For those who want to play by ear but can't...

[mcmurray]

And now for something completely different, ear training! (the most vital skill for a musician, but 99% of guitarists can't play 'happy birthday' immediately with no mistakes, sad but true!)

 

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Play a I, IV, V cadence in a key of your choice, then play the tonic (first scale degree) of that key. For example - key of C: play C major chord, F major chord, G major chord then play the note C.

 

Pick another key and do the same. For example - key of F: play F major chord, Bb major chord, C major chord, followed by the note F.

 

Notice how the tonic always sounds the same in context no matter which key you're playing in?

 

Now play the cadence again followed by the third scale degree of that key. Choose another key and repeat.

 

Notice how the third scale degree always sounds the same in context no matter which key you're playing in?

 

This is the basis for functional pitch recognition, listening for scale degrees once a key has been established in your ear. Every scale degree sounds distinct and they're very easy to discern after a short while.

 

It's that simple folks, no knowledge of intervals required.

[NeoConMan]

It's that simple folks, no knowledge ... required.

THAT'S the part that works for me!!!

 

Thanks Mac.

 

[mcmurray]

lol

 

Once you start hearing this, no knowledge is required, you just hear it

[ksiegel]

And now for something completely different, ear training! (the most vital skill for a musician, but 99% of guitarists can't play 'happy birthday' immediately with no mistakes, sad but true!)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Play a I, IV, V cadence in a key of your choice, then play the tonic (first scale degree) of that key. For example - key of C: play C major chord, F major chord, G major chord then play the note C.

 

Pick another key and do the same. For example - key of F: play F major chord, Bb major chord, C major chord, followed by the note F.

 

Notice how the tonic always sounds the same in context no matter which key you're playing in?

 

Now play the cadence again followed by the third scale degree of that key. Choose another key and repeat.

 

Notice how the third scale degree always sounds the same in context no matter which key you're playing in?

 

This is the basis for functional pitch recognition, listening for scale degrees once a key has been established in your ear. Every scale degree sounds distinct and they're very easy to discern after a short while.

 

It's that simple folks, no knowledge of intervals required.

 

I'm sure it is very simple as you say, but I have no idea what you mean by "scale degree" or "intervals".

 

But then, I can't read music, and have been playing by ear for nearly 40 years. Not very well, mind you, but well enough to have fun - and that's the most important part to me.

[saturn]

I'm sure it is very simple as you say, but I have no idea what you mean by "scale degree" or "intervals".

 

But then, I can't read music, and have been playing by ear for nearly 40 years. Not very well, mind you, but well enough to have fun - and that's the most important part to me.

 

Using the key of of C: Like he already stated the First degree would be C. C,D,E - the Third is E. C,D,E,F,G so Fifth is G ect.

See now?

[rocketman]

I never considered myself to be born with musical talent, but I was born with the ability to recognize notes. I did it almost immediately after I started playing piano. My nine year old son can do it too. I really have no idea how I do it though. People talk about seeing "colors" in the notes but I really don't know. Some people say it's a gift but I think it's a curse. I can't listen to music without seeing the notes in my head. I sometimes wish I can turn my brain off and just listen to music.

[WahKeen]

With all due respect, not everyone is a "theory only" learner. Not everyone learns to play the guitar the same way. Some people are visual, others, kinetic, others auditory, others all three, and others are so plain ADD that they could not define a technical term if the fate of Western civilization was at stake, lol.

 

But could all of the above have success (self satisfaction or monetary, since success is not measured in $)? Of course. Some more knowledgeable than others? Sure. Some capable of standing toe to toe with Andres Segovia without having all his knowledge? Possible.

 

Some people are "gifted" and seemed to have been born to play the instrument whether they learn theory or not. Some become proficient by learning to read music. Does theory help? Absolutely! Can it make you a better player? Yes. Is it for everyone, including pros (real pros) to make a living at it? No. Can you be a talented, skilled player knowing basic, not advanced theory? Yes.

 

Jimi Hendrix was self-taught. Would anyone in their right mind decline to play with him because he couldn't "communicate" with trained guitarists/musicians? That argument has gotten thrown around (the 'cannot communicate with others') a lot.

 

Music is felt ultimately, not just read. I'm not knocking education in music theory. I'm simply resonating that great guitarists get a bum rap for not knowing it, when they know the neck up and down and can figure out things with a little time. This topic has been addressed before in this forum; I just thought I'd give my 2 cents worth on it here. I love playing guitar and would never say I'm done learning.

 

I guess it depends on the learning. If I don't "get it" the old fashion way, I'd learn it visually and audibly. That would keep me from smashing my guitar and not wanting to ever touch one again. I'm always out looking to learn new things and want to be able to do a variety of things, and so far, I've done ok for a self-taught dude. I know the basics, but not advanced theory. Some have heard me play here and I don't claim to be anything but a man who plays for the Lord. What can I say?

[cjlandry]

I think that, if you play for The Lord, you're doin' alright. I understand he likes to jam to a good groove.

