4 9642 would be a '94) For 2000 and on (six number ser.#) the first two digits are the year.

[AXE®]

Les Paul Classic: This model features an ink stamped serial number with no "MADE IN USA" (just as we used on the original 1952-1960 Les Pauls). Most will be 5 to 6 digits in length, but the earliest examples feature 4 digit serial numbers. There should be a space after the 1st digit with the 4 and 5 digit serial numbers, and no space with the 6 digit numbers.

 

The 1st digit indicates the year of manufacture for the 4 & 5 digit serial numbers, these were used from 1989-1999. The 1st and 2nd indicate the year of manufacture for the 6 digit serial numbers which we've been using since 2000.

 

Examples -

9 xxx = 1989 (4 digit number beginning with "9" used only in 1989)

0 xxxx = 1990

9 xxxx = 1999

00xxxx = 2000

05xxxx = 2005

[surfpup]

The 1st and 2nd indicate the year of manufacture for the 6 digit serial numbers which we've been using since 2000.

 

Yep. That is my understanding as well. However, most of the serial number sites do not seem to know this! For example, the Guitar Dater Project discussed earlier this week says "serial number unrecognized" in response to my 2007 Classic's 6 digit serial.

[This one goes to 11]

Neo's right. I typed mine into the (damn' date=' just forgot - is it guitarfinder? serialfinder? The link's in several threads on this forum - Tim A, help) and it told me mine was made in the 60s.[/quote']

 

Like I said, my first response from guitar dater (sounds like some of us Gibson-loving obsessives doesn't it) was that my serial was unrecognised, then after trying again I got the 60s answer. Maybe Gibson have been a bit too authentic, or they're just out to keep us all occupied.

[matiac]

How do the Les Paul Classic serial numbers work?

 

They don't.

I have one' date=' I know.

 

Call Gibson.

That's what I had to do, they told me there was really no rhyme or reason behind them.

 

My guess is to hinder counterfeiting, among other things.

If you're a scammer and you don't know the Gibson protocol, you can't just make up a number thinking nobody will notice.[/quote']

 

When I had my Classic, I asked the mod in the Custom forum, he wasn't aware Gibson USA was doing that scheme with the Classics, he though they were only doing 6 number sequences with the VOS, and Customshop guitars.

[heritage cherry]

Thanks guys, for all your responses. That has been very helpful.

[NeoConMan]

When I had my Classic' date=' I asked the mod in the Custom forum, he wasn't aware Gibson USA was doing that scheme with the Classics [/quote']

Yep.

Mine's obscure enough Gibson cannot give me an exact build date.

Late 2000 or early 2001 is the best they can do. Holidays messed up their serial numbers or some crap like that.

I bought it new in May of 2001.

 

My six digit serial starts with 00, so maybe there's SOME logic there.....

[kaoss303]

i still dont get it with the Gibson les paul classic ... what about the serial 8 1128 ! year ? original ?

looks and sound like this one but this one in this video has 6 dig serial :

 

 

plz help me out !

[pippy]

i still dont get it with the Gibson les paul classic ... what about the serial 8 1128 ! year ? original ?

looks and sound like this one but this one in this video has 6 dig serial :

 

plz help me out !

 

There were a few examples made in 1989 which had 4-digit numbers in the form 9 XXX . The 9 designates '89 and the other numbers form the number of the actual instrument. From 1990, the 1960 Classic guitars have 5 digit serial numbers which start with the year they were made; so, in the example you show, 8 1128 is for a guitar made in 1998; number 1128 of the run.

 

In 2000 they changed to a six digit serial starting 00 XXXX. A guitar with the number 08 1128 would have been from 2008 and so on.

 

P.

[kaoss303]

There were a few examples made in 1989 which had 4-digit numbers in the form 9 XXX . The 9 designates '89 and the other numbers form the number of the actual instrument. From 1990, the 1960 Classic guitars have 5 digit serial numbers which start with the year they were made; so, in the example you show, 8 1128 is for a guitar made in 1998; number 1128 of the run.

 

In 2000 they changed to a six digit serial starting 00 XXXX. A guitar with the number 08 1128 would have been from 2008 and so on.

 

P.

 

thx a lot !

 

do you think it worth's it too buy one from 1998 in new condition (found a reseller that got one ) so first hand for 1750,- euro with orig case !?!?!

[kaoss303]

does the gibson les paul classic build before 2000 have certification ? i am on the go to buy that babe i think !

[JO'C]

does the gibson les paul classic build before 2000 have certification ? i am on the go to buy that babe i think !

