It is......but it ain't...........

[duluthdan]

Shakespeare should have been a writer for Woody Allen. I dated a girl named Rose for a short while, and come to think of it, she did smell pretty sweet. I think in today's day and age there must be a good percentage of guitars bought sight unseen and unplayed thanks to the internet, and many of the internet buyers may think or desire, to buy into the legacy model specs, with an idea of what to expect, coming to the market well-armed with AGF type chatter and opinions. That being said, car manufacturers seem to change model specs yearly, but still keep the same model names - even though a Bellaire built today is very different than a Bellaire built in the early 60's.

[Jerry K]

I disagree, Bob (Rar). Martin has its iconic models like D-18 and D-28. Hummingbird should be similar. There should be some sort of implied credibility contract between Gibson and its customers which says if I ask for a J-45 you don't give me a Songwriter variation. Why? Because if J-45 means any guitar we feel like today (any body, any wood) then Gibson has no iconic models like Martin. There is an oozy, fluid lack of dependability about major aspects of the specs which really leaves you breathless and I doubt that is good for the brand.

[BigKahune]

What's in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet.

 

Here's the problem I see - - The plant family Rosaceae has about 2,830 species in 95 genera. And that's the road Gibson is headed down. That's what folks who want to have a comparative conversation about (to continue the example) Gibson Hummingbirds are faced with. First you have to sort out exactly which variations you're talking about.

 

Choice is good, but I wish there was some kind of reference to consult when you're trying to sort out info on some variation or other. With Gibson continuing to keep its serials records private there's no help there. It's kind of like the serial number debacle of the the 60s and 70s - all those reused serial numbers makes it difficult to sort out some guitars - you have to consult "experts" with pictures in hand.

 

 

.

[E-minor7]

"Okay, what is the difference between the long scaled maple Hummingbird and the Dove then," the more conscious customer would ask and the salesman would go, "huuuuh, , , , ?? the colour and the guard, I presume."

The conscious customer would try again, "Are there bracing differences ?"

 

And the salesman would say, " I don't really know, I'm a salesman and we salesmen – to tell you truth – haven't got a clue about bracing."

 

"Aha," the customer would continue, "I seem to be without compass here - are there clues or systems to rely on regarding these guitars ?"

 

"Not really, , , it's all one big mixed salad bowl now and you can either see that as an anarchistic charm in our totally checked modern day and age or as a lost culture."

 

"So Gibsons are like a game of chess where the tower now does the horse-jump and the pawn switch to bishop when feeling like it ?"

 

"Something like that, but black is still black, white is still white. If you call for a J-200 we ain't gonna present you a J-45."

 

"At least that is rather reassuring – what do you recommend. . . "

 

"I recommend you go by ear and forget about being too systematical."

 

"Mmmmm, actually I had an ambition of developing some kind of expertize regarding these acoustics."

 

"Understandable, but then you challenge yourself beyond common limits."

 

"But I'm ready to be challenged. . . "

 

"You can only cultivate this field to certain degree – the rest will have to remain autonomic. That's the nature of these wonders, , in a way like it always was."

 

"Even in 2013, , , !?"

 

"You heard me."

 

"I did – now I wanna hear some acoustic guitars. . "

"Feel free, look around, , , not many left though. . . "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GDC]

Maybe they should just give out secret decoder rings.

[onewilyfool]

I know a guy who had a J-200 standards "custom".......it was basically a J-200 BUT, it had a plain pick guard instead of the engraved pick guard that usually comes with the standard J-200. That's all...the pick guard

was different, and that got the Gibson "custom" decal on the back of the headstock....point is, it doesn't take much to make a Gibson a custom. I'm with Rar, if you like the look and sound of the guitar, just get it!!! Kind of like a Labrdoodle puppy, not pedigree, but still a great dog!!!

[fortyearspickn]

I agree with the insights provided by you all. Great topic, Buc!

I think the GC Hummingbird Pro is the only one that offends my sense of propriety. Otherwise, someone with enough money with a desire to buy an iconic model should become an educated consumer at least to the point that they know the body shape, tonewood and scale. If they want. J45 and wind up with a maple dreadnought, shame on them. If they are smarter than the average bear and get a "real" J45, but wind up with a rosewood fingerboard, but wanted ebony, they probably will be smart enough to recognize the fact they weren't paying attention and should have realized it was a custom they were looking for. Water seeks its own level.

[Buc McMaster]

Good discussion. While I don't discount the beauty, quality nor acoustic tone of Gibson hybrids, the seemingly endless variations do seem to cloud the water a bit. As has been mentioned, Martin for one has model standards that pretty much remain constant over the years, which imparts some sense of purity to their line......an undiluted tradition. When they deviate from the standard build there is little or no confusion about the new model...........they don't build a rosewood backed dreadnaught with dot markers on the fingerboard, tortoise binding and call it a D-18 Rosewood Custom. Building material variations of standard models is fine and demonstrates the willingness to experiment that Gibson is noted for. I'm certain they are all built with the same care that the traditional versions are. But when someone says I bought a Gibson Hummingbird I immediately picture an instrument with the original materials and appointments of the model: a short scale, square shouldered mahogany guitar with parallelogram inlays and the iconic pickguard. Nothing wrong with changing the specs.......but it's not the traditional Hummingbird any longer if it's maple backed and, to my way of thinking, should no longer bear the name, even if it's hyphenated with "Custom" or "Legend" or "Limited Edition". If someone wants a Hummingbird with a rosewood back, Alamo inlays and gold hardware I say fine - Gibson will build it for them. But to build such a wide range of variations on a theme as production instruments and still call them Hummingbirds cheapens the tradition of the original spec for the model. Others may well disagree and I accept that...........each of us bring our own perceptions to the table.

