Pancake guitars

[daveinspain]

What is the consensus of the pancaked Les Pauls that were made during the Norlin era? As I understand it it was done to strengthen the guitar and improve the sound and resonance of the body but they were discontinued so are these guitars considered good or bad?

 

[SG Jones]

What is the consensus of the pancaked Les Pauls that were made during the Norlin era? As I understand it it was done to strengthen the guitar and improve the sound and resonance of the body but they were discontinued so are these guitars considered good or bad?

 

 

Thet are very heavy and have a tendancy to sound a bit shrill. You have to keep the tone way down especially on the bridge pickup. There are some nice ones and there are some real dogs. As a rule they are not as nice as the standards produced today.

[charlie brown]

I have 2 "Norlin Era" Gibson's. 1976 LP Deluxe, and a 1980 LP Custom.

BOTH are excellent guitars, with loads of sustain, and tone. They're

also HEAVY AS HELL! LOL Consequently, they don't get played

that often, anymore. But, it's difficult, to near impossible, for me to

think about parting with them. :unsure:

 

Of the two, the LP Custom has the most sustain, and fatter tone, as one

might well expect. But, the LP Deluxe has it's own charm, as well. So,

I love 'em both! Volute, "Norlin" reputation, and all.

 

CB

[charlie brown]

Thet are very heavy and have a tendancy to sound a bit shrill. You have to keep the tone way down especially on the bridge pickup. There are some nice ones and there are some real dogs. As a rule they are not as nice as the standards produced today.

 

 

That's interesting. I'd never thought of them as "Shrill?"

But, maybe it's because mine are not, that way, at all.

The Deluxe is a bit "thinner" sounding, due to the mini-buckers,

but not really "shrill." My LP Custom is as fat and warm sounding

as any of my newer LP's (with '57's), if not more so.

 

Still, as you said, there are great ones, and "dogs!" I guess

I got "lucky?"

 

CB

[retrorod]

I am not sure of the overall concensus....but they seem to command decent prices on the secondary market. Overall, there seems to be a following for these.....even if they are Norlin.

I own a 1980 cherry burst Standard that is one-piece Hog body and two-piece top(kind of rare) for the era. It is a VERY heavy Paul, but sounds and plays like a million bucks! I think that the 'real-deal' with the pancake bodies is that they wanted to make use of some thinner slabs of mahogony (just my guess)....and by laminating them they got a LP body.

There appears to be a lot of LP Deluxes and Customs made that way...

[SG Jones]

That's interesting. I'd never thought of them as "Shrill?"

But, maybe it's because mine are not, that way, at all.

The Deluxe is a bit "thinner" sounding, due to the mini-buckers,

but not really "shrill." My LP Custom is as fat and warm sounding

as any of my newer LP's (with '57's), if not more so.

 

Still, as you said, there are great ones, and "dogs!" I guess

I got "lucky?"

 

CB

 

I have a '74 custom that I love, but I recently traded a '71-'73 goldtop that sounded like ice picks no matter what I put in it. And my custom weighs 2 tons!!!

[Rabs]

Go try one out :)

 

the new Zoot Suit is layered

 

[charlie brown]

I have a '74 custom that I love, but I recently traded a '71-'73 goldtop that sounded like ice picks no matter what I put in it. And my custom weighs 2 tons!!!

 

Interesting! Was your "Gold Top" a Deluxe? Those pickups, were not wax-potted, and could

become mircrophic, and "shrill" much easier. I had mine wax potted, because they had gone

so "microphonic" I couldn't even play it, without that kind of feedback, at even low volumes.

Once they were potted, they were outstanding, in tone...and NO feedback, at all! And, yeah..

my "Custom" is an anvil, 'round one's neck! LOL

 

CB

[SG Jones]

I am not sure of the overall concensus....but they seem to command decent prices on the secondary market. Overall, there seems to be a following for these.....even if they are Norlin.