 

I have a beautiful 1999 Ltd. Edition LP Classic. Black with 1960 on the pickguard. The S/N is 9 XXXX. I wasn't sure about the S/N sequencing either so I emailed Gibson customer service and they confirmed that it was indeed a 1999. A pic can be found at:

 

http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/JOC1021/Gibson%20Guitars/?action=view&current=1960ClassicLPincase.jpg

 

So ,if in doubt, email the S/N to Gibson.

[pippy]

does the gibson les paul classic build before 2000 have certification ? i am on the go to buy that babe i think !

No certification.

 

The Classic range isn't really a target for counterfeiters, however.

 

Good luck!

 

P.

[tazzboy]

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Support/SerialNumberSearch/

[msaint]

I have a beautiful 1999 Ltd. Edition LP Classic. Black with 1960 on the pickguard. The S/N is 9 XXXX. I wasn't sure about the S/N sequencing either so I emailed Gibson customer service and they confirmed that it was indeed a 1999. A pic can be found at:

 

http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/JOC1021/Gibson%20Guitars/?action=view&current=1960ClassicLPincase.jpg

 

So ,if in doubt, email the S/N to Gibson.

I just purchased a beautiful 1998 Gibson Heritage Cherry Burst Les Paul, serial number 8 0249. It weighs 10.01 lbs and is unchambered. Alarmed by the more than reasonable price ($1,300.00) prior to purchasing, I alerted the Gibson 24 hour tech service and customer support and inquired about this item. The serial number is printed on the rear of the head stock and then covered by a nitrocellulose coat without a "made in usa" on the head stock at all. I was told that all the classics manufactured during the 1990s-1998 were actually unchambered Traditionals and Standards, left over from earlier years with plain rather than flamed tops, that had been overstocked and unsold as Standards or Traditionals due to the plain tops. They also said that the only difference between the Classics, Standards and Traditionals from the '90's to '98, were the 1960's thin neck and the pickups. The one's sold as STDs and Trads had Classic Alnico '57s, and the Classic LP's had 496R's and 500T' ceramics pups, and except for the neck were actually the very same heavy, unchambered guitar, and much more superior to the later chambered and weight relieved Classics manufactured after 1998. These pre 1999's didn't have veneered maple tops and actually had carved maple tops like all Standards and Traditionals. They came with five numbers on back of the head stock, with the first digit being separated from the subsequent digits by two spaces, and the first digit being indicative of the year of manufacture, with the remaining three being the lot number of the item. He indicated that the 90's Classic, quality wise, due to its carved maple top and unchambered solid body, is a much more superior instrument than subsequent Classic models. I asked him how he knew so much about Gibson LP's, and he said he was 66 years old and had worked at both the Kalamazoo and Nashville shops in Manufacturing and Quality Control. He also said QC fell off Gibson products during the 1970's and 1980's, then picked back up during the 90's, and then declined again from '99 to 2004. That's all I was able to find out from the horse's mouth(Gibson). He said if you have a Classic LP from 1990 to 1998, to hang onto it because they'll be going up in price very quickly due to their superior quality and rarity. I have a 2012 Wine Colored Classic Custom LP, a 2004 Ebony Les Paul Classic 1960's reissue, and this Heritage '98, an American Special Tele, a rare and awesome 1984 monster E Series Japanese made Strat (the best Strat ever made, and vastly superior in every way to it's American made counterpart), a Martin D-28 acou/elec, a rare 1994 Gibson Faded Cherry Flying V with the thick Ebony Fret board and the beautiful CRESCENT MOON FRET BOARD INLAYS on it, and I must say, I love that guitar like I loved my wife while she was still alive. I also have one of the only earlier Schecter Basses ever made in America, and a year 2000 Fender Sunburst 5 string Passive Precision Bass that's never been played, and only been out of it's case twice since I've had it, and I got it when it was brand new. I'm 70 years old and haven't learned how to post photos on here yet. Hell, I just recently learned how to use a computer (a little bit).

[Rabs]

He said if you have Classic LP's from 1990 to 1998, to hang onto them because they'll be going up in price very quickly due to their superior quality and rarity.

Heres a really good quote from Pippy who knows just about all there is to know about them.....

 

 

A little bit of the history of the 1960 Classic;

The 1960 Classic was introduced in 1989. This pre-dates the official re-issue program by four years.

Before 1993 various attempts had been made, by Gibson, to re-create the 1959-style Standard with varying degrees of success. These are usually known as the 'pre-historics' for obvious reasons. Many players at the time liked the '59-style instruments but the then-current trend was for guitars to feature slimmer neck profiles and hotter p'ups. After repeated requests had been made Gibson introduced the 1960 Classic. At the time it was priced roughly half-way between the price of a regular Standard and the pre-historics; i.e. around 40% higher than the Standard of the day.