[BluesKing777]

Maybe they could put the specs on the label and on the serial number stamp with the code mentioned .....be good for eBay buyers to double check and refer to on forums in the future. Otherwise, it is going to be a bit tricky.

 

I tend to go for the fairly standard guitars, probably because they have been hard for me to get and I don't want to get the wrong one. Once you have a nice set of base model guitars, you can branch out to a few weirdos and it is not as drastic - first world problem, I know!

 

A friend and I agreed that we prefer cars and guitars with simple names and preferably a few numbers! The author Bill Bryson likes to hang it on the cars with lots of names, like the Toyota Camry Executive Mumbo Special 429a-ZZZ......Bill liked making up new names for them like the Toyota 'TryHard" or the Ford Fungus Fooled Ya! etc, etc.......

 

So I like the name Gibson J45 or Gibson L-00, not much with the LG2 (3???) American Eagle thing. Martin D18 or D45 etc, but those performing things GPACDEFSC or whatever they are, well.....

 

 

BluesKing777.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[E-minor7]

Hahe, , , that video brought a smile on my face - and came with rather good timing.

Here is a real Hummingbird, which again is kind of unreal and only out in Japan, , , until of course, it came out elsewhere too.

 

But listen - it sounds so good.

Had to put on cans even for those few strums - as I alway do when listening on the pc - and what rich deep mellow sweet projecting voice.

In fact it's pretty close to mine - I even dig the ebony/gold theme.

[MissouriPicker]

A "real" Hummingbird! Incredible. It definitely has the depth and warmth of mahogany. Not the rumble of rosewood or the brightness of maple. I don't care for the color. Not drawn to the blond Hummingbird either. I prefer some kind of burst, BUT, so long as the legendary specifications, appointments, and the mahogany are there, it would work for me.

 

Calling so many new models "Hummingbird" is a marketing tool (and a good one). It's easy to see why Gibson does this. These new models are very high quality instruments, but as far as them being Hummingbirds goes, that part will always be debatable. I know it and I suspect practically everyone here knows it also. Again, we're not talking about the quality of an instrument. The fact that these are superb guitars is not even open for discussion. They are top-of-the-line instruments. The question is whither or not they are what "Hummingbird" has represented for decades to the guitar-buying public.......Just how was a Hummingbird described for decades before all of these hybrids came along? Aside from a minute handful of different tone woods, Hummingbirds are mahogany. Read all the Gibson literature. They are mahogany, for decades and decades. Right at fifty years now. For me, if it's maple, then maybe it's more like a Dove...........And I agree with all the sentiment revolving around playing the guitar you like. Certainly, that's a major criteria. However, when I looked for my Hummingbird, I wasn't looking for a maple or another rosewood guitar. I was looking for a mahogany dread and I knew the "the bird" was a mahogany dread. Had it been maple, I would have considered something else.........I think this is nothing more than smart advertising, and if it helps keep Gibson afloat in the business, I agree with it. I want Gibson to do well. I have none of the angst or anger for Gibson that is often displayed on other forums. I just think they've diluted the iconic name "Hummingbird." I'm a stickler on tradition and what works. It's probably an age thing. I hate seeing legends diminished and sometimes destroyed. To some, none of that matters, because sometimes it really is time to let something go and move-on. I'm not saying one way is right and another is wrong, but I do think it's kind of sad............And as far as cars are concerned, I personally feel that guitars are a far-more human link to who I am than any car I've ever owned. The dog comparison doesn't work well either. For some folks, only a real Lab will do. Doesn't mean a half-Lab etc is not a sweet and loving dog. Just means that some folks what to own something that is likely to be very much as they expect it to be. No doubt it's all good, just some things are a bit better than others for some folks.

I just hope they never come out with The Sponge Bob Hummingbird.

[Jerry K]

How about the poor kid who tells mom and pop he wants a J-45 for his birthday, they visit some big box place and on the appointed day he breathlessly opens the case and..... What?!!!!!

 

:unsure:

[retrorod]

There is 'no telling' what re-incarnation' he might recieve.... ...Perhaps the balsa-wood copy of the' true vintage'...that used to be Made in Bozeman but now made in Taipai...but is true to the original other than....Blah....blah....blah...40 variations of the J45...I swear it....Count them!

 

Too me, Gibson is only cheapening themselves with all this nonsense. A "big Box" merchandising mentality like Walmart !

Although, one cannot argue with their success!

[Jerry K]

There is 'no telling' what re-incarnation' he might recieve.... ...Perhaps the balsa-wood copy of the' true vintage'...that used to be Made in Bozeman but now made in Taipai...but is true to the original other than....Blah....blah....blah...40 variations of the J45...I swear it....Count them!

 

If it's the right shape and scale length and just some wood or cosmetic variation ok, the kid got a j-45. (Hogeye won't even go that far - he scoffs at a rosewood j-45). But what if it is rosewood and in the shape of a songwriter? I think there was some model like that. That would get you blinking when you opened the case.

 

And there was a similar hummingbird model which had absolutely nothing to do with the original square shouldered mahogany dread.

 

I appeal to you, Gibson acoustic. Think of the kids!

[blindboygrunt]

How about the poor kid who tells mom and pop he wants a J-45 for his birthday, they visit some big box place and on the appointed day he breathlessly opens the case and..... What?!!!!!

 

:unsure:

 

Serve the spoilt little brat right !

 

A j45 for a birthday indeed ! Ha!