I own a 1980 cherry burst Standard that is one-piece Hog body and two-piece top(kind of rare) for the era. It is a VERY heavy Paul, but sounds and plays like a million bucks! I think that the 'real-deal' with the pancake bodies is that they wanted to make use of some thinner slabs of mahogony (just my guess)....and by laminating them they got a LP body.

There appears to be a lot of LP Deluxes made that way...

 

 

The reason they sell for $3-5k is known as next best phenomenon in the vintage world. I would like a '50 Standard, but that is $150k. How about a '68 standard? $15k. What is next best that I can afford?

 

 

I hope that I don't offend anybody by saying that '70s Fenders suck 10 times more. It is damned hard to find a good '70s Fender. I thing they were made of lead.

[retrorod]

Sorry Rabs, but that is damned ugly dude!

[Rabs]

Sorry Rabs, but that is damned ugly dude!

Don't be sorry for me.. I don't own one :P

[SG Jones]

Interesting! Was your "Gold Top" a Deluxe? Those pickups, were not wax-potted, and could

become mircrophic, and "shrill" much easier. I had mine wax potted, because they had gone

so "microphonic" I couldn't even play it, without that kind of feedback, at even low volumes.

Once they were potted, they were outstanding, in tone...and NO feedback, at all! And, yeah..

my "Custom" is an anvil, 'round one's neck! LOL

 

CB

 

Yes, they were minis. I put Lollar P-90s in it and it still sucked. I liked looking at it though. It also made a great paper weight.

[charlie brown]

Yes, they were minis. I put Lollar P-90s in it and it still sucked. I liked looking at it though. It also made a great paper weight.

 

Really??! That's hard to believe, given Lollar's rep. Still, there

are some, that no matter what you do, it's still a "turd!" Been there,

done that!

 

CB

[ksdaddy]

I've had a dozen or more LPs from a 1955 gold top all the way up to a '99 black beauty Custom and about everything in between. The only one here now is my sandwich Norlin '71 Deluxe. Anyone laying a hand on it will look funny wiping their butt with a hook.

 

I think my position is clear.

[rct]

Like 70's Fenders, "pancake" Norlin era Gibsons were just fine. There were no more bricks as an overall percentage than there have been at any other time. My 70's Les Pauls were all fine, as were my probably dozen 70's strats and teles.

 

No offense intended to anyone, as all of our experiences are different, but I find it mostly true that the people that say that stuff usually aren't as old as my cases.

 

rct

[stein]

From the books I have read, there are the reasons GIBSON gave, and then there is reality.

 

As for making a stronger, more durable body, c'mon now? It's a SOLID body. There really isn't any need, nor was there ever, to have to do the cross-banding pancake thing to make a guitar any better or worse.

 

The real reason, had to do with the wood supply, and the buyers. Getting wood in thinner stock makes more wood more available, easier to get. So, changing the design to require purchasers to be able to get thinner slabs was thought to be easier from an inventory perspective.

 

My guess, (opinion), is that the maple band was likely a matter of taste, a "proper" way to do it, and more sightly.

 

What "they" say about it, is that the need, the productivity, the whole idea things would be easier making the pancakes didn't turn out to be true. Just another good idea from the Norlin dudes that wasn't a good one at all.

 

Anyway, I THINK the reason they are a thing these days, has nothing to do with the sound because of pancaking, or whatever differences in quality of the pancake contruction vs solid. I think it has more to do with the era of the guitar, the other qualities. The pancake era repesents an LP that is heavy, solid, heavy, and heavy. When men were men, and LP's were supposed to be solid mass of newtonian physics. Weight and bullet-proof finishes were advertised as good, and quality was measured in how low the action, and how long the sustain.

 

And the action WAS low, and the sustain LONG. The pancake doesn't cause this, but it is that badge that that's what you got.

[ZenKen]

Well I've had 2 Norlin, panckaed Les Pauls, a Custom and a Deluxe (still have the Deluxe) and for what it's worth they were both heavy as hell. Love the Deluxe, unloaded the Custom as I couldn't get on with the "Fretless Wonder" neck. It didn't occur to me back then that I could have had it re-fretted. B)

[Izzy]

This forum is so informative. I always go look up the stuff I'm not familiar with.

