NGD - Les Paul Standard 60s

[mihcmac]

Life is good, specially when you have a hot guitar to play..  🙂

[01GT eibach]

On 1/24/2021 at 4:51 AM, Pinch said:

 I noticed a bit of a dead spot on a rarely played note ... I really have to realize that resonant wooden instruments aren't synthesizers, and so they're gonna have idiosyncrasies.  

A dead spot on a new Les Paul Standard?  I wouldn't stand having any dead spots, if it were me (and I realize it isn't).  However, I use the entire fretboard where I know most people don't.  I had one guitar that brand new out of the box had a dead spot in the upper frets on the high-E string which is grade-A fretboard real estate for me.  I was able to cure it with some fret and action tweaking.  But it was an acceptable pain only because it was a very limited-availability guitar that I would not have been able to just send back and get another one.  So these things can be fixed. 

As for the pickups, you may want to just rip on that guitar for awhile before you tear them out.  For me, I am a huge fan of Gibson pups in general.    

Also, I would like to add that your guitar is fabulously beautiful, and -- I am sure -- sings like the angels.

Edited January 30, 2021 by 01GT eibach

[Pinch]

46 minutes ago, 01GT eibach said:

A dead spot on a new Les Paul Standard?  I wouldn't stand having any dead spots, if it were me (and I realize it isn't).  However, I use the entire fretboard where I know most people don't.  I had one guitar that brand new out of the box had a dead spot in the upper frets on the high-E string which is grade-A fretboard real estate for me.  I was able to cure it with some fret and action tweaking.  But it was an acceptable pain only because it was a very limited-availability guitar that I would not have been able to just send back and get another one.  So these things can be fixed. 

As for the pickups, you may want to just rip on that guitar for awhile before you tear them out.  For me, I am a huge fan of Gibson pups in general.    

Also, I would like to add that your guitar is fabulously beautiful, and -- I am sure -- sings like the angels.

It's a sympathetic vibration thing. That note gets an open string going, so it's not really noticeable unless you look for it and mute all other strings when you fret it. I've noticed there's usually a spot like that on every guitar if you really look for it.

Already installed new pickups, messing with the height now. Looks a bit wonky atm - for some reason, I seem to like neck pickups in particular to be very low.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Pinch

[Pinch]

I have pretty bad OCD, so a new guitar is a whirlwind of emotions... I pulled out both my Epi and my Tribute " just to see", and sure enough, if I look for it, I find similar spots that don't sustain as well - it's just that I never noticed, because I didn't sit there and go over them like a nut... I just played them, enjoyed them, and was infinitely happier for it 😉

I've heard a lot of people with real OCD say they don't like people casually saying "they're a bit OCD" about this or that. I'm the complete opposite - I say fair play to you, at least you don't waste valuable living time driving yourself nuts 😉

 

[01GT eibach]

Were you able to get the new pups installed, and - if so - what do you think?

[Pinch]

3 hours ago, 01GT eibach said:

Were you able to get the new pups installed, and - if so - what do you think?

Edit: I'm still trying to dial them in.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Pinch

[Pinch]

21 hours ago, 01GT eibach said:

Were you able to get the new pups installed, and - if so - what do you think?

I think the old ones are going back in. I can't get these to do what I want them to. They sounded great in the demos on YouTube. I jumped the gun and lost $300 in the process. I'm not sure they'll let me return them.

With the 61s, the dead spot - which is due to sypathetic resonance - actually sounded pretty interesting. I could fret it, ease the pressure, and the sympathetic resonance sang. With these, it's just a note that goes down like a lead balloon.

What I think I'll do is put the old ones back and live with the minor imperfection - use it as an effect, so to speak. It's not a note I use 24/7, and the sympathetic resonance there is pretty musical with the 61s. As OCD as I am, I admit I thought, okay, it's an imperfection, but I can't deny it sounds pretty cool! As a whole, the 61s pick up  the considerable natural resonance of the guitar. With the Slash pups, not so much.

To be perfectly honest, my Epi with ProBuckers sound a LOT more like Slash than these. I A/B'd them, and it was embarrasing.

The 61s were a bit Burstbucker-y bright, but they also had a good bass response and a lot of chime and nuances. The Seymours sound generic.

So the saga continues...

