nodehopper Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 OK...so I have been playing for a few years. Can finger pick a few songs well....and a bunch more ...OK. So I think I have found my new hurdle...to sing while I play guitar. Now I am not the most confident person with all this.....I pretty much fall apart just trying to play in front of someone. I am sure not a good singer either and the combination is killing me at this point. I just started some vocal lessons and I am sticking to just a couple songs. Both these songs I know the guitar part almost with out thinking now. Just 2 vocal lessons and I do already notice a significant improvement in singing. I don't go flat at the end of lines nearly as much, but I still can't belt it out and I know I sing much to quietly at this point. I have been working on this with these two songs for 3+ months and it is coming very slowly. Just last week I tried something that I think is working really well for me and thought I would pass it on. Maybe help anyone else who is also dealing with this. So last week I recorded myself playing just the guitar part to the songs. Burned them to CD. So I have a CD with just my two songs on it. Now each day, driving back and forth to work, I am able to sing along with the guitar part exactly as I play it. This means I can focus only on singing and how my voice interacts with the guitar melody. It makes sense since I learned the guitar part as a separate thing.....so why not now focus only on the vocal. Does any one else do this? Any other suggestions from the pros (or not so pros) on other techniques to learn to sing and play guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What has helped me the most is recording my singing. I make a recording of any song that I'm interested in performing. (A most humbling experience.) But then I work it back phrase by phrase, making notes to myself about what has to be fixed. Before performing any song- or certainly doing a 'real' recording, I'd recommend doing this (recording). It has helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yeah, agree with everything said above. I think a crucial thing is to hear yourself well as you are singing. Because there is a feedback loop as you hear pitch and adjust up or down for the correct pitch. Practicing with a recording setup and wearing headphones as you sing can help a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Node...I think that is a great practice.....and I think Hoss has a great suggestion, too. But PLEASE, don't use the recordings to fuel the "inner critic"......lol.....it is all a process, have fun.....this is why we call it PLAYING the guitar, not WORKING the guitar....lol......play, have fun....learn by listening...Becoming a good listener is one of the most difficult things to do as a human....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodehopper Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Node...I think that is a great practice.....and I think Hoss has a great suggestion' date=' too. But PLEASE, don't use the recordings to fuel the "inner critic"......lol.....it is all a process, have fun.....this is why we call it PLAYING the guitar, not WORKING the guitar....lol......play, have fun....learn by listening...Becoming a good listener is one of the most difficult things to do as a human....lol[/quote'] HUH???? What were you saying again onewilyfool ???? Yes I have recorded myself a few times and OUCH. After the first couple times I realized I wasn't going to get it with out some help and that is what got me to sign up and take some singing lessons. Also I have found while practicing to my DC while driving, the glass of the windshield and side window is very sound reflective and I can hear myself better than in my livingroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What has helped me the most is recording my singing. I work it back phrase by phrase +1 both on recording and working by phrase. When you do sing, commit to it. Not to shout it, but dont be shy. Holding back and mumbling breathlessly probably wont be any more accurate. So put some air behind it and experience what you are singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yuck, I hate singing. I hate my voice, and I resent how singing TAKES MY ATTENTION AWAY FROM my guitar playing. Nevertheless, it's a necessary evil for me. KUDOS to you for taking lessons. I have literally hundreds of videos of me singing and playing my guitar, none of which will ever see the light of day LOL I have learned alot from the videos. The first few were brutal.... extremely hard to watch and listen to. But I learned, for example, that when I did bass runs, my fingers looked like a chicken having an epileptic seizure, so I learned to keep my fingers tucked in better. Ditto with the singing..... I'm learning what range is best for me (I'm using the word 'best' here with a whole lot of eye rolling) and what I can and cannot do. A hundred dollar webcam is my friend!! And so much fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I've been singing while playing for many years. Only recently have I begun to enjoy listening to the sound of my voice played back. There are two parts to this IMO... 1. We instinctively recoil from the sound of our own voices played back (on video or just audio). This is very much like seeing yourself on video for the first time. Just like we are not used to seeing ourselves as others do (we only see the inverse in the mirror), we never hear ourselves as others to unless it is played back to us. The sound of your voice inside your head has a completely different reverberation (your skull bones) than what others hear. So it is a shock. 