Pancake LPs from an era long gone...well, not that long. I learn loads with ya'll.

[L5Larry]

I bought a 1975 Les Paul Standard brand spankin' new. Still have it!

 

To use ksdaddy's line, "I think my position is clear".

[cjsinla]

I have 2 "Norlin Era" Gibson's. 1976 LP Deluxe, and a 1980 LP Custom.

BOTH are excellent guitars, with loads of sustain, and tone. They're

also HEAVY AS HELL! LOL Consequently, they don't get played

that often, anymore. But, it's difficult, to near impossible, for me to

think about parting with them. :unsure:

 

Of the two, the LP Custom has the most sustain, and fatter tone, as one

might well expect. But, the LP Deluxe has it's own charm, as well. So,

I love 'em both! Volute, "Norlin" reputation, and all.

 

CB

 

If your Custom is stock, it probably has the Shaw pickups in it, they sound great, especially in the bridge position.

[cjsinla]

I had one, it was my second electric guitar. 3 piece plain top and pancake body. I did not know what year it was made. I traded it because it had a small dead spot around the 14th fret, didn't occur to me that it could be fixed either. Can't remember what it sounded like. But, like others here, I have a few other Norlins that are great and only one of them has the volute.

[retrosurfer1959]

Yet another Gibson decision that people can't seem to stop discussing the pancake bodies were not a issue when they made them and other than the visible crack in the finish that makes it so distinctive my guess is most people couldn't tell the difference. hey are solis and heavy as a rule but I have four icluding to recording models and the light recording model is 10lbs 9 oz so there tanks. but they sure sound good.

[L5Larry]

It seems to me that the "myths" of the Norlin" era are perpetuated by those that either weren't there, or never owned one.

 

You don't hear blanket damnation of these Gibsons from those of us that have owned and played them. Yes there were "dogs", and there were what became unpopular design/detail changes, but that is typical of ANY manufacturer, of ANY product, or ANY era.

 

In the late 60's/early 70's there were two kinds of guitars, new and used. The "vintage" craze was still a thing of the future. Just like today, there were those of us that that scrimped and saved, and scraped together our lawn mowing money because we had to have a NEW guitar. We didn't want an old beat-up guitar off the trade-in rack, we wanted a shiny new one. Who could have known (or cared) at the time that these guitars would be condemned years later, we were playing a GIBSON.

 

By 1975 I had been able to buy two "real" guitars off the trade-in rack, a used Stratocaster, and an old reverse Firebird. When Gibson reintroduced the (production model) tobacco sunburst, full size humbucker, Les Paul Standard late that year, I HAD to have one. According to Gibson shipping records of the time, I may own the FIRST one shipped, and it's undeniably one of the first 25. It's been a great guitar, served me well, and I've never found a reason (or need) to replace it just because newer models may be more historically accurate, or prettier. In fact, the way Gibson markets reissues, it's probably just a matter of time before they come out with the "Norlin Era Historic Series".

 

Side Note: When the vintage craze DID hit (mid to late 70's), and things like serial numbers and manufacturing dates started to matter, it turns out my "used" Strat was a 1960, and my "old" Firebird was a 1964. I was instantly a "vintage guitar collector" and didn't even know it (or care).

[charlie brown]

I think the Japanese started the "Vintage" craze, just like they did, with old "Levis,"

later. And, you many be right about the date, but I didn't notice any real serious change

in "used" guitar prices, until the early, to mid '80's. Then, things started getting crazier,

and crazier. Now, anything "used," seems attempted to be marketed, as "Vintage," or "rare!" LOL

 

CB

[pippy]

Stein mentions some of the reasons the process was introduced - most notably the fact that Gibson could now use the same wood stock to make the bodies as they used to make the necks.

 

The reasons it was dropped, however, hasn't yet been addressed.

 

According to Tony Bacon's book on the LP;

 

"There were complaints from players and dealers about shrinkage around the obvious joins, but the extra labour costs involved in preparing the sandwich priced it out of existence anyway."

 

P.