 

[zigzag]

Interesting the reaction people have to Burstbuckers. I have the Burstbucker Pros in my 2008 LP Standard, and I like them better than the '57 Classics I had in a 335. They are denser and meaner with a stronger mid-high than the '57s which I would characterize as rounder, warmer, and prettier but can get muddy. Compare those to the newer Calibrated T-types in my new 335 which, of the three, have better articulation, and some might characterize as thinner and lifeless. I like them all for different reasons, and I think the Burstbucker Pros are exactly where they need to be for my tastes.

[Pinch]

Whatever the outcome, I think I'm done with Gibson.I'll keep this one for what it is, but that's it. Almost every Gibson I've played in the last ten years have had one serious flaw or another. Bet you if I send this one back, I'll have one with perfectly even sustain and the tone of a brick wall. Some trade-off. Will probably put the pups back in this one, enjoy it warts and all with its good resonance, and be done with Gibson.

It's been a conflicting emotional whirlwind. as is evidenced by my conflicting posts. You know how it can go sometimes.

These are expensive guitars. They don't do proper QC, and they don't seem intent to start doing it either. Ten years is a long time to churn out crapshoot guitars for the prices they charge for them. I can't go through this b.s. again.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Pinch

[Pinch]

3 hours ago, zigzag said:

Interesting the reaction people have to Burstbuckers. I have the Burstbucker Pros in my 2008 LP Standard, and I like them better than the '57 Classics I had in a 335. They are denser and meaner with a stronger mid-high than the '57s which I would characterize as rounder, warmer, and prettier but can get muddy. Compare those to the newer Calibrated T-types in my new 335 which, of the three, have better articulation, and some might characterize as thinner and lifeless. I like them all for different reasons, and I think the Burstbucker Pros are exactly where they need to be for my tastes.

I guess it depends what guitar they're in. I didn't like them in a V, but I hear lots of people like them in a Les Paul.

The 61s weren't bad once I'd adjusted them. I was actually hesitant to put the SDs in, but then I thought, screw it, they sound incredible on YouTube. I've tried them with a bunch of different amps now, and they sound like Generic Pickups With Extra Mids no matter what I do to them. The only thing I haven't done is radically raise the pole pieces. Maybe I'll try that as a last-ditch attempt, but it seems odd that you'd have to radically f...k around with polepieces on a signature pickup to get something close to that signature tone. They don't come with a notice  that says "note that you have to radically raise all the polepieces to get anywhere close to the advertised sound".

I was surprised they didn't cut it.

[zigzag]

IMO, pickups are funny. They all have their characteristic sounds, but I notice subtle nuances every time I hear them that I didn't hear before. I'm sure that so much has to do with guitar and amp settings, but I also honestly believe what we hear, subjectively, changes, too.

And BTW, I've got my Burstbucker set so low on the neck position on the LP, I'm kinda afraid to go any lower, and the bridge position is set to approximate the volume level of the neck, so it's relatively low, also.  I'm also using a custom set of T-I flat wound strings.

Edited February 1, 2021 by zigzag

[SteveFord]

Audio is a very subjective thing and I recall reading a thread about how things are perceived depending upon your mood.

I know if I cranked my 60s neck Standard into my big Marshall within a minute a I wouldn't be thinking about pick ups.  Just let 'er rip.

[Pinch]

6 hours ago, SteveFord said:

Audio is a very subjective thing and I recall reading a thread about how things are perceived depending upon your mood.

I know if I cranked my 60s neck Standard into my big Marshall within a minute a I wouldn't be thinking about pick ups.  Just let 'er rip.

True. The original pickups go back in, though. Sounded a lot more Les Paul-y.

[Pinch]

On 1/20/2021 at 9:55 PM, Pinch said:

Oh, I'll be to-ing and fro-ing on the pickups, then install the new ones, change my mind, shell out more $, and most importantly: drive everyone around me crazy. 

It's my "new guitar" routine. 

I ended up doing EXACTLY that.

They pick up the sympathetic vibrations a lot better, too.

Of course, now I'm thinking I need one with 57 Classics... "Need", that's a funny word...

[SteveFord]

Uh oh...

I saw an intgruiging one: it looks like they're coming out with a 60s neck Gold Top Deluxe with the mini humbuckers.

Depending on the routing a set of cream colored P90s would drop right in.

[Pinch]

13 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Ok I ignored it as much as I can manage.  

1.  OCD stands for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.   So you're saying "As Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as I am..." which makes no sense.