 

The earliest instruments seem to have been released with very slim neck profiles which were later beefed-up - presumably to counteract pitch-problems which were a downside to these instruments. I've played a few and they all have very slim necks and, of course, my own '91 example suffers from this 'problem'. Once in tune it stays in tune but tuning-up can be a PITA as each turn of one tuning-peg throws all the other strings out of pitch.

The early Classics were similar in construction and appointments to the pre-historics and also to the first R9's proper when these instruments appeared in 1993. Weight-relief and neck profile apart the only other 'real' difference was the neck-tenon which was longer in the R-I's.

Consequently buyers started to wonder why they were being asked to shell-out so much more for an Historic over the 1960? It's almost certain that the Historic Division - later Custom Shop - was losing sales because the Classic was so close to the Historics in specification. The end result was that the Classic was gradually changed so as to become visually different from the R-I's - such as the introduction of the aged-inlays, the wider style of binding in the cutaway and the change from Les Paul MODEL to Les Paul CLASSIC silkscreen from around '94/'95.

Later, and has been mentioned by Flight, the bridge was changed from the (original style) ABR-1 version to the more usual Nashville.

The Nashville was introduced as an improvement over the ABR-1 in the late '70s when the bulk of Les Paul production moved from Kalamazoo to, erm, Nashville. It's a beefier design which allows for greater saddle adjustment but it's not the original design so.......

As can be seen in the snaps posted by yourself (2004) and Rabs (2002) the Nash came in sometime between the manufacture of these two instruments.

 

The '1960 Classic' stayed in this spec until it was finally discontinued in 2008.

A bit of a shame that it was dropped but a nigh-on 20-year lifespan for the model suggests it was pretty popular with the masses.

I love mine.

 

Pip.

[rct]

I just purchased a beautiful 1998 Gibson Heritage Cherry Burst Les Paul, serial number 8 0249. It weighs 10.01 lbs and is unchambered. Alarmed by the more than reasonable price ($1,300.00) prior to purchasing, I alerted the Gibson 24 hour tech service and customer support and inquired about this item. The serial number is printed on the rear of the head stock and then covered by a nitrocellulose coat without a "made in usa" on the head stock at all. I was told that all the classics manufactured during the 1990s-1998 were actually unchambered Traditionals and Standards left over from earlier years with plain rather than flamed tops that had been overstocked and unsold as Standards or Traditionals due to the plain tops. They also said that the only difference between the Classics, Standards and Traditionals from the '90's to '98, was the 1960's thin neck and the pickups. The one's sold as STDs and Trads had Classic Alnico '57s, and the Classics LP's had 496R's and 500T' ceramics, and except for the neck were actually the very same heavy, unchambered guitar, and much more superior to the later chambered and weight relieved Classics manufactured after 1998. These pre 1999's didn't have veneered maple tops and were actually carved maple tops like the Standards and Traditionals. They came with five numbers on back of the head stock, with the first digit being separated from the subsequent digits by two spaces, and the first digit being indicative of the year of manufacture, the remaining three being the lot number of the item. He indicated that the 90's Classic, quality wise, due to its carved maple top and unchambered solid body, is a much more superior instrument than subsequent Classic models. I asked him how he knew so much about Gibson LP's, and he said he was 66 years old and had worked at both the Kalamazoo and Nashville shops in Manufacturing and Quality Control. He also said QC fell off Gibson products during the 1970's and 1980's, then picked back up during the 90's, and fell off again from '99 to 2004. That's all I was able to find out from the horses mouth. He said if you have Classic LP's from 1990 to 1998, to hang onto them because they'll be going up in price very quickly due to their superior quality and rarity.

 

Dear Penthouse:

 

If I didn't live through that summer I wouldn't believe me either, but my camp counselor was...

 

rct

[pippy]

Congratulations on your recent purchase. 1960 Classics are, as a rule, wonderful instruments.

Play Long and in Good Health!

 

If I may be allowed I'd just like to clarify a couple of points made in the text;

 

I was told that all the classics manufactured during the 1990s-1998 were actually unchambered Traditionals and Standards, left over from earlier years with plain rather than flamed tops, that had been overstocked and unsold as Standards or Traditionals due to the plain tops. They also said that the only difference between the Classics, Standards and Traditionals from the '90's to '98, were the 1960's thin neck and the pickups....and except for the neck were actually the very same heavy, unchambered guitar, and much more superior to the later chambered and weight relieved Classics manufactured after 1998. These pre 1999's didn't have veneered maple tops and actually had carved maple tops like all Standards and Traditionals...

 

He indicated that the 90's Classic, quality wise, due to its carved maple top and unchambered solid body, is a much more superior instrument than subsequent Classic models...

As far as the weight-relief / chambering goes there seems to be a slight misunderstanding somewhere along the way;

After circa 1982 until 2008 all (carved-top style) Les Pauls with the exception of the re-issues were made with weight-relieved bodies. After 2008 a newer method of weight-relief, chambering, was introduced on some models but the majority carried on with the 9-hole 'Swiss Cheese' practice.