2. As a result of #1 above, AND due to stage fright or basic lack of confidence, we tighten up, become self conscious and dont' allow ourselves to be free... which in it self causes pitch problems. Like the saying goes "Sing like nobody is listening"! I've found that recording yourself over and over, you get used to the sound of your voice and begin to get over that part of it. Also, when recording yourself, try just saying "F**K it! I'm going to go for it!" and letting yourself be totally free to let your voice go (remember breath support or you'll tear your pipes up). A while back I was recording a particularly difficult singing part for me... Clapton's "River of Tears". Every attempt was disappointing (all 40 of them). Then I read about how Clapton had always thought he was no singer until Delaney convinced him that he had a good voice and should try it. Now I think he is one of the greatest blues vocalists there is. Also, I recalled that someone once asked Barbra Streisand how she was able to hold a note so long and her answer was... "willpower". I know talent, training, practice and ability are all part of the equation, but if we don't allow ourselves to just throw caution to the wind and go for it... we'll always be holding something back for fear of failing - a self-fulfilling prophecy. Lennon voice: "So just DO IT man! You know? Like... get out there and DO IT! Dig it? I mean... you know..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peiplayer Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I think singing is all about the ability to stay on key and hit the notes. I’m fortunate in that I have always been able to tell if I’m doing that. With some exceptions I can’t really change the sound of my voice so I don’t worry too much about that. I’ve always enjoyed singing and I’m glad for that since although I’m an adequate accompanist, my guitar work is not that strong. I play regularly with a group where one of the guys starts singing and as the song progresses, goes further and further off key and he can’t tell…it’s quite hilarious. There are some songs of course that even though I might like them, I don’t attempt to sing them because they’re beyond my ability, but with so many songs to choose from these become few and far between. When I started some years ago, sure I was nervous, but as I gained experience and feedback from the audience, I became more confident in what I was doing, and relaxed a bit more. I sing everywhere I can and it seems like I’m always humming a tune. I’m on a continual hunt for new songs and I can see why some people start writing their own. There comes a point where new songs become harder to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I am like GG and just don't like the sound of my voice. For me though it is a range issue. I have no problem singing in key as long as the key is a low key with no range! I need to find more songs that are in my vocal range to be able to play and sing. I recently got an email from Gibson with the 10 best lessons of 2008 on it. It had the Stones "Honky Tonk Woman" in Open G with the riffs and stuff. Not a hard song at all and since I already do a couple other fingerstyle pieces of Leo Kottke's in Open G, I figured what the heck! I learned the guitar part in no time and then started on the vocal. This is actually a song I can sing, loud and proud! It's in a key that works for my low voice and I can't say how much fun I am having playing and singing along. Now I just need to learn a few more songs in that key and all will be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodehopper Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Drathbun and GGirl ....you guys hit the nail on the head for me. I KNOW I am my own worst enemy, my lack of confidence and unconscious cringing at the sound of my voice either recorded or reflected at me off a wall just sabotages me. I get self conscious, distracted and lose my place or pitch and then I tighten up and sing less forcefully and am more likely to go flat ....this just snowballs. GG...to be honest I bailed on this weeks lesson just because the last was so emotionally painful. She has me use a mic and sound system to sing and just that is so distracting and she is obviously correcting a lot of issues with me......so I got in the car after my last lesson and it just felt bad. I want to spend more time practicing before going again so I have postponed a couple weeks. Also thanks to everyone for the support and suggestions. I am glad to know I am not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumps Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The day I raised my level of guitar enjoyment to a new high was the day I quit worrying how awful my voice sounded and I just let loose and sang the songs while I played. I'm still pretty sure I'd never get paid to sing, but I can keep it on pitch most of the time, plus it adds a level of challenge to playing - now I have to coordinate chord changes, finger picking, and vocal changes. No real suggestions, other than I still always get the guitar part down first, then work on the vocals. Songs that are in the upper register