brundaddy Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-straits-final-concert-beats-710099 George Strait beat the Rolling Stones's attendance record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Bill Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 A fitting way for George to "go out"...third in all time record sales behind Elvis and The Beatles...thats saying a lot. That makes him the #1 selling country artist of all time...take that Garth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I think we're kinda talking different games at the same time in this thread. There's 1) Current artists, the younger generation of which often are much lesser known; 2) What "we" might do if we actually wanna make money and have fun in saloon gigs. Given some changes in culture, I think in general that around here at least a 50s rock and "known" country combination will generally make money. I know a cupla bands that functionally are the same folks who use different names for their 50s-70s rock and "classic country" gigs. I look back at Johnny Cash and the Tennessee Three, and functionally the musical skills just really ain't there. OTOH, more than a few of those tunes are played over and over in saloons every weekend. Why? I think precisely because they are uncomplicated. Although I was ignored a lot, I kept telling some '60s and '70s guitar students of mine to remember their roots. Perfect timing and simplicity always will sell. It may not boost one's own ego - a personal musical weakness of mine as a fingerpicker - but it sells a lot better in a saloon. I'll never forget how I got a lot more positive response during a band disaster playing one AE guitar and me singing Me and Bobby McGee than I get playing Last Steam Engine Train with at least a degree of skill... As for George... this is one I'm working on too - and George Strait is a lot younger than I am. Gotta admit I OD on this one... but... given my age, it kinda fits out here in rodeo country. He11, sometimes it hits so close to home it doggone near makes it impossible to make it through the lyric. m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHxrqiU1120 BTW, Chris Ledoux actually recorded Amarillo by Morning first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 while everyone has their personal taste and opinions, i think what the thread started out was pointing out how generic and "formula / cookie cutter" a lot of what they call new country is today. and the same can be said for what they pass off as R&B, and Pop music. More emphasis on production and choreography, than song content. But when its all said & done, if its good, its good. if it ain't, it ain't. and while thats subjective, we all can recognize when something is superficial and just manufactured to meet the current demand. I love country music, but im not a fan of alot of the new stuff. I love R&B, but i hate all the Lady Gaga's and artists of that ilk. I love R&R, but I was never a fan of the Hair Metal of the 80's, with all the primping and posturing. BUT ! within all those genres, from time to time a song pops up that you can't help but admit is good. It's easy to just make a broad sweeping statement of "this sucks". god knows I do all the time. just my 2 cents worth. makes for interesting reading of posts ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Perfect timing and simplicity always will sell... a lot better in a saloon. I'll never forget how I got a lot more positive response during a band disaster playing one AE guitar and me singing Me and Bobby McGee than I get playing Last Steam Engine Train with at least a degree of skill... This is it! Well said, Milo. In my own trio we often pull off something subtle and complex and get crickets chirping, while the simple three chord stuff gets ovations! Frustrating, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Most often it's our own ego that gets into the way of performance - and not <grin> just in music. "We" are a bit "different" because we are music creators of various talents and skills, inclinations and opinions informed by our own histories. But our audiences ain't quite like that, even if they're musicians of greater skill and talent. Audiences are buoyed by identifying with whatever it is might be playing on stage. I personally don't care much for "Oom-pah" music, but some decades ago I'd at times pick along with an Oom-pah band and see the crowd loving it. In fact, in the right circumstances, even rockers and folkies can get into it. So... one needs at times to ask why this and why that... Life's interesting. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is it! Well said, Milo. In my own trio we often pull off something subtle and complex and get crickets chirping, while the simple three chord stuff gets ovations! Frustrating, but true. KISS (Keep It Simple, Silly), is the formula. The audience, by and large, is not made up, of musicians. So, as brilliant as our attempts at more subtle, and complicated arrangements, and songs might be, that is very often totally lost, on the audience/dancers. Good beat, good strong "hook," and they're with you! It may be "Dylan" at home, but it's Deep Purple or Ozzy, or the "Country" music equals, etc., on the dance floor! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The country saloon set, even the "kids," in ways are musically closer to their parents in their 40s and 50s than they are to their city peers - so a lotta older country sells pretty well. Where I am, most of the saloon music crowd is made up of a 20s up to 50 couples of various sorts - and divorced folks who might be interested in being part of a couple. So figure what's likely to sell from that. Then play it and get paid. <grin> Oh - and I always figured you do best by ending the night with a cupla tummy-rubbin' songs... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Once again it is like discussing the "who is best guitarist question". There is no right or wrong answer and can't be proven. There are only 2 types of music. Music you like and music you don't like. And it goes for everything, food, movies, guitars, cars,TV shows, ect . You like something or you don't. It is just something to discuss and argue over. Why did you feel the need to let people know you stay of out gay bars? Not relevant to the topic at all. Was it mentioned and I missed the joke? Yup, they's a joke in thar. It was directed at those who, feel compelled, to not only dislike Country Music, but to proclaim to the world that it is disgustingly horrible. But if'n you didn't git it, you didn't miss much. So, I'll just let it lie. .. lay?... I'll jus' let it be. Let it be, let it be-e, let it be-e-e..." But I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Rascal Flatts, was the group that caused me to first admit to myself that "country music" was being subverted. They are not really "country", but that is where the industry stuck them. That led to FL/GA Line and similar groups we have now. There was a period when every other male singer on the radio didn't sing. He whined. I gave up on radio at that point. George and Alan had a song "Murder on Music Row" that said it best. Not surprisingly, didn't get much air time. I'm guessing, after reading every comment thus far, the reason for this is economics. Yes, obviously, the almighty dollar and profit. But, it is cheaper to mass produce one Rascall Flatts album than ten different albums from ten different artists accounting for the same number of sales at the same retail prices. The record company can get a lower unit cost one one artist group. So, whether it is teenagers, adults over 40 who have more disposable income, males, females... I think it isn't as much demographics per se. It is easier and cheaper to market to the younger fans. They are still developing their musical tastes and think "I Should Have Been A Cowboy" is a classic. As we get older, we branch out, buy some blues, buy some bluegrass, buy different artists, etc. Younger customers are more simple in their tastes. They like it when they all know the words to a song on the radio and can sing along. This is just an evolution of what started when records began to be mass produced. iTunes just elevated it to a new level, just like VHS did for the movie industry. George Strait and Tim McGraw have to draw a line in the sand not to go over to "The Dark Side" of popular music, every time they choose a song for a new album. As our parents asked us when we were children, "Do you want to be Popular or do you want to be Right?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 'Been thinkin' about the "don't go into gay bars" thing, especially I'm in the heaviest part of "rodeo season" where I live literally in some of the world's more sparsely-populated "cowboy country." Without any commentary on "values" as such, I do think there are some huge regional cultural prejudices all over the U.S. The likely "culture" in a gay bar, from what I've heard and seen, is not "country," but "urban." That is almost guaranteed to bring a different music than a generalized "country" book for a band that probably will include known tunes from the 1950s up to current. That's not to say there aren't "gay" cowboys - just that if they wish to keep being cowboys in cowboy country, they've also maintained the majority of a cowboy culture which includes variations of "country" music. Odds are, for example, "gay" cowboys would be quite unlikely to be vegan. That in my opinion is far more likely to get them shunned than a lotta other behaviors. I think we have two questions to the original point of the thread: 1. what is country music and who tends to appreciate it, and... 2. who tends not to appreciate country music by definition whether they've heard much or it or not - and has the definition of country music changed to the point where those who have appreciated it in the past, feel that the genre has moved away from them. The dialog here tends IMHO to mostly be in response to #2. Question #1 has more to do with "style" and audience culture. I listen to a lotta 50s and 60s "country" and truly, it adopted an awful lot of "pop" and "jazz" both in the actual music/progressions and instrumentation. Look at a lotta old Willie Nelson-written stuff and... Honestly, at times I tend to think country music is more defined by intelligibility of lyric and a tune/arrangement vehicle that sells to a large audience - and the lesser variations actually follow that theme, but with arrangement vehicles that may appeal to lesser audiences. Also... I think it's almost inevitable that more urban "taste" is going to have increasing impact, but as much as jazz chords and arrangements of the 50s? I dunno. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 George Strait and Tim McGraw have to draw a line in the sand not to go over to "The Dark Side" of popular music, every time they choose a song for a new album. As our parents asked us when we were children, "Do you want to be Popular or do you want to be Right?" I realize it breaks a lot of bawlz to say this, but if you can listen to George Strait and not hear the grandpappy of all pop country music today, you have madd ear skills. Every male "country" star has copped every George Strait vocalization directly ever since George Strait mythically led "country" back to Country in the 80's! Tim McGraw is about as far over the line into the Dark Side of new country pop as you can get. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Tim McGraw is about as far over the line into the Dark Side of new country pop as you can get. Yep. And I have a story about that. I taught in a rural school when Tim McGraw first came on country radio. These were real farm kids who literally came to class with cow sh!t on their shoes. They made fun of McGraw's first single "Indian Outlaw" for about two weeks. Then the tide turned. Lo and behold, by the end of the month they loved it. What happened? Did it get better? No! Radio wore them down. Repetition won them over. To me that marked the end of quality country - at least on the radio. Gotta go underground to get the good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I apologize and agree. I had a momentary attack of insanity to credit TIm McGraw with being real country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Yep. And I have a story about that. I taught in a rural school when Tim McGraw first came on country radio. These were real farm kids who literally came to class with cow sh!t on their shoes. They made fun of McGraw's first single "Indian Outlaw" for about two weeks. Then the tide turned. Lo and behold, by the end of the month they loved it. What happened? Did it get better? No! Radio wore them down. Repetition won them over. To me that marked the end of quality country - at least on the radio. Gotta go underground to get the good stuff. And WHO wears a "Plastic" (looking, anyway) Cowboy Hat?!! :unsure: CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well... in my territory it's time for the annual shift from felt to straw - but believe it or not even some "name brand" hats supposedly of "straw" actually are some sort of paper product. What a world we live in. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 oooh, Snakeskin Cowboys, who the hell you think you are, prancin' around in your paper product hats..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 1403606110[/url]' post='1533574']oooh, Snakeskin Cowboys, who the hell you think you are, prancin' around in your paper product hats..... It's part of their costume, the image they want to cultivate. Same as the holes in the jeans, the cutoff shirtsleeves and the trucker wallet chains. Some don't even bother trying with western hats or boots. Some wear knit stocking hats. It's the age of costume diversity.Not any different than the ones who use their acoustic guitar as part of the costume. Must be hard trying to accessorize when you only have mahogany, rosewood or Koa to choose from. It's hard to accept the music isn't plastic, if the hat is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Yep. And I have a story about that. I taught in a rural school when Tim McGraw first came on country radio. These were real farm kids who literally came to class with cow sh!t on their shoes. They made fun of McGraw's first single "Indian Outlaw" for about two weeks. Then the tide turned. Lo and behold, by the end of the month they loved it. What happened? Did it get better? No! Radio wore them down. Repetition won them over. To me that marked the end of quality country - at least on the radio. Gotta go underground to get the good stuff. I have to give him some props though. I was in Monroe Louisiana, pronounced "MUNroloosanuh" for a couple weeks one month long ago, at least 15 years now. We were fixing up a system and had some delays so had to just kill a couple extra days, which we were pretty good at. So we went pawn shopping and stuff, ended up drinking at a fine establishment that had a floor. Young persons were hooking up and then they start with the "oooooh...Tim McGraw next week..." stuff. Turns out, he was coming to town for a festival of some sort, had to play on big flatbeds outdoors, like a lot of us here have but probably nicer stuff, and a nicer set of tents out back, that sort of thing. A few other acts too but I don't remember who. There was a lot adjacent to the fairgrounds, and it was decided by the owner to park the cars for the fair right there, which was actually