[WahKeen]

I think that, if you play for The Lord, you're doin' alright. I understand he likes to jam to a good groove.

 

Yessir

[mcmurray]

I'm sure it is very simple as you say, but I have no idea what you mean by "scale degree" or "intervals".

 

 

Scale degrees are simply notes in a scale. For example, a major scale has 7 notes i.e. 7 degrees. For the key of C major, the 7 degrees are as follows: C = first degree, D = second degree, E = third degree, F = fourth degree, G = fifth degree, A = sixth degree, B = 7th degree.

 

Each degree will sound the same in context no matter what key you're playing in. Take the tune 'happy birthday', you can play it in any key and it will be instantly recognizable. The first note is the 5th degree of the major scale, and it has the same melodic role in all keys.

 

Intervals are the differences in pitch between two successive notes. One can train their ear to recognize intervals, but I don't advise doing this to start with as it's much harder than listening for scale degrees.

[mcmurray]

I never considered myself to be born with musical talent, but I was born with the ability to recognize notes. I did it almost immediately after I started playing piano. My nine year old son can do it too. I really have no idea how I do it though. People talk about seeing "colors" in the notes but I really don't know. Some people say it's a gift but I think it's a curse. I can't listen to music without seeing the notes in my head. I sometimes wish I can turn my brain off and just listen to music.

 

You're referring to perfect pitch right? Hearing a note and naming the note by letter? What you've got is a valuable skill, but not what I was referring to with this method.

[Kimbabig]

I think the guys on here have proven to me that theory is necessary and is a lot simpler than I was afraid it would be.

[mcmurray]

I think the guys on here have proven to me that theory is necessary and is a lot simpler than I was afraid it would be.

 

Interesting point. Thing is though, ear training is not really theory. Two sides of the same coin, sure, but you don't have to be a theory expert in order to play by ear.

 

I know people that are a walking encyclopaedia of musical theory, yet they can not play by ear or transcribe to save their lives.

[badbluesplayer]

I believe in following others' recipe for success, whether its in business, atheletics, music, whetever. If you follow somebody else's proven way of doing something, you don't have to understand everything about it, success just happens.

 

When it comes to playing guitar, I believe that if you want to play like a certain person or in a certain style, it's easiest to learn the way they did - like by ear or whatever - and physically play the way they do - at the same positions using the same fingerings and chord shapes. If you follow somebody else's recipe for success, you don't have to know why it works, it will just work without you worrying about it.

 

For instance, if I want to play "Tore Down" the way Clapton plays it, with his trademark riffs, I am going to have to play it from the same position as he does. Otherwise, I physically won't be able to do it. And it'll never have the same subtleties if I'm trying to play it from some odd-ball position. I'll have to use the same fingerings as him or it just won't come out right.

 

If I want to play some BB King stuff, I have to play out of the same positions as him, otherwise there's no way physically to sound like him. Same for Hendryx.

 

Same thing for the learning process. I play blues and all the great blues guitarists are self taught by ear. That's how I learned and I can't imagine having to learn any other way. I would be horrible if I learned this CAGED stuff or interval training or any of this "book" type learning - or the stuff where you're supposed to play any scale at any position on the fretboard. None - make that zero - of the great blues guitarists learned that way - and for good reason. I don't care how smart you are, the more you have to think about playing blues, the more you will suck. And the simpler your playing style, the easier it is to play the hard stuff.

 

When I learned engineering, I followed the recipe for success. Go to school, do your internship, get your license, that kind of stuff. When I learned to play guitar, I did it the same way that my heroes did it. I'm smart enough to know that I don't have to understand stuff to be good at it.

 

And the fact is, if Hendryx ever tried to learn by using some of these cockamamie theory things - I, IV, V, 68, 22, who's on third - he would have really sucked and nobody would ever have heard of him. Same with most - if not all - the greatest blues guitarists. They didn't know what a I, IV or V or VI was until well after they became great guitarists.

 

So if you wanna be a good blues guitarist, follow the recipe that the greats used.

 

Now if you don't have a good ear, all bets are off.

[mcmurray]

^ Well said. Agreed on all points.

[ShredAstaire]

With all due respect, not everyone is a "theory only" learner.

 

Exactly...which is why the subject is "For those who WANT to play by ear but can't".....

 

You can't fault a guy for trying to help...

[mcmurray]

Next piece of the jigsaw puzzle - once you can identify scale degrees (this will come with practice), it's just a matter of knowing where each scale degree is on the guitar neck within a particular key. Once this is learnt, one can play any melody they think of, instantly and correctly - no noodling required

 

Here's one way to approach this: http://www.jsguitarforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56336

 

Ok, enough spamming now. Hope it helps, or at least gives you something to chew on.

[badbluesplayer]

Now my brain hurts. I need a "jealous of people who know more than me" smiley.

[ksiegel]

Scale degrees are simply notes in a scale. For example, a major scale has 7 notes i.e. 7 degrees. For the key of C major, the 7 degrees are as follows: C = first degree, D = second degree, E = third degree, F = fourth degree, G = fifth degree, A = sixth degree, B = 7th degree.

