ABurn66 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Looking for advice on a 1942 J-45. I've had the Guitar for sometime now and was wondering if the market was prime to sell? I had it appraised some years ago but I don't really follow the vintage guitar market. The guitar itself is interesting as it has a few different features such as the white silk screen Gibson logo rather than the yellow with "Only a Gibson is Good Enough", the pick guard isn't typical of a 42 either (or so I've been told). I am not in any rush to try to sell it and I enjoy playing the guitar when the mood suites (I restrain and play one of my other less valuable instruments most of the time as I am terrified to damage it) Any advice would be appreciated! Edited July 23, 2019 by ABurn66 dang grammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) There is always capital in the vintage and used guitar market so whether it's prime time to sell is more up to you and your circumstances than anything else. She doesn't look like a '42 J-45 to me but good luck anyway! Edited July 23, 2019 by Leonard McCoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Hopefully Tom Barnwell will pipe in. Nice looking guitar. Must be an early ‘42 with no banner. I would guess it’s fairly rare. How are you dating it as a ‘42 and identifying it as a J45? Looks to be in great shape. I would definitely seek out some of the experts on this forum of which I am not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABurn66 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) It was appraised by Gruhn Guitars in Nashville, I had originally thought it to be a J-35. But George's opinion and Willi's with Gibson Banner thought it to be a very early 42 J-45. huh. what do think it is? Work order 7433H , I've been told the "H" is a 42 Edited July 23, 2019 by ABurn66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I would never doubt those two. I have a 42 LG1 with a FON 7704H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, ABurn66 said: I enjoy playing the guitar when the mood suites (I restrain and play one of my other less valuable instruments most of the time as I am terrified to damage it) Any advice would be appreciated! My advice is to be careful but play the ba-jeezus out of it. If it proves to be what it is - looks like J45s from the '40s are going from between $6-9k typically, but I would stray away from that thought and go back to the playing it thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABurn66 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 What is the thought on the tuners? I was told by Gruhn to replace the tuning buttons but keep the tuners, I have had others say to keep them intact and store and replace with replicas if I want to play it seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Beautiful guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Between George and Willi you can take what they say as Gospel. Apparently though the FON of your guitar puts it right on the heels of the last batch of J35s made. I mean we are talking one FON digit later. So it can be speculated that Gibson used a leftover J35 neck on your guitar. . It would explain the lack of a Banner where earlier '42 Gibsons have them such as my J50 with an FON of 7116H. Edited July 23, 2019 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Very nice guitar! I have a 1942 J-45, FON 7721H-14, which was fixed up by Willi Henkes in 2012. According to Willi my guitar has a late period J-35 style bridge, so it's not impossible that your guitar could have a J-35 neck. Gibson used whatever parts they could find during the war. Mine is the fifth J-45 from the top of the Banner registry list, if you want to compare features. I'm in Europe and don't really know the market that well now. I know Banners have gained in popularity, but on the other hand I think the market is down a bit compared to recent years. How original is your guitar and what is the condition. Repairs done, or needed? I would estimate a value between $7000-$9000, depending on condition. As for the tuners, personally I would keep both the buttons and the gears, unless they are not functioning properly of course. All that said, you should not sell that guitar! Lars Edited July 23, 2019 by Lars68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 The similarity to the burst on Lars' '42 is the first thing that came to mind. Lars- you should post the photo you have of yours amongst the greenery. ABurn- if the tuners are not too wonky, you might consider re-buttoning them. . . there are many nice aged looking buttons available, and the patina of open backed tuners is but one part of the charm of old guitars. But if they fly right past where they need to be to tune up, and you'd rather play with all 6 strings flat just to avoid touching them, then by all means, put them aside and get some nice, accurate modern machine heads on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABurn66 Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 The guitar is original other than having some of the back braces repaired/reglued . There was a shim installed under the bridge which I had removed at the same time. Additionally Gruhn suggests a refret. The guitar sounds amazing. The concern with the tuners is that the buttons will crumble to dust when I am tuning or changing strings .However it really seems to stay on tune very well. Icontacted Willi Henke back in 2011 about this guitar and he was a great help. I didn't do much with it till 2015 when I had it appraised and worked on so I could play it. I will try to post more pictures soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) For a few hundred bucks you might be able to find a nice set of period correct Klusons through Jim Dulfer, a fair priced vintage tuner broker, and pocket the originals for restoration. You can find him on the UMGF as 'grateful dad' or just email him here. He bought out a friend's guitar shop and found drawers filled with old machines. He's hooked me up often. nblwds@yahoo.com On the other hand, I have original open back Klusons on my '31 L0 with shrunken bakelite buttons that look much like yours. I have backup tuners but so far the orig have held up. It;s been 9 years now. Edited July 24, 2019 by jedzep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, 62burst said: The similarity to the burst on Lars' '42 is the first thing that came to mind. Lars- you should post the photo you have of yours amongst the greenery. Here is the photo. I agree the burst is similar in that is has a red hue. The bright sunshine makes it stand out in my picture. Other signs of early Banners are the slightly fancier bindings and rosette rings (the extra outer ring, as in the first picture). They also have a very thin backstrip which later guitars do not. According to Willi, the early ones were also braced lighter. If I'm not mistaken, Willi also said something about the headstock being slightly different, in regards to placement of the tuners. If you look in the Banner registry you can see that the last three guitars ( Souther Jumbos) listed in 1942 also have white logos, like the guitar above. Lars IMG_0282 by Banner Gibson, on Flickr IMG_0454 by Banner Gibson, on Flickr Edited July 24, 2019 by Lars68 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABurn66 Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Lars68 said: They also have a very thin backstrip which later guitars do not. According to Willi, the early ones were also braced lighter. If I'm not mistaken, Willi also said something about the headstock being slightly different, in regards to placement of the tuners. Lars, that's a beauty! remarking on you comment Willi said this to me in 2011 " The 7xxxH J-45s interestingly all had a two piece back but no center strip like yours. This only was seen in 1942 while pre 1942 J-35s and all later J-45s had a one piece top with a spruce center strip glued to the back inside even there’s no seam to reinforce." see the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 So very likely a "Floor Sweep" Gibson. Certainly not unheard of during the War years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ABurn66 said: Lars, that's a beauty! remarking on you comment Willi said this to me in 2011 " The 7xxxH J-45s interestingly all had a two piece back but no center strip like yours. This only was seen in 1942 while pre 1942 J-35s and all later J-45s had a one piece top with a spruce center strip glued to the back inside even there’s no seam to reinforce." see the pics Interesting quote from Willi. By the way, I think you meant to write ”one piece back”, right? The back on my guitar looks just like yours, with two pieces and a tiny dark back strip. There are several other 1942 guitars with that back configuration now in the registry. Like mentioned previously in this thread, very few guitars are as closely associated with a specific time period and its circumstances as the Banners. I'm just an absolute amateur hack when it comes to my guitar playing, but I find the Banners so fascinating because of their connection to history, and that two of them are hardly ever the same. Their full potential as musical instruments are unfortunately wasted on me 😀 If I were you, I would consider contacting Willi for doing any necessary work on your guitar to make it a perfectly playable instrument, tuners, frets and all. He is in Germany, of course, but in this case shipping might be justified. He is such an expert on these instruments and having him evaluate it makes good sense, especially if you are about to sell it. Potential buyers will ask tons of questions, which will be difficult to answer giving the inconsistency of Banners. Having Willis word on it and guarantee on condition and playability, will help a lot. I know he has very good rates for shipping with insurance too. Just something to look into perhaps...but again, don't sell it! Lars Edited July 24, 2019 by Lars68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) Thanks for sharing your guitar with us! I love these guitars, which I call Bannerless Banners. I've seen the old logo on the new wartime models in both the SJ and J-45. I presume that these were from the very first run, before Gibson made the decision on the new logo and Banner. But, because Gibson did not identify flattops by Factory Order Number in its shipping ledgers, we will never know whether a guitar like yours shipped as a J-35 or J-45. But, given the adoption of the new headstock shape, purflings, and, in the case of the Bannerless SJ, the fingerboard inlays, I agree that it's safe to assume that this is a J-45. In any event, a very cool guitar! Since the publication of Kalamazoo Gals, I've also obtained copies of the original specification sheets for the Banner flattop models. I now know details down to top thickness, bracing thickness, and screws used for the tuners and truss rod cover. Alas, no mention of the logo or Banner. Thanks, again, for sharing your guitar with us. On edit: I also know of a Bannerless Banner LG-2. Again, probably first run "Banners." Edited July 24, 2019 by jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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