Is this a real or fake J-45?

[Gibson Artist]

This is supposed to be a 65 j-45 is this legit or fake?  The pickguard is totally wrong and no inside tags???

 

[Gibson Artist]

Side shot

[E-minor7]

It looks like the real deal with a fixed bridge, but you don't give us the best opportunities to judge. 
Still I'd say yes. 

[E-minor7]

A connoisseur would be able to hear it too. 

[Gibson Artist]

Another pic

[Gibson Artist]

[bobouz]

Looks good.  Rosewood insert substituted for the adjustable hardware, to allow for a standard saddle.  Nice fat frets, typical of the era.  Headstock appointments correct.  Pickguards were apparently someone's idea of improved aesthetics!

Edited December 5, 2020 by bobouz

[E-minor7]

As bobouz says it's a genuine Gibson. Looks pretty kool. The faded cherry top couldn't be nicer. If you like the sound and have it within reach, snap it. 

[Boyd]

Looks a lot like my 1965 J-50, except for the ugly pickguards. I wonder if they could be removed without doing some damage?

[Sgt. Pepper]

I like the shape of the guard but 2 is not necessary.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[RBSinTo]

If possible, take it to a knowledgeable person (like a reputable luthier) who can examine it, and then you'll know for certain. 

RBSinTo

 

[j45nick]

23 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

If possible, take it to a knowledgeable person (like a reputable luthier) who can examine it, and then you'll know for certain. 

RBSinTo

 

The pictures tell the story.

Serial number, tuners, neck details, body details, frets, rosette style --everything except the pickguards-- are consistent with a 1965 J-45.

Edited December 5, 2020 by j45nick
added additional thought

[62burst]

What a beautifully aged Iced Tea burst. Interesting how more of the red remained in the upper bout. The vibe that guitar gives to me is of a guitar that one person had for a long time, and probably has some regrets about seeing it go. Even though (like the bridge), they've been on there for many years, the double guards have nice tort patterning, but are a bit much for most players. However,  like the loud red cherry sunburst available on some newer Gibson reissues, people who "get" their historical perspective (or Dylan fans) will be ok with the look.

Hopefully you'll get to try this one out. . . just make sure that fingers won't be cramped for space at the first few frets, and bring a mirror to look under the hood- could be a repaired pickguard crack (treble bout near the outside tip of the p/g), and see that all looks in order at the bridge plate.

Edited December 5, 2020 by 62burst

[RBSinTo]

1 hour ago, j45nick said:

The pictures tell the story.

Serial number, tuners, neck details, body details, frets, rosette style --everything except the pickguards-- are consistent with a 1965 J-45.

Unless one is planning on selling a fake to Lenny and Squiggy, I would expect the fake to look reasonably and consistantly enough like the real thing to pass an arms length inspection.

RBSinTo

[j45nick]

1 hour ago, RBSinTo said:

Unless one is planning on selling a fake to Lenny and Squiggy, I would expect the fake to look reasonably and consistantly enough like the real thing to pass an arms length inspection.

RBSinTo

 

Yes, only a first-hand inspection by someone knowledgeable would be definitive, but you can decide whether this is "beyond a reasonable doubt" or just "the preponderance of evidence."

There is probably not much of a market for a fake 1965 J-45.  Most fake Gibson acoustics are pretty easy to spot, because almost no fakes get all the details correct.

If this is a fake, someone went to a lot of trouble and knew enough to age a period-correct set of Kluson tuners to look 55 years old, use the proper fretwire and rosette material for the period, choose a correct serial number for the year, fill the adjustable saddle mechanism slot in the bridge with a rosewood insert to allow a fixed saddle (a fairly common modification of Gibsons from this period), and replicate a period-correct mid-60s faded cherryburst from a period where Gibson is known to have used unstable red dye that sometimes faded exactly like this.

All to create a guitar worth a couple of thousand bucks, which they created from a ..... (fill in the blank)?

Do you see something in the pictures that suggests it is not a 1965 J-45? Anything?

Most luthiers I knew would not have enough obsession with the details of Gibson J-45s built between 1943 and 1969 to know the details of those guitars for almost every year in that period.

There are plenty of folks here that do.

Having said that, any advice you get here is worth exactly what you paid for it.

[RBSinTo]

34 minutes ago, j45nick said:

 

Yes, only a first-hand inspection by someone knowledgeable would be definitive, but you can decide whether this is "beyond a reasonable doubt" or just "the preponderance of evidence."

There is probably not much of a market for a fake 1965 J-45.  Most fake Gibson acoustics are pretty easy to spot, because almost no fakes get all the details correct.

If this is a fake, someone went to a lot of trouble and knew enough to age a period-correct set of Kluson tuners to look 55 years old, use the proper fretwire and rosette material for the period, choose a correct serial number for the year, fill the adjustable saddle mechanism slot in the bridge with a rosewood insert to allow a fixed saddle (a fairly common modification of Gibsons from this period), and replicate a period-correct mid-60s faded cherryburst from a period where Gibson is known to have used unstable red dye that sometimes faded exactly like this.

