blindboygrunt Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ive posted before regarding this. But maybe some new info can be got this time Bluesking suggests I invest in a Neumann mic . It's not that I haven't thought of it before . Both his and em7's recordings on soundcloud are a cut above the norm , in my opinion. Now I know that they aren't short on skill and ability that I may lack , but there's a warmth to the songs that I don't seem to be able to match . Sal has nice recordings , but I know what he uses . Kwalker and Lars , yours sounds a little better than mine , do you do two tracks ? I ha e sm58 into a lexicon alpha interface . One mic situated between the guitar and my face . Onto a pc , with a little reverb and a slight eq done just to plaster over my cracks. https://soundcloud.com/islandmageestu/far-from-me-2 This is the latest , I'm sure you will all agree it could do with more warmth . Thanks people's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Grunt, I have no experience with the high end mics. I can say that the Apogee MiC, and even more simply - the Shure MV5 (I just got it), sound great if you are recording using an iPhone or iPad. In Garageband you can add compression, reverb, and some other simple effects should you like. Having said this, your recording above sounds equal in quality to my USB mics for sure. It sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Yeah sal. My recordings are ok , and probably fine for all I'm doing , but I do enjoy the recording process and messing around . Makes practice a bit more interesting and certainly helps with hearing the faults and honing what little talent I have . But I am jealous of the great sound from bluesking and em7 . I'm fairly certain em7 said a while ago he uses a Neumann . Wonder if the wife will let me off paying into the house this month and let me go shopping instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa You will get 400 different answers! (I have the Apogee lying on its side gathering dust). Everyone here who plays acoustic guitar deserves to treat themselves a Neumann KM184! Invest in yourselves - especially as that is what everyone hears. The track below is what it is playing/singing, but the recording quality is probably what BBG means. I just used the one Neumann KM184 in about the middle of the space to the right between guitar and mouth to get both on one live mono track with a splash of reverb/delay. That's it - no eq etc. AS IS! https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/california7-2 BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 BBG, With all due respect - you have the talent to deserve recording equipment on par with your excellent abilities. I have zero talent, but convinced myself I deserved at least some good guitars. You have talent in spades and appear to have reached the point where you are uncomfortable with your equipment. A fix may not present itself in the short term, but set your sights on making it happen when you can. In the meantime, you should enjoy your abilities as much as we do! G'Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Neumanns are wonderful mics for certain, back in the 60s and 70s etc they were pretty much standard recording studio fare, and indeed still are. However it's worth bearing in mind that the quality of cheaper condenser mics has risen dramatically over recent years. I have been using Rode mics for a long time in my own home studio. Fully professional quality, and some of the lowest noise floors of any mic at any price. For the price of one Neumann, you could buy quite a few Rode (or other budget makes) condensers. If I had to give a bang for buck suggestion I would recommend the Rode NT1. It sounds great recording vocals and acoustic guitars, and has an extremely low noise floor It comes with a great shock mount and pop shield. I use this mic myself pretty much on a daily basis. (You could buy a couple for less than the cost of a Neumann and record your guitar beautifully using a stereo pair setup!) If you want to use high pass filters or change the mic pickup pattern, much like a Neumann U87, then the Rode NT2 has those extra features, though is a little more expensive. You are gonna need a decent sound card or mixing console with phantom power to use condensers of course, but there are many good ones available at reasonable cost that connect via usb or firewire etc. I use Cubase as my main DAW for recording, but there are plenty of very good free DAW softwares out there nowadays... Audacity and the like. Link to Rode NT1 on Amazon To give an idea, here's a link to a piece I recorded a few days ago using a Rode NT1, both my J45 (on stereo right) and the Dobro slide (on the left) were recorded with it. Americana 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Im not recording specialist but other than having good quality condenser mikes, placement of the actual mike is key. That has a lot of influence if you have a dark, deep tone or a more sparklier, liverlier tone. The other thing is multi tracking making sure all parts are recorded with optimum mike placement, and then the its the art of mixing the lot which is a skill in itself. Reckon