2.  It is a disability, so saying "I'm so OCD" is exactly as insensitive as saying "I'm so Down syndrome" after doing something you think is "stupid". 

I'm going to assume that you've never known anyone who has real Obsessive Compulsive Disorder because if you have and you still throw that term around that way, it shows a real lack of empathy. 

/rant

I've been living with an OCD diagnosis for almost 30 years. I've had a second, third, and fifteenth opinion, too. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. It's disabling, all right.

I'm not downplaying it is all. We're supposed to drag everything into the open these days, right? Which is a good thing. Well, this is my contribution.

I understand that you meant well, though. No offense taken. But boy, did you put your foot in it 🙂

Edited February 7, 2021 by Pinch

[Pinch]

14 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

you are describing preferences that have nothing to do with OCD.   Not wanting a dead spot on your fretboard is something every guitar player prefers.   There is nothing irrational about that. I mean if you are diagnosed surely you know that. 

I give up. You're just looking to pick fights with people on here.

Let me spell it out for you: if you have OCD, deciding if you could live with X less sustain at spot Z because Y is so awesome everything else can get pretty ****ing complicated. That's the O in OCD. Checking it a million times until you're not sure if it's really bad or good enough, that's the C in OCD. The whole thing causes anxiety, which is the anxiety disorder OCD.

You apparently don't have it yourself, or you would understand. But you feel a need to crusade in the name of "good" - you've done it ever since you joined, bar the excellent contributions in the stupid jokes thread.

Stop it. You're out of your element, and you're being a ****.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Pinch

[SteveFord]

I'm not a doctor but I DID drive past a Holiday Inn Express yesterday.

I think Pinch's guitar will improve with age and a lot of playing time.

[Pinch]

29 minutes ago, SteveFord said:

I'm not a doctor but I DID drive past a Holiday Inn Express yesterday.

I think Pinch's guitar will improve with age and a lot of playing time.

I'm keeping it. There will be exactly zero instances where that one note will be a problem, even if I live to be a hundred. The guitar sounds great and plays great. I'll never be happy if I put everything under a microscope.

Lowered the 61s a bit more. I like them better than the Duncans. Would like to try BB 1+2 someday, but the 61s are pretty good.

 

[SteveFord]

I thought about that BB1/2 combo in the 60s Les Paul to see how much is due to the neck and how much is the pick up BUT I'm too lazy to do something like that and always keep the guitar the way they made them.  Amplifiers have all sorts of tone controls so fiddle with them, instead.

Stupor Bowl time so better go.

 

[Pinch]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:01 AM, SteveFord said:

I thought about that BB1/2 combo in the 60s Les Paul to see how much is due to the neck and how much is the pick up BUT I'm too lazy to do something like that and always keep the guitar the way they made them.  Amplifiers have all sorts of tone controls so fiddle with them, instead.

Stupor Bowl time so better go.

 

I FINALLY got it dialed in, so I'm keeping the 61s for now 🙂

Insane that they adjust them so high that the pole pieces pretty much touch the strings before they ship them. Not super easy to find the sweet spot either, but it can be done. As a PSA, know that you'll be fiddling with pickup height for a while if you get one of these.

[mihcmac]

I  adjust the bridge pickup close to maximum height, but no closer than about 3mm to the strings. Then adjust neck pickup, with switch in mid position, to where I get a nice balance from both pickups, usually lowering it.

[Pinch]

29 minutes ago, mihcmac said:

I  adjust the bridge pickup close to maximum height, but no closer than about 3mm to the strings. Then adjust neck pickup, with switch in mid position, to where I get a nice balance from both pickups, usually lowering it.

Mm. I usually end up with the bridge at 2 mm and the neck at 4 mm. Something like that.

[Pinch]

10 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

I found adjusting individual pole height can balance the volume across all 6 strings.  For example, if you've found the sweet spot height-wise, but the low E seems too loud and boomy compared to the other strings, you can lower that pole piece and leave the others where they are.  Anyone else bother with that?  

Sometimes. I read somewhere it somehow changes the magnetic field and not just the volume, so it affects tone as well. I couldn't tell you if there's anything to that, though.

Usually, if I do anything, I raise the pole pieces of the D string and the high E just a touch. D mainly because the G inext to it s always inordinately loud, and the E because it's usually just a little too quiet.

[rct]

Flush with the ring.  Takes about 8 seconds after the guitar is home.

rct