Tega.tm Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: Thanks for the the reply, my post about watching the video possibly sounded like I’m a YouTube give it a go kinda guy sorry, I’m well versed in setup and have been playing and setting up for many years. I was just trying to state I had done everything to Gibson spec and the guitar can’t play without issues. I have written all the measurements of the guitars string height at nut, action at 12th relief at 8th.. played all strings on all frets.. checking to rule out setup as the issue but found the neck was moving of its own accord and had written the new setup it had relaxed into then repeated the Gibson factory setup and so on.. to start with the guitar played in tune but wouldn’t play above 12th on any strings without fretting out.. and I the seen it had a noticeable hump going on.. to which I took it back.. to be told “no it’s fine but anything you want done will be chargeable works”.. I am not a fan of letting anyone else touch my guitars, cars, motorcycles, etc.. I do all works myself due to random issues that suddenly appear in someone else’s hands.. so I thought I would ask the question as I felt I was being fobbed off and also thought, I’ve never owned a Gibson before so maybe it need’s to settle more.. which was me trying to justify the problem in my own mind.. and basically they said yes to let it settle but spoke to me in quite a condescending manner which was annoying, but I thought ok I’ll follow your instructions… said thanks and took it back home.. unfortunately I’m not really a scene making type of person and like to think people are honest and good in general so I’ve not been as pro active or insistent as others would’ve been.. and I am now at this juncture where I feel taken advantage of because of my nature.. I have worked in hospitality when I was young and appreciate the sh*t customers can try and give so I try not to be that guy.. but it seems to be biting me in the ar*e.. i don’t mean that to sound like an insult or anything, just trying to explain a bit of where I’m at.. and like I said before if I can’t get it replaced for whatever reason I’ll just sort it myself.. but my point is I shouldn’t have to.. as i only bought it 31st December 2021 and these issues have happened in this short space of time, and if it was my first guitar I wouldn’t have noticed any tonal difference like the first guitar I bought as a boy that cost £40 and I played till it eventually gave up the ghost many years later by not being able to tune all chords but that was after many years of abuse.. I didn’t learn the conventional way due to circumstances,, I learned by ear and trial and error.. listening to songs off the radio and then figuring them out and writing them down so I could practice them.. so I trust my ears.. if it doesn’t sound right and I can’t have all cords in tune at the same time then something is not right.. I have played guitars with slightly twisted necks that have been ok and could ignore any slight tonal issues as these guitars were cheap and generally used for partying and getting passed round the fire. But I’m not willing to ignore any playability issue with a brand new Gibson custom. Again not trying to offend or anything just confused with this whole scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 Although by no means does this make me an expert.. as I’m not a luthier.. I’m a player.. I will take it to a luthier to look at and if they say it’s normal as the shop have said, then I will accept that and give it to the luthier to setup and will probably never do anything more than change the strings on that guitar as it will obviously not work the same way all my others work.. just out of interest.. anyone own a Les Paul custom that developed crazing/ cracking finish from the heel up one side all the way to the end of the fretboard after a couple of weeks? If this is as they say “normal” then I will put it down to experience and bow out quietly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Tega, from what you've written - you have a legitimate complaint. The problem with asking a technical question like this - some people on forums don't spend a lot of time reading long posts. So you get mixed responses. I'd hope no one would say a neck finish cracking up to the fretboard is normal, acceptable, or could be fixed for a few hundred dollars. Keep fighting with the retailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 6 hours ago, fortyearspickn said: Tega, from what you've written - you have a legitimate complaint. The problem with asking a technical question like this - some people on forums don't spend a lot of time reading long posts. So you get mixed responses. I'd hope no one would say a neck finish cracking up to the fretboard is normal, acceptable, or could be fixed for a few hundred dollars. Keep fighting with the retailer. Thanks for replying, this was my thinking, it just doesn’t sit well with me on a musician to musician sale, as we all know and want that one instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Tega, as I see it you have two options open to you. firstly the Gibson support route and as I mentioned earlier Gibson Europe will most probably want to ship it to Holland for inspection. It's worth emailing them, I've always found them pretty good to deal with. They will ask you to send them photographs first. Your second option is the legal route, you need to contact your local Trading Standards people, you'll find them at your local council offices, and take it from there. Personally, I'd contact Gibson support in the first instance, I'm fairly sure they will help you, and if you are still not satisfied you've still got the legal route against the shop, and having then done everything reasonably possible to have the fault rectified it will also strengthen your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, IanHenry said: Tega, as I see it you have two options open to you. firstly the Gibson support route and as I mentioned earlier Gibson Europe will most probably want to ship it to Holland for inspection. It's worth emailing them, I've always found them pretty good to deal with. They will ask you to send them photographs first. Your second option is the legal route, you need to contact your local Trading Standards people, you'll find them at your local council offices, and take it from there. Personally, I'd contact Gibson support in the first instance, I'm fairly sure they will help you, and if you are still not satisfied you've still got the legal route against the shop, and having then done everything reasonably possible to have the fault rectified it will also strengthen your case. 