All to create a guitar worth a couple of thousand bucks, which they created from a ..... (fill in the blank)?

Do you see something in the pictures that suggests it is not a 1965 J-45? Anything?

Most luthiers I knew would not have enough obsession with the details of Gibson J-45s built between 1943 and 1969 to know the details of those guitars for almost every year in that period.

There are plenty of folks here that do.

Having said that, any advice you get here is worth exactly what you paid for it.

j-45nick,

I'm not Gibson-obsessed, so don't know enough about them to spot a fake, thus the photos mean nothing to me.

However, I stand by my advice.

The Luthiers who look after my guitars also buy and sell high-end instruments so are up on what is time-period correct and so on, on guitars such as this one, and I advise anyone planning on spending what I assume will be a fair bit of money for a vintage guitar to let someone who knows their stuff examine it, in the flesh, before plunking down the afore-mentioned money. 

And your last two lines contradict each other, and the last line seems to be tacitly agreeing with what I suggested.

RBSinTo

[j45nick]

4 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

 

I'm not Gibson-obsessed, so don't know enough about them to spot a fake, thus the photos mean nothing to me.

RBSinTo

That says all we need to know. Some of us here are Gibson-obsessed, and the photos mean a lot to us.

[RBSinTo]

1 hour ago, j45nick said:

That says all we need to know. Some of us here are Gibson-obsessed, and the photos mean a lot to us.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Caveat Emptor.

RBSinTo

Edited December 5, 2020 by RBSinTo

[Leonard McCoy]

13 hours ago, Gibson Artist said:

Either the bridge has been shaved down to nigh-nothing or I'm seeing not right.

[bobouz]

1 hour ago, RBSinTo said:

I'm not Gibson-obsessed, so don't know enough about them to spot a fake, thus the photos mean nothing to me.

However, I stand by my advice.

The Luthiers who look after my guitars also buy and sell high-end instruments so are up on what is time-period correct and so on, on guitars such as this one, and I advise anyone planning on spending what I assume will be a fair bit of money for a vintage guitar to let someone who knows their stuff examine it, in the flesh, before plunking down the afore-mentioned money. 

 

You’ve got it backwards, RSBinTo.  Whether you’re talking cameras, cars, or guitars, these forums bring together enthusiasts from around the world who collectively have far more detailed knowledge than you’re likely to gain from a shop owner in most communities.

This collective wisdom is your easily accessible starting point.  If you happen to live somewhere where a shop owner says he knows his stuff, and an in-hand assessment can be done, by all means, take it in & see how that jives with the information gained here.  Better yet, come back here & share the shop owner’s info.

For sure, there are some who know their stuff, but you’d be astonished at how often a local guy gets it wrong when it comes to vintage pieces.  Sometimes this is simply because the local guy is mostly a Martin, Fender, or Guild Guy, but being  the local “expert” is a weighty badge of distinction, and rarely will they admit to what they don’t definitively know.

[j45nick]

1 hour ago, Leonard McCoy said:

Either the bridge has been shaved down to nigh-nothing or I'm seeing not right.

 

Hard to tell. It could be shaved down, but it could just be the lighting and the angle. The dots over the bridge screws are intact, so it probably hasn't been shaved down much unless someone has gone to the trouble to replace them.

Those bridges are just 6mm thick, and 2.5mm thick at the end of the wings.

My first thought was that the bridge was oversize, but that isn't easy to judge from a photo. The fact that it is an adj with a filled slot means it is probably original.

 

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, bobouz said:

 

You’ve got it backwards, RSBinTo.  Whether you’re talking cameras, cars, or guitars, these forums bring together enthusiasts from around the world who collectively have far more detailed knowledge than you’re likely to gain from a shop owner in most communities.

This collective wisdom is your easily accessible starting point.  If you happen to live somewhere where a shop owner says he knows his stuff, and an in-hand assessment can be done, by all means, take it in & see how that jives with the information gained here.  Better yet, come back here & share the shop owner’s info.

For sure, there are some who know their stuff, but you’d be astonished at how often a local guy gets it wrong when it comes to vintage pieces.  Sometimes this is simply because the local guy is mostly a Martin, Fender, or Guild Guy, but being  the local “expert” is a weighty badge of distinction, and rarely will they admit to what they don’t definitively know.

Well spoken ^

[fortyearspickn]

18 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Caveat Emptor.

RBSinTo

 

Ubi, o ubi, est mi sub ubi? 

[Sgt. Pepper]

33 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

 

Ubi, o ubi, est mi sub ubi? 

You can't find your underwear?

[j45nick]

51 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

 

Ubi, o ubi, est mi sub ubi? 

heh, heh, heh.....