Anne could chip in now that shes our recording guru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker201 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Grunt, the last few I have recorded was just on 1 track with a Shure beta 58 picking up vocals and guitar through garageband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Grunt, the last few I have recorded was just on 1 track with a Shure beta 58 picking up vocals and guitar through garageband. Ah , that's what I do ! Why does yours sound better than mine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 I've seen those Rhodes on the web while trying to find out what I'm doin , won't write them off . Thanks Aussie , mic placement is key for sure , but I'm only messing around in the dining room , and trying to find a one thing suits all solution , if you know what I mean. I could probably get a much better result of I record guitar with the mic at the twelfth fret and then do vocals afterwards etc , but I'm just a fan of BK and em's sound . And I'm beginning to think it's the Neumann mics BK certainly thinks the same ... and forty years - thanks ever so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker201 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ah , that's what I do ! Why does yours sound better than mine ? Ha, mine does not compare to yours. The only thing Im doing is running through a Yamaha mixer into garageband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I record using the Apogee mic straight into an Ipad with Garageband. I then add just a touch of reverb and compression, but very minor. I always record both vocal and guitar onto one track (my goal is to learn to play and sing at the same time, while staying on pitch. So I don't want to give myself any shortcuts). I place the mic in a height between guitar and mouth about three feet away, angled slightly towards my head. It works ok. The room makes a world of difference, I have noticed. I did a test recording in a completely empty room, no furniture, carpets, curtains or anything. Sounded like crap! Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 There are always a billion solutions to recording but my Neumann is hard to beat for what I, YMMV, that is me, I do. Solo acoustic fingerpicking/vocal. Now a short story.... I have always enjoyed recording and experimented with various claptrappers over the years, but when the Tascam Portastudio that recorded 4 tracks to a cassette were announced, well...aha! And it seems like the next day, I was at a friend's who just bought one! Green with envy, no money. A few years later, I bought the latest new improved Tascam cassette 4 track. And years later, the digital version with 8 tracks! I see now that I did things back to front - I used my live gig Shure SM57 for all the recording and always had trouble getting.....LEVEL. Other people happily used the SM57, but they various extra PREAMPS. What's that? They used to get a good signal and bump up the..yep, level. Meanwhile a friend from a band who had seen my Tascam cassette 4 track and his eyes lit up, had gone mad for recording and all its gadgetry. He died of cancer and left all his recording studio to me, but no recording room! 32 Track Tascam digital recording mixer with Mac tower, ProTools and other software, preamps, Tannoy monitors, assorted gadgets, miles of leads, stands, and........ half a dozen Shure SM57 mics, a stereo pair of Rode copies of my Neumann, about one dozen Rode NT1s, 2 Rode K2 transformer tube mics, another Rode tube mic..... Slight overkill for recording me, myself, I..... So after getting it all working and experimenting a bit, I gave most of it away to a friend who was recording an album. I think he sold it straight away to buy a keyboard.... So why do I relate this long winded business? Because I am back to saying the Neumann KM184 into GarageBand via a little 4 channel A&H mixer is wayyyyyy better, and way smaller than ALL that other stuff - for solo acoustic guitar/vocal. Me! My friend never lived to see GarageBand and how easy it can be, let alone iPads and phones.....he would have been delirious! And he was always raving about getting a Neumann exdyfixty something or other! Bingo! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker201 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 BK, I know that you prefer the 184, but that baby sells for $800. Do you have any experience with the Rode NT1. That sells for around $220 which is a little easier to justify just for home recordings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwalker201 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Neumanns are wonderful mics for certain, back in the 60s and 70s etc they were pretty much standard recording studio fare, and indeed still are. However it's worth bearing in mind that the quality of cheaper condenser mics has risen dramatically over recent years. I have been using Rode mics for a long time in my own home studio. Fully professional quality, and some of the lowest noise floors of any mic at any price. For the price of one Neumann, you could buy quite a few Rode (or other budget makes) condensers. If I had to give a bang for buck suggestion I would