Finally in 2013 the Traditional was offered with a solid body but rumours are the 2016 Trads will revert to the 9-hole W-R system.

Your 1960 Classic, therefore, is certainly "unchambered" but is, without a doubt, weight-relieved.

 

When the 1960 Classic (never 1960 Classic Re-Issue, by the way; it is not a re-issue) was introduced in 1989 the original intention was for them to feature plain-tops but there are examples as early as 1991 which have highly figured tops. By 1994/5 flame top'd Classics were almost as common as the plain-tops. There were two grades of figuring; 1960 Classic 'Plus' (AA top) and 1960 Classic 'Premium Plus' (AAA). Outwardly there was no 'marking' to differentiate these from the regular plain-top but these designations can usually be found inside the neck pickup cavities as seen here (Les Paul Premium Plus);

 

Finally Gibson Les Pauls don't have veneered tops. Some Epiphones have veneered tops but all carved-top Gibsons have solid maple caps..

 

Pip.

[msaint]

I hope we haven't had this before. If we have, sorry, I wasn't paying attention at the time to topics about Classics.

 

But I've seen the light and am interested in a Les Paul Classic and unlike most people, DO like the ceramic magnet pick-ups.

 

The Classics have a six digit serial number X X X X X X "printed" onto the back of the headstock. I understand how the serial numbers work on the standards but think the Classic serial numbers work a different way?

 

The Classic I'm "dating" has the "greeny/yellow" fret-markers with 1960 on the pick-guard. I think it is an older superseded one to the current Classics and the serial number (if I knew how it worked) would indicate when it was made. Don't recall what the serial number of this one is right now.

 

Any assistant would be appreciated.

The Classics from 1990-1999 had 5 numbers printed on back of the headstock, with the first number being separated from the subsequent four by two spaces, whereby the first digit indicated the year of manufacture, and the remaining 4 were the lot numbers (the guitar's place in line of that particular production lot). They also were actually Standards and Traditionals, with the only differences being they had 60's necks and ceramic 496R and 500T pickups with no "Made in USA" on the headstock. Also, (unlike later Classics) they were unchambered (10.01 lbs.) as all other Standards and Classics from that period were, and the only reason they were slightly cheaper in price was because they tended to have plain carved maple tops rather than the Flame Tops that came on the ones sold as Standards and Traditionals. On some of the later models (post 1999's) were the greenish fret board inlays, which of course had nothing to do with the playability of the instrument, however, the pre 1999's had the pearl colored fret board inlays. In 1999, the QC deteriorated on all Gibbys until around 2004, however, the same quality of the one's produced in the 90's has never been duplicated even to this day. If you have one manufactured between 1990 and 1998, hang on to it because its price will be escalating due to its rarity and superior playability and build quality.

 

I obtained this information from the Gibson Sales and Customer Service 24 hour a day call service at 1-800-444-2766. The rep (we talked for two hours from 11 PM -1 AM) said he was 66 years old and had worked at both production and QC at both the Kalamazoo and Nashville plants for many years.

 

I hope this helped a little bit.

[msaint]

Congratulations on your recent purchase. 1960 Classics are, as a rule, wonderful instruments.

Play Long and in Good Health!

 

If I may be allowed I'd just like to clarify a couple of points made in the text;

 

 

As far as the weight-relief / chambering goes there seems to be a slight misunderstanding somewhere along the way;

After circa 1982 until 2008 all (carved-top style) Les Pauls with the exception of the re-issues were made with weight-relieved bodies. After 2008 a newer method of weight-relief, chambering, was introduced on some models but the majority carried on with the 9-hole 'Swiss Cheese' practice.

Finally in 2013 the Traditional was offered with a solid body but rumours are the 2016 Trads will revert to the 9-hole W-R system.

Your 1960 Classic, therefore, is certainly "unchambered" but is, without a doubt, weight-relieved.

 

When the 1960 Classic (never 1960 Classic Re-Issue, by the way; it is not a re-issue) was introduced in 1989 the original intention was for them to feature plain-tops but there are examples as early as 1991 which have highly figured tops. By 1994/5 flame top'd Classics were almost as common as the plain-tops. There were two grades of figuring; 1960 Classic 'Plus' (AA top) and 1960 Classic 'Premium Plus' (AAA). Outwardly there was no 'marking' to differentiate these from the regular plain-top but these designations can usually be found inside the neck pickup cavities as seen here (Les Paul Premium Plus);

 

Finally Gibson Les Pauls don't have veneered tops. Some Epiphones have veneered tops but all carved-top Gibsons have solid maple caps..

 

Pip.

Thanks! That was was a very informative piece of research.