Detroit.....

[Murph]

Awesome video of some bikes riding around Detroit. Sad, but cool.

 

[daveinspain]

That video is so sad... Looks like a scene from a scene fiction movie of derelict cities in the future after devastating wars or epidemics have wiped out society... Hard to believe this is the reality of today of what was once a great American city...

[vacamartin]

It's surreal for me, as a Detroit ex-patriot. I left in 1971 just as the decay was setting in from the decades of political and business corruption. Another good video to see is from the CNN channel..."Anthony Bourdain...Detroit"........the one line that seared in my mind is this.... "The only place in the world I have been to that resembles Detroit is CHERNOBYL"

[Big Bill]

I was born and raised there. Left in 1986, I have no desire to return. I live in New Jersey now, this shows you how bad Detroit really is.

[Searcy]

I found the solution.

 

 

[milod]

I'd just say they're lucky nobody had a mechanical or tire failure - and were it to have happened, they were in a group.

 

m

[jannusguy2]

Disgraceful.

[milod]

Donny...

 

Don't take this as "argument," because I think you're at least 50 percent correct on this point.

 

OTOH, the circumstances that lead to outsourcing deserve a fair share of "credit" or "blame" as well.

 

For example, in 1975 ag trade with Europe was important enough that my small newspaper at the time sent me there for five weeks to do a series on just how important.

 

Today? That trade approaches nil. In fact, one might make a case that nothing to be done by local farmers and ranchers might have changed things, neither less stringent government regs nor anything else. As a German trade minister told me, if an American/Canadian farmer or rancher goes out of business, he stays there and is no problem for Germany; but if one in eastern Europe goes broke, he's likely to haul his family into the German welfare state, and that would be a problem.

 

Manufacturing, however, is affected by a myriad of circumstances, both global economics and local pressures from regulation, unions and tax structures along with the games corporations play to survive.

 

If one were to refuse to purchase anything but a North American-made television or radio or all-N.A. electronics of any sort, we'd have little communication. The "why" largely is the same set of circumstances that have affected all North American manufacturing.

 

I was surprised back in '75 when German trade union leaders boasted of helping their companies make more money both short and long-term than the corporate sales staff folks did, while at the same time the unions provided or contracted for worker benefits. I've never heard a U.S. labor union make the same claims. Why? I personally think it's largely that the Germans were looking a more long-term futures for their workers and the Americans more at the short term union and worker bank accounts.

 

It's also interesting that one hears increasingly from both U.S. political right and left that some mechanism is needed to return offshore-held funds by multi-nationals based in the U.S. without the sort of taxation punishment that would entirely send them "overseas."

 

m

[Searcy]

This is the results of out sourcing our work. This is why I won't buy import cars or guitars. The rot has only begun.

 

Exactly! This is why I only run 100% pure New England whale oil and spermaceti candles in my home. Without us to support the whaling industry all of New England would crumble into the same decay as Detriot has done!!

 

 

 

[milod]

And Martin.

 

But... One might suggest a parallel to that German ag minister's comment and NAFTA.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's far from perfect, but...

 

Edit... I'm also happier wearing Wranglers made in north America than ... where are Levis made?

 

http://www.levistrauss.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Levi-Strauss-Co-Factory-List-December-2014-Revised.pdf

 

m

[Searcy]

So if these companies have cashed in and left the American autoworker high and dry why do I owe them anything? They got enough of my tax money a few years ago being too big to fail at all.

 

And if the people of Detroit want to keep electing leaders the drive there lifeblood industry away but I guess they need to learn how to adapt to the changing times like the people of New England did in the middle 1800s.

[Searcy]

It doesn't stop there Searcy, the rot is all around you. Look at all the forclosed houses and business buildings for lease.

 

You haven't been to Nashville lately have you? :)

[milod]

Mine are still made in mexico of U.S. fabric - at least according to the label.

 

m

[milod]

Problem with a lotta this stuff is that US costs - which include taxes and regulation and the folks to figure it out - got outa hand compared to other countries. Even Ross's comments are way too simplistic, and written for political slogans. The U.S. was outa control long before NAFTA.

 

That's not really a political statement because there are so many variables involved. But the bottom line remains the bottom line and the US and to a large extent Canada are affected by it more than a lotta places.

 

Here's the deal as it started: After WWII there weren't many factories left in western Europe, Japan, China, etc., and those in Eastern Europe were run by the government and folks given no real reason to do well.

 

So... new factories with new technologies, new concepts arose. they tended by the mid 1970s to be generally more efficient than U.S. factories.

 

In low-tech manufacturing, such as clothing, etc., countries with lower labor costs tended to be "the" places to be.

 

I remember when it was not a joke that one might find an American beer logo on the inside of low-cost Japanese metal items.

 

Meanwhile, in the U.S. things went well until increases in costs with sometimes questionable workmanship helped bring in "foreign" manufactured items as overseas manufacturing plants, logistics, etc., began to match or often surpass U.S. goods in either quality of some consumer perception of "good."

 

But nobody wanted to see the handwriting on the wall that, by the mid 1970s, brought corporations to consider that they were in a relatively hostile environment and many, if not most, were involved in looking into more profitable operations outside the U.S., if they hadn't already begin to move offshore. Yeah, that didn't happen in Russia and North Korea. No corporate problems there at all.

 

Since then it appears to me that economies are far more global than 200 years ago - and even then, an economic sneeze in Europe or America passed on an economic cold to the other side of the pond. That dates back actually to the "panic of 1797" when problems in the U.K. led to a recession in the U.S. Lots of political "solutions" have been attempted since then, but... economics historians and politicians have to figure that there are consequences to "political" solutions that often are horridly counterproductive. In fact, one might make a case that as far back as 1785, trade restrictions elsewhere also damaged U.S. economic interests - and long-term did little for the Brits, either, who were involved on their side of things after the "American Revolution."