recommend the Rode NT1. It sounds great recording vocals and acoustic guitars, and has an extremely low noise floor It comes with a great shock mount and pop shield. I use this mic myself pretty much on a daily basis. (You could buy a couple for less than the cost of a Neumann and record your guitar beautifully using a stereo pair setup!) If you want to use high pass filters or change the mic pickup pattern, much like a Neumann U87, then the Rode NT2 has those extra features, though is a little more expensive. You are gonna need a decent sound card or mixing console with phantom power to use condensers of course, but there are many good ones available at reasonable cost that connect via usb or firewire etc. I use Cubase as my main DAW for recording, but there are plenty of very good free DAW softwares out there nowadays... Audacity and the like. Link to Rode NT1 on Amazon To give an idea, here's a link to a piece I recorded a few days ago using a Rode NT1, both my J45 (on stereo right) and the Dobro slide (on the left) were recorded with it. Americana 1 That sounded amazing. Thank for posting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Blindboy, that's a really sweet recording. I don't know that several hundred dollars is going to gain much for you over the Shure 58. The recording sounds very real to me. Like you're singing in an empty bar, no electronics and your voice/guitar are just barely echoing in the quiet. Pretty cool sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 BK, I know that you prefer the 184, but that baby sells for $800. Do you have any experience with the Rode NT1. That sells for around $220 which is a little easier to justify just for home recordings I had my own NT1 and was left a dozen more NT1s - in my post above - ok but I had to spend a lot of time on the eq and never really got the 'power' I get from the KM184. And yes, it hurt coughing $800! But we spend thousands and thousands on guitars.....they deserve the best mic we can give them. If you are flush, 2 like mine makes stereo and a whole pile of way better, and really expensive, ones are out there. But I am stopping at my KM184. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I have found this site useful in the past when comparing microphones: http://recordinghacks.com/microphones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 ..... So why do I relate this long winded business? Because I am back to saying the Neumann KM184 into GarageBand via a little 4 channel A&H mixer is wayyyyyy better, and way smaller than ALL that other stuff - for solo acoustic guitar/vocal. Me! My friend never lived to see GarageBand and how easy it can be, let alone iPads and phones.....he would have been delirious! And he was always raving about getting a Neumann exdyfixty something or other! Bingo! BluesKing777. I completely get where you are coming from Bluesking, and that you have found your perfect setup and mic in your KM184. There is no arguing against the sound and build quality of Neumanns. I use them in my studio on a regular basis. I have most often used Neumann U87s (which here cost getting on for 2000 UK pounds nowadays) and they sound fantastic, but I have been been equally happy with the sound I get using a Rode NT1, which is a fraction of the cost. There would be an awful lot of other recording gear one could buy with the money saved! That's why I give it a bang for buck recommendation. I have earned my crust composing and recording music for the last 40 odd years, if I felt something was compromising sound quality I wouldn't use it. My experience with the Rode has clearly been different to yours it would seem, but there ya go. I liked your story! Since the 60s I've been down the Revox, Portastudio, 16 track Fostex, and then computer recording route at home, things never stop changing when it comes to equipment. Fortunately the guitars have remained much as they always were, and Gibsons have always been great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 If I had to give a bang for buck suggestion I would recommend the Rode NT1. It sounds great recording vocals and acoustic guitars, and has an extremely low noise floor It comes with a great shock mount and pop shield. I use this mic myself pretty much on a daily basis. (You could buy a couple for less than the cost of a Neumann and record your guitar beautifully using a stereo pair setup!) If you want to use high pass filters or change the mic pickup pattern, much like a Neumann U87, then the Rode NT2 has those extra features, though is a little more expensive. +1 on the Rode NT1 or NT2. Excellent mics for mid-range price. I use the NT1 for both vocals and acoustic recording. I recorded my J200 Standard and my vocals with the NT1 on this track. Fire & Rain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 +1 on the Rode NT1 or NT2. Excellent mics for mid-range price. I use the NT1 for both vocals and acoustic recording. I recorded my J200 Standard and my vocals with the NT1 on this track. Fire & Rain Nice version, and good sound on both the guitar and vocal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Well, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them use a