of my voice are harder for me to hit the right notes. In general I find Beatles songs harder to sing - I wonder if it's just because Beatles melodies never seem to go where I think they should or because I'm so used to singing Cash songs and traditional bluegrass/folk that I'm thinking the song will zig when it zags... two nights ago I was practicing (practicing means I'm workin' on it, right?) and DW comes in the room, sits down to go through stuff in her purse and listen. I'm working on "In My Life" by the Beatles, hard for me to sing. She's from England BTW, so by nature a Beatles snob. She stops me on my second pass and says "the guitar work is spot on, the vocals are all off" to which I kindly (not so much) informed her I was practicing, and she was welcome to rustle through her purse in the other room. Oh, and yes, my vocals need a lot of work on that song :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peiplayer Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Try not to worry so much Node…its supposed to be fun (at our level anyway). Last summer I was singing away in the biggest festival in PEI. I’d just sang 2 verses and the chorus, it was in instrumental mode, and it was just coming around to where I had to start singing the 3rd verse. Not only did I forget the words, I forgot what song it was I was singing!!! Right in the middle of it!!! While the music was actually playing!!! I looked frantically at our set list taped to the stagefloor to try and figure out what songs we had already played and which one this was, but time was too short. Luckily our bass player who seems to oftentimes to be able read my mind picked up that something had happened and she began to sing her part of the chorus again. We ended the song right after that a verse short. Afterwards when I told the others in the band what had happened they couldn’t believe everything had sounded so smooth. The audience never noticed that I was in a state of panic for an instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Drathbun....I agree with you totally.....just go for it. Let it all hang out and take the consequences. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodehopper Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Drathbun....I agree with you totally.....just go for it. Let it all hang out and take the consequences. Have fun. yah....easy for you to say. But then I try that and hear the off-key grotesque sounds emanating from my pie-hole and stop singing for a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 drink more alcohol and you won't care! works for me. hope that helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumps Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 drink more alcohol and you won't care! works for me. hope that helped. you might also relax enough to let it all go and then really sing better.... I mean, I'm pretty sure a lot of singers I've seen live were hammered. Most did a pretty good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgTime Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yeah dude, btw **** everyone else if someone tells you (outside your band) that you cant do it. Just keep working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 One of my practice methods is to sing through one of those empty cardboard tubes when all the toilet paper us used up. Helps me to "focus" the sound, and makes me less self conscious when I sing at an open mic, because I know I look a lot less sillier WITHOUT the toilet paper tube, than with it......lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodehopper Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 drink more alcohol and you won't care! works for me. hope that helped. JanNuSgoy... That es A gret Sgggggestion. I thhhinkk it isss reaally hlpng meeee. I kant bilive howe mussssh beatter I sound Singeling. I LOOOOVE U mANN !! I reilly meaN it !!! rEEEELy !! I do!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 It's always good to know that others are suffering with the same problem. I hate the sound of my recorded speaking voice and seeing myself on video. I have never heard myself back singing unless you count my parents recording of me singing along with Tom Jones' Delilah. I was 4 at the time. The thought of it is far more terrifying than standing up in front of a crowd, singing and playing. I'm sort of OK with that, but the last thing I want to hear is how bad it is! I suspect this is a hurdle we will all have to get over at some stage. This is a great thread. Loads of useful advice. I was told not to drink milk or eat chocolate before your sing. Apparently it leads to too much phlem. Beer is fine and I agree with those who say it makes you relax so you feel more inclined to belt it out. The problem is that after a couple of pints I can sing OK but can't play the guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigshot Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I played and sang every Sunday at an assisted living home for my mother and her friends for three years. I was just beginning to play and sing, and I made a lot of mistakes, but the folks there were so appreciative and supportive, it didn't matter. It turned out to be a great way to get my feet wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Big shot....great story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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