New Gibson J 45 studio unplayable. Action MUCH too low

[bobouz]

6 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Yep, that happened to me. But the binding and neck reset thing never.

Were both on this site alot. How often does someone post an issue with there Gibby. Quite often, seems like almost daily. So ya wanna split hairs on this or what.

Well, more often than not, the issues that get brought up on this board with Gibson acoustics revolve around set-up issues, or finish concerns - as opposed to structural matters requiring major warranty work.  I’m not on here every day, but I don’t ever recall reading about a Gibson acoustic that needed a neck reset after only a few years of ownership.  Martin has had systemic problems with both that and the binding issue, and we’re talking about their high end instruments - not the entry level stuff.

So when it seems to fit into a conversation about comparative quality, I’ll be pointing this out once again.

[Dave F]

I take the attitude that it’s wood, steel and plastic subjected to who knows what kind of conditions after it leaves the factory. Odds of it moving are pretty good. I have a few Gibson’s and Martins and the majority of them come high from the factory as a normal. I wish they had your problem where I needed a higher saddle. The higher saddle should produce a stronger sound.  Find a guitar with a thicker top, longer aged wood and beefier bracing and maybe it will be more stable. I think Gibson and Martin tried this back in the ‘70’s.  I think I’ve had a couple Gibson’s where I needed to raise the saddles. They’re great guitars with a higher saddle.  Usually I’m trying to lower the saddle and running out of room. 
with the exception of one Martin,  I usually have to adjust the truss rod every year or so to bring a guitar back in. 

[zombywoof]

The way I look at it there are two kind of guitars out there.  Those that have had a neck reset and those that will need one.  It just seems to happen quicker with certain guitars.  When it comes to Martins ,those hollow square truss rods they used from the late-1960s to the mid-1980s sucked.  I is fairly common these days to insert a carbon fiber rod to stiffen them.    One of the things I do think builders of yore got right was that instead of using metal rods to reinforce the neck they went with bar frets.  Unlike metal truss rods, these were an integral part of the guitar's neck  and served the same function as compression fretting.   

But as this is a new guitar, I would not spend another second putzing with it.  It is something the seller needs to deal with.  

Edited May 29, 2020 by zombywoof

[attaboy_jhb]

1 hour ago, Dave F said:

I take the attitude that it’s wood, steel and plastic subjected to who knows what kind of conditions after it leaves the factory. Odds of it moving are pretty good. I have a few Gibson’s and Martins and the majority of them come high from the factory as a normal. I wish they had your problem where I needed a higher saddle. The higher saddle should produce a stronger sound.  Find a guitar with a thicker top, longer aged wood and beefier bracing and maybe it will be more stable. I think Gibson and Martin tried this back in the ‘70’s.  I think I’ve had a couple Gibson’s where I needed to raise the saddles. They’re great guitars with a higher saddle.  Usually I’m trying to lower the saddle and running out of room. 
with the exception of one Martin,  I usually have to adjust the truss rod every year or so to bring a guitar back in. 

You seem to be correct. Today the action is at 2mm... so it doubled overnight. I left the guitar in a room that I lightly humidified overnight. My concern though is that if the guitar was not stored correctly all this time, could there be permanent damage or does the wood just go back in its place and all is dandy?

 

I tried placing a steel straight edge on the top parallel to the neck going from the neck to the bridge... it looks like there is a dip where the bridge is. Should it be straight?

Edited May 29, 2020 by attaboy_jhb

[Larsongs]

Why waste your time? Send it back for an Exchange or a Refund... 

[attaboy_jhb]

2 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

Why waste your time? Send it back for an Exchange or a Refund... 

I still probably will do that... but if they exchange it and thr guitar was stored inccorectly... what will the next be like.?

[RBSinTo]

8 minutes ago, attaboy_jhb said:

I still probably will do that... but if they exchange it and thr guitar was stored inccorectly... what will the next be like.?

If you clearly state your reasons for requiring an exchange,  the seller will likely not make the same mistake twice.

RBSinTo

[Larsongs]

On May 29, 2020 at 9:07 AM, attaboy_jhb said:

I still probably will do that... but if they exchange it and thr guitar was stored inccorectly... what will the next be like.?

I had an experience where I did 2 return/exchanges of the same model Guitar. The 3rd was a Charm! Don't give up..

Edited May 30, 2020 by Larsongs

[Jinder]

I've had some great experiences buying gear from Thomann, but some less than stellar experiences buying instruments. 