 

Yes, things change, but so do the winds if you're at sea in a three-master. My criticism of what I see overall is that we've entered an era when businesses too often seem to be in the business of business 'stedda the business of creating wealth by creation of added value to products, not just messing with money back and forth.

 

And the difficulty is that frankly, it's gotten so complex that it's far too easy to demagogue simple solutions that ain't solutions at all, but can sound pretty good and make for good slogans.

 

m

[milod]

Almost no Focus vehicles sold around where I live. They're seen as deathtraps. The 150 ain't.

 

Edit... wintertime death traps in wide-open country with few paved roads.

 

m

[vacamartin]

Many valid points discussed here! One to consider is this....Along the entire Great Manufacturing Rust Belt, from Buffalo to New Jersey, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburg, etc., the decay is not reversible because the heart of this once mighty industrial Nation is dead>Manufacturing! A new era is struggling to build back what has been left to rot. The sad reality is the growth will not over come the loss of bricks and mortar based jobs, with minimal education, and union based jobs with pensions and health care. The reality of "Now" is in front of us, from out sourced jobs to Govt. assistance draining our GNP. It is not the vision that my parents had, or my grandparents when they came thru Ellis Island to build this mighty industrial war machine. Keep the faith and work hard at what you can to make ends meet...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Searcy]

i have been and seen all over the United States there is an increasing number of Mom & Pop shops going belly up along with vacant foreclosed house

 

Make up your mind. Are we talking about mom and pop shops or maga massive and bloted car companies or people who bought more house than they could afford?

[milod]

Yeah, it's a different world.

 

But... I also recall being horridly jealous of my little brother, who's only five years younger than I am, with the variations of kid toys that simply didn't exist when I was 5-8 years old, at least not anywhere my folks could find them in the six-eight after WWII. By '55 it was pretty much different and even I got some neat stuff.

 

The problem as I see it is that current economic conditions and current U.S. responses to them are, yes, damaging the economy because it's the same "bread and circuses" theory that failed for the Romans. They had a working class belief that they were entitled to a good standard of living whether they worked or not, and the government supplied it for them until... the bottom fell out and Rome lost its soul and everything else.

 

Frankly I think we're living in an economic bubble that offers theoretical value to stuff that ain't, and that means that folks aren't willing to work in that sort of economy.

 

We'll see. But as long as voters demand more cash for the nonproductive segments of society, the worse it'll get. At a somewhat different scale, I'd say we're in worse shape than during the 1930s depression in terms of real unemployment - and of any hope of reemployment of many unless something horrid happens and it back to root hog or die.

 

Will Rogers back around '32 noted in a number of variations that, "We hold the distinction of being the only nation in the history of the world that went to the poor-house in an automobile."

 

Today it's "with our smart-phone for texting our facebook friends where we're going."

 

m

[Blueblooded]

It's unfortunate that most all of what people see in the media about Detroit is negative. Yes, there are lots of square miles of land that look like war zones. There are also a lot of old factories and buildings that have been evacuated years ago. The "city" of Detroit is spread out over a huge area and lots of the old neighborhoods where the houses and buildings have been cleared look more like forests now than city land. But there are also a lot of really nice areas and also a resurgence of people, businesses and companies are moving back to the city. Most of it is in the downtown area. The greater metro-Detroit area is really nice to live in and Michigan is a beautiful State overall.

 

Searcy - one of the three US auto companies didn't take your tax money.

[Hall]

Awesome video of some bikes riding around Detroit. Sad, but cool.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPIIlbkDQL0

[/q

 

 

Stir it, Murph!

[Searcy]

[quote name='Blueblooded' timestamp='1419868328' post='1608012'

 

Searcy - one of the three US auto companies didn't take your tax money.

 

Ford CEO Alan R. Mulally and the UAW lobbied Congress for the bailout on behalf of GM and Crystler and secured a 9 billion dollar tax payer funded line of credit just in case thay decided they needed it. In 2009 they took 6 billion dollars in tax payer funded loans to retool factories and then lobbied to pass the cash for clunkers bill that decamated the used car market and drove the price of used cars through the roof.

 

But no. They didn't take a bailout.

[vacamartin]

It's unfortunate that most all of what people see in the media about Detroit is negative. But there are also a lot of really nice areas and also a resurgence of people, businesses and companies are moving back to the city. Most of it is in the downtown area. The greater metro-Detroit area is really nice to live in and Michigan is a beautiful State overall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is good to hear! Once outside of the Detroit area, the open vistas are terrific...especially my favorite> Copper Harbor[thumbup]

[rct]

That is good to hear! Once outside of the Detroit area, the open vistas are terrific...especially my favorite> Copper Harbor

 

And the boat to Isle Royale National Park!

 

rct

[Drog]

Detroit is a mess, very sad. They should tear down some of these areas though. This is what happens when all the eggs go in one basket/industry. I feel bad for those that remain in that city. Its crazy to think of a city like this filing for bankruptcy.

[Drog]

It's unfortunate that most all of what people see in the media about Detroit is negative. Yes, there are lots of square miles of land that look like war zones. There are also a lot of old factories and buildings that have been evacuated years ago. The "city" of Detroit is spread out over a huge area and lots of the old neighborhoods where the houses and buildings have been cleared look more like forests now than city land. But there are also a lot of really nice areas and also a resurgence of people, businesses and companies are moving back to the city. Most of it is in the downtown area. The greater metro-Detroit area is really nice to live in and Michigan is a beautiful State overall.

 

Searcy - one of the three US auto companies didn't take your tax money.

 

Hope it gets turned around. We need those Red Wings. I would think there is a lot of opportunity for businesses to move in and with good property value.