budget guitar, Keef says swanning past with the old Gibson L-0 and Martin 0-45...... Is that the saying? http://ehomerecordingstudio.com/best-condenser-mics/ http://homerecording.about.com/od/productreviews/gr/km184.htm BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Ive posted before regarding this. But maybe some new info can be got this time Bluesking suggests I invest in a Neumann mic . It's not that I haven't thought of it before . Both his and em7's recordings on soundcloud are a cut above the norm , in my opinion. Now I know that they aren't short on skill and ability that I may lack , but there's a warmth to the songs that I don't seem to be able to match . Sal has nice recordings , but I know what he uses . Kwalker and Lars , yours sounds a little better than mine , do you do two tracks ? I ha e sm58 into a lexicon alpha interface . One mic situated between the guitar and my face . Onto a pc , with a little reverb and a slight eq done just to plaster over my cracks. https://soundcloud.com/islandmageestu/far-from-me-2 This is the latest , I'm sure you will all agree it could do with more warmth . Thanks people's Going back to the first post of Blindboygrunt, and having listened again to his Soundcloud recording, which is very nice BTW... I understood the concern about the lack of warmth, it being a bit light in the low mids and bass end. That's why I suggested the NT1, being a large diaphragm condenser with lots of available warmth for vocals, and a great instrument all rounder, at a great price. The KM184s are more suited to guitar than they are vocals perhaps. The direct Rode 'competitor' to the KM184 would be the NT5. (If you YouTube search Rode NT5 vs KM184 you'll find comparison videos.) There are of course other brands of mics to try apart from these, I just happen to have had good experience and reliability from Rodes. Neumann mics have earned their reputation over decades and as I said, you can't argue with their quality. However you can argue with your bank manager or significant other about their cost :) If money is no object then you are not going to be dissatisfied with them. All of this stuff depends on the way you are recording... will at all be down in one with a single mic, or multiple mics, or will you be overdubbing etc. If at all possible, before buying, I'd borrow some different mics to test for yourself and see which one gives you the result you like best in the way you want to record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 If money was no object I would already have a Neumann . Money's always an object ! 😄 I'm looking hard at the rode mic , sorry BK , haven't bought anything yet but the samples I've heard are very nice ... Still like Neumann though 😕 What I will do is maybe put a bit more low and low middle of the eq. I'm 'mixing' (using that term in its loosest possible way) with earphones on as I have no decent speakers , money an object again ... So maybe I'm hearing earphones bass and stopping adding more . Thanks dickie for the input , much appreciated . Your recording was great. I think I could get a much much better recording with my shure if I was doing what you have done , which I'm assuming was place the mic close to the instrument . But I'm trying to record vocal and guitar at the same time . And drathbun , yours has a vocal track and an instrument track etc ... I'm assuming again . It was also brilliant Why don't you guys share this stuff with us more often !!? Again , appreciate the help . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Well, if you get that and this and it sux, and then go ooh ooh ooh, I shoulda got da Noymannn, you lost time, confidence, money, respect Go for the jugular, get ONE KM184. The Rodes I gave away, it reminds me that the guy hasn't played me one single recording from them. Guess they are a bust! People don't appreciate things given to them as much as grafting for them. I always got too much woof from the Rodes and had to carve bits out all the time - the KM184 is run flat on my mixer and never touch a thing - best guitar AND vocal SOUND I've ever had. ( I have lead a sheltered life though ). What I actually sing and play is another whole ball of wax... And you need to be careful boosting frequencies, can cause speakers in different places to rattle....better to cut. eg. Great on the headphones and home stereo, but buzzes and rattles in the car stereo.... My friend use to master his recordings himself, an expert task, with two sets of speakers with one set a rubbish pair. Then he would drive over to play his cd test track on my stereo, then.....on the dreaded blue enemy of music - my old Sony boombox. Bzzz, Bzzzz. Rattle, rattle, look of despair and defeat on his face and back to the drawing board. Another approach is to get a really nice tube preamp and run the SM58 or 57 through that. My friend left me a Sebatron something or other tube preamp which almost makes the SM57 sound like my Neumann......nah, it doesn't but it is a great sound but lots and lots of knobs and switches. Did I mention the preamp is worth more than 2 Neumann Ks? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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