a giant bonus for everyone, because they could literally walk a hunnert feet from their car to get into the fairgrounds so everyone was happy. Then, the owner(s) of the land started hinting at some parking costs, then at some tiered type ideas, like 25 dollars to park out in the far reaches for half a day, only 40 for the whole day, and maybe as much as a hundred for a half day up front, only 150 for the whole day. This had apparently gone on for quite some time? I don't know how long, but it had made quite a sore spot in the community. Seems Mr. McGraw heard of this, bought the property, had them park the cars their for free for the fair, left town after the festival and gave the land free and clear to the fairgrounds peoples as long as they continued to just use it for free parking. It all that was true, it was a good thing to do, no matter what any of us thinks of new country! rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 RE: Snakeskin boots and "paper" hats. Never had snakeskin boots 'cuz they'd be harder to clean when I do, actually, get green mud on my boots. As for the "paper" hats, I got a nice Bailey "straw" from the local boot and whatever-western purveyor and didn't realize what the damned thing was made up until my wife and I were talking about what kinda straw it was. Dug around a bit and ... sheesh, it looked like a straw, cost like a decent straw but... nope, 'twas paper except for the sweatband. OTOH, I'm not sure that's worse than a made to order set of boots I bought in Seoul maybe 25 years ago. I figured a hand-made set would be pretty nice. Nope. Their idea of a set of buckaroo boots (great in winter around here) were basically English-style riding boots with a bit more heel and no spur ridge at all. City folk... sheesh. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well... in my territory it's time for the annual shift from felt to straw Always straw weather down here. Only one's wearing felt hats are state troopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Surf... Ain't gonna wear a straw at -30F. Not at 40F either. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 RE: Snakeskin boots and "paper" hats. ... harder to clean when I do, actually, get green mud on my boots. ... m "green mud" ... Never heard it called that but it fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Too Many "pigeon holes" in music today. A long time back there was Classical and Popular. Then came Jazz, Country, and Rock & Roll. Nowadays when you go to a music site the first thing you have to do is pick a "Genre". They used to be called "categories". How may genres of Rock are there? Alternative, Fusion, Grunge, Independent, Metal, Progressive, and so on. There must be 30-40 genres or more altogether! It is so ridiculous. Groups that were considered Rock in the 70s would be considered Country today. Acts like Barefoot Jerry, Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show, Outlaws, America, early Eagles, etc., would be quite tame by today's standards. Vince Gill was once in group called Pure Prairie League and even though their music had a mostly Country sound they were classified as Rock. "Ring Of Fire", mentioned earlier was more Mariachi than Jazz. Marty Robbins and Tex and others brought that influence with them and it helped Country grow. Country has simply diversified in order to stay alive in today's market, which bears its own negative connotations, as mentioned aptly in numerous posts previous to this one. One basic truth with Country Music is that one can get away with a lot more than possibly in other genres. A lot of the writing really does suck. The major preference in "Today's Hot Country" is for "the hook" rather than a well crafted song. It is also very Music Video oriented. They will get away with it as long as the audience gobbles up what the producers keep putting out. Much of it will be the same as our old TVs and refrigerators in years to come. I must take up for Clint Black as his "Put Yourself In My Shoes" is one of the best songs ever! To me there have always been two kinds of music: good music... and not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Tommy... Last full rodeo today here. You're right about the appropriateness of the term "green mud." Then too, there are the road apples. And seriously, year-round, it's common for folks to have spurs on their boots when then stop for chow or a drink. It's a type of "country" that frankly I think most "farm" states don't quite get, let alone city folks. That's a matter of culture, but I'm convinced that although most live music around here is played by full or part time folks who live in a town, the effect of a much more sparse population density plays a huge role in what stuff "sells." As I've suggested before, listen to the late Chris Ledouox material and it'll offer a clue that even if there's an increasing urban/rock ingredient, the independent streak of rural/frontier folk brings a much different flavor to music that a virtually identical "style" of a band with an urban cultural base. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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