Some time ago (2014ish), they acquired a huge stock of Recording King seconds, guitars that had build issues and were rejected or returned by the original retailers. I had been hunting for an RNJ-25, the RK Nick Lucas remake, for some time, and was delighted when Thomann showed that they had some in stock.

I ordered one straight away, but was dismayed when it arrived. The top had sunk dramatically and the neck was so overset that it had been fitted with a saddle which protruded from the bridge by over TWENTY millilitres. Not far off half an inch. It played okay, but of course that sort of setup is a ticking time bomb with regard to structural issues, bridge roll etc. The guitar was also entirely devoid of flame in the Maple back and sides (despite being advertised as having flame), and had a pronounced twist in the neck. 

It went back straight away, of course. I hoped that it was just an isolated duffer, and asked for a replacement rather than a refund, requesting that it be chosen from their stock by a tech who could check it over properly before sending it out. 

They obliged, and sent me a replacement which was much better. Sensible neck angle, proper saddle height, no neck twist and lovely flame. It sounded terrific and played like butter. I took it to my luthier for a fret polish and general check over, and immediately he took the strings off, reached for a piece of paper, slipped it under the bridge and told me that the bridge itself was only held on by a 10mm sliver of glue right at the leading edge. 

He advised proper humidification, followed by the bridge being properly glued and clamped, all of which he did...the guitar was flawless after that and provided several years of stellar service until I moved it on back in 2017ish when I bought a Martin 00DB Tweedy (a sensational guitar...wish I still had that one!).

My point, rather lengthily made, is that I'm not sure if Thomann apply any form of temperature or humidity control to their storage facility. If your guitar acclimates to your house and settles down, all the better...if not, I'd send it back and let Thomann sort out either a refund or a proper replacement...do insist on it being tech checked, though.

[Rex Bergsma]

I played two  J-45s and strummed one of them for about 60 seconds and thought “somethings off. “ My brother quickly handed me the other J-45 and tone just popped out of the guitar with amazing projection. I switched back to the first again and was like “huh?”

An employee of GC said the one I first played was the studio version with walnut sides. Ok…that made sense. It was a very pretty and well-built guitar but the tone was just flat. I would say if you’re debating from a cost point of view I would spend the extra money or save a little longer to buy the regular J-45 with Mahogany.  My two cents.

[MissouriPicker]

Stop picking-on guitars with neck problems.  I once owned a guitar that had what many of you would say was a problem.  After a couple years, the neck had bowed into a “U.”    The cool thing was that I could then use it as a harp.

[zombywoof]

I am still trying to wrap my head around bashing a guitar after playing one for a whole 60 seconds.  That is not even enough time for me to perform the "whack test" where I give the top a slight whack with the side of my thump on the top by the bridge and then on the rim and listen to how much tone I hear and how far the vibration travels though my body,

[Sgt. Pepper]

31 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

  That is not even enough time for me to perform the "whack test" 

You do that on the guitar? Just the guitar?

[fortyearspickn]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:52 AM, zombywoof said:

I am still trying to wrap my head around bashing a guitar after playing one for a whole 60 seconds.  That is not even enough time for me to perform the "whack test" where I give the top a slight whack with the side of my thump on the top by the bridge and then on the rim and listen to how much tone I hear and how far the vibration travels though my body,

Yep.    I can see not picking up a guitar because it doesn't pass 'the sniff test',   but once you see one that talks the talk,  you've got to give it at least five minutes to see if it walks the walk. 

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said:

Yep.    I can see not picking up a guitar because it doesn't pass 'the sniff test',   but once you see one that talks the talk,  you've got to give it at least five minutes to see if it walks the walk. 

No doubt Gibson, Martin and others are perfectly capable of producing the occasional guitar with a dead top.  But I am a terrible procrastinator when it comes to guitars that pique my interest and will often leave it all to fate and go back to a store and try the same guitar a couple of times.  I figure if it is still there it was meant to be.   On the other hand, there have been a handful of Gibsons which the first big fat open chord made my mouth drop open and utter a "whoa".  Odd thing is these have all come into my life when I was not even thinking about buying a guitar never mind a certain make or model.  

But when it comes to say Bozeman-made J45s as a starting point what I look for is what I consider to be (based on my frame of reference) a "best of the breed" instrument.  But what I want is one with a bit more gusto than say the other three candidates I had played.  So, maybe a clearer bass or more percussive lower mids or something.  It is one of those things where I may not be able to describe it, I sure know it when I hear it.

Edited July 27, 2022 by zombywoof