 

Each degree will sound the same in context no matter what key you're playing in. Take the tune 'happy birthday', you can play it in any key and it will be instantly recognizable. The first note is the 5th degree of the major scale, and it has the same melodic role in all keys.

 

Intervals are the differences in pitch between two successive notes. One can train their ear to recognize intervals, but I don't advise doing this to start with as it's much harder than listening for scale degrees.

 

Okay, that I understand. In elementary school we used to sing the scales, (do- re- mi, etc.) and the teacher had us work with sharps and flats (do-di-re-ri-me-fa-fi, etc.) I can deal with 3 and 4 chord progressions, and noodle around to other players; I just never knew what any of that stuff was called.

 

The one guitar lesson I ever took, the teacher kept talking about the tonic, and I wondered where the gin and lime were. She never explained, and I never went back. (but then, I'd been playing for over 20 years at that time, too...)

[mcmurray]

Okay, that I understand. In elementary school we used to sing the scales, (do- re- mi, etc.) and the teacher had us work with sharps and flats (do-di-re-ri-me-fa-fi, etc.)

 

Do you still remember how each syllable sounds? If so, you're 99.9% of the way there

[chrisnorthw]

Thanks really useful will give this some practice.

[mcmurray]

bump

[ChanMan]

bump

 

 

How about something for those of us who play by ear, but want to play by theory?

 

I got the what is the I III V and such, how do you know what notes are in the scale. If it's nice easy whole notes... CDEFGAB, that's easy enough to understand... how would I know that the scale requires a half step?

 

 

It's EASY when I play it to know the notes are right or wrong, but I'm lost without hearing them......

[mcmurray]

How about something for those of us who play by ear, but want to play by theory?

 

I got the what is the I III V and such, how do you know what notes are in the scale. If it's nice easy whole notes... CDEFGAB, that's easy enough to understand... how would I know that the scale requires a half step?

 

 

It's EASY when I play it to know the notes are right or wrong, but I'm lost without hearing them......

 

Well the first thing to understand is that there is only one major scale sound as far as our ears are concerned, i.e. all keys are equal. The major scale always has the following combination of whole and half steps: WWHWWWH

 

For the key of C major the notes are CDEFGABC, like you said. For other keys, you can figure out the correct notes by applying the same combination of whole and half steps.

 

For example, F major - it wouldn't be correct to write FGABCDEF because this would not conform to WWHWWWH. To make it correct, a Bb is necessary.

 

When I'm playing I'm rarely thinking of the exact note name for each note, rather I think in terms of scale degrees using solfege i.e. do re mi fa so la ti do. These syllables do not change when playing in a different key, which makes the job 12 times easier.

 

For the natural minor scale the combination of whole and half steps is always WHWWHWW. The associated solfege syllables are: la ti do re mi fa so la. For C minor it wouldn't be correct to write CDEFGABC because it does not conform to WHWWHWW, to make it correct, an Eb, Ab, and Bb are required. i.e. CDEbGAbBbC

 

Try thinking in terms of solfege syllables and disregard the actual note names altogether, at least at first while you're trying to get your ear around the sound of the scale.

[ChanMan]

Well the first thing to understand is that there is only one major scale sound as far as our ears are concerned, i.e. all keys are equal. The major scale always has the following combination of whole and half steps: WWHWWWH

 

For the key of C major the notes are CDEFGABC, like you said. For other keys, you can figure out the correct notes by applying the same combination of whole and half steps.

 

For example, F major - it wouldn't be correct to write FGABCDEF because this would not conform to WWHWWWH. To make it correct, a Bb is necessary.

 

When I'm playing I'm rarely thinking of the exact note name for each note, rather I think in terms of scale degrees using solfege i.e. do re mi fa so la ti do. These syllables do not change when playing in a different key, which makes the job 12 times easier.

 

For the natural minor scale the combination of whole and half steps is always WHWWHWW. The associated solfege syllables are: la ti do re mi fa so la. For C minor it wouldn't be correct to write CDEFGABC because it does not conform to WHWWHWW, to make it correct, an Eb, Ab, and Bb are required. i.e. CDEbGAbBbC

 

Try thinking in terms of solfege syllables and disregard the actual note names altogether, at least at first while you're trying to get your ear around the sound of the scale.

 

 

Thank you man. I get the WHWWHWW thing now. Are those considered modes? Or , I guess, how do the modes correlate to this?

 

 

Excellent teaching. I was skeert you were gonna geek speak me . I admit to being rather lost in reading your initial post....

 

 

 

 

ETA

 

 

Ok I just went and played some Do Re Mi's. Starting at the G root, it seems to play GABC, and C is only a half step above B.. yes?

WWWH....

Holy **** I might be getting this... seems a trivial point, perhaps, but I've always considered half steps to be sharps and flats, and never really considered them within the context of what I was playing.

 

 

Thanks again Mac. Real eye opener for a 30+ year player who plays entirely by ear. It's been all I need as a rhythm player, but knowing where all I can go within a scale seems pretty ciritcal to playing lead....