👍 sounds like a plan.. as tbh this has taken up too much of my time as it is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 From my own experience with shops, being in spain myself, just email Gibson support. With my first Lester.... Had little issues with original aftermarket pickups, shop didn't help in any way. Gibson europe did. On my second Les Paul a faulty bridge pickup. Didn't even consider to talk to the shop. After some mailing back and forth, Gibson EU ordered me a new pickup from the custom shop and sent it directly to me. As long it was purchased at an authorized dealership there should be no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Mr. C.O. Jones said: From my own experience with shops, being in spain myself, just email Gibson support. With my first Lester.... Had little issues with original aftermarket pickups, shop didn't help in any way. Gibson europe did. On my second Les Paul a faulty bridge pickup. Didn't even consider to talk to the shop. After some mailing back and forth, Gibson EU ordered me a new pickup from the custom shop and sent it directly to me. As long it was purchased at an authorized dealership there should be no problem. Thanks for the info, I had emailed Gibson who had said it wasn’t normal for the issues explained and they had said to take i back to the shop immediately for help with warranty issues so that’s what I’ve done and am now at this point as stated in this topic.. but I think I may have to give them a call.. but again I’m not rich or anything and I assume calling the Gibson Europe will be a fairly big bill to add to all the price hikes we’re all experiencing currently.. not being tight, just trying to follow the rules and being taken for a ride by the looks of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Tega.tm said: Thanks for the info, I had emailed Gibson who had said it wasn’t normal for the issues explained and they had said to take i back to the shop immediately for help with warranty issues so that’s what I’ve done and am now at this point as stated in this topic.. but I think I may have to give them a call.. but again I’m not rich or anything and I assume calling the Gibson Europe will be a fairly big bill to add to all the price hikes we’re all experiencing currently.. not being tight, just trying to follow the rules and being taken for a ride by the looks of things. I just had a look at my emails from Gibson Europe and one of them says to inquire with the shop if they can get a replacement or refund to me, so that seems that they didn’t even want it to be assessed.. my disabilities strike again and I have buggered up a straight forward replacement for some unknown reason 🤯🤦♂️.. any thoughts on how to salvage the situation.. although I’m sure I’ve told the shop Gibson have told me to return it as I had spoken to them not knowing how the process works and to be honest, which I explained to them, and they weren’t to happy about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Contact Gibson Europe again and explain that the shop refuses to play ball and were being downright awkward. Also, you didn't pay $5000 to make the shop happy, you paid it for them to make you happy. Edited March 6, 2022 by IanHenry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Yes Tega, I think most people would like to hear how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 22 hours ago, Farnsbarns said: Any news on this. I've been hoping this ends well. (I was going to say happy ending but that's just handing it to Bill). 12 hours ago, IanHenry said: Yes Tega, I think most people would like to hear how you get on. Hi, I’ve called the shop yesterday to enquire if the guitar has been returned to them yet and if I will get a copy of the report to keep with the guitar and was told this could be arranged and they will let me know when I can go and collect it. But I’ll try once more to get them to replace it and if “I can’t get no satisfaction” I’ll take it to their customer service and try Gibson again.. hopfully this will be resolved and I’ll be checking to see if the neck has moved anymore as I have all the details from previous checks written down.. so we shall see.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 So.. got it back from the shop today.. found a piece of paper in the case saying repair on it.. and it does now stay in tune.. but all the high strings are choking out all the way up the neck.. I checked the relief and it’s .010 on the low E and .003 on the high e.. what do you guys and gals think..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Raise the bridge on the high e side a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: So.. got it back from the shop today.. found a piece of paper in the case saying repair on it.. and it does now stay in tune.. but all the high strings are choking out all the way up the neck.. I checked the relief and it’s .010 on the low E and .003 on the high e.. what do you guys and gals think..? STOP MEASURING RELIEF IN TWO P LACES. RELIEF IS MEASURED FROM A STATIC POINT UP TO A VA\RIABLE POINT, THAT IS, FRET SURFACE UP TO THE DIAMETER OF THE STRING. NOBODY KNOWS WHAT GAUGE STRINGS YOU ARE USING THEREFORE IT IS A WORTHLESS MEASUREMENT ON THE OTHER SIDE. Relief: Capo at first, right finger on last full fret, fat E and Fat E ONLY, feeler at fret Gibson says(I don't remember, 7 - 9 somewhere) under FAT E. DONE. Strings are too low. There is a number, measured at a fret, AFTER RELIEF IS SET. 14 - 17, somewhere in there. Measure at that fret, set low E, measure at that fret other side, set high E. DONE. Intonate. DONE. Stop measuring stuff that isn't part of how guitars work. If you came to me with this "problem" I would try to gently explain and after another time I would not take your business any more. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 48 minutes ago, rct said: STOP MEASURING RELIEF IN TWO P LACES. RELIEF IS MEASURED FROM A STATIC POINT UP TO A VA\RIABLE POINT, THAT IS, FRET SURFACE UP TO THE DIAMETER OF THE STRING. NOBODY KNOWS WHAT GAUGE STRINGS YOU ARE USING THEREFORE IT IS A WORTHLESS MEASUREMENT ON THE OTHER SIDE. Relief: Capo at first, right finger on last full fret, fat E and Fat E ONLY, feeler at fret Gibson says(I don't remember, 7 - 9 somewhere) under FAT E. DONE. Strings are too low. There is a number, measured at a fret, AFTER RELIEF IS SET. 14 - 17, somewhere in there. Measure at that fret, set low E, measure at that fret other side, set high E. DONE. Intonate. DONE. Stop measuring stuff that isn't part of how guitars work. If you came to me with this "problem" I would try to gently explain and after another time I would not take your business any more. rct I’m just following what Gibsons master luthier (Jim De Cola) says to do, which is check both fat and thin strings relief to check if they are within tolerance.. which is between .012 as highest tolerance and .005 as lowest tolerance. Now maybe I’m getting it wrong but if it’s not within that tolerance bracket then something is not right?. I’m sorry if I seem to be annoying but I’m not sure why if I’m following Gibson procedure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 15 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: I’m just following what Gibsons master luthier (Jim De Cola) says to do, which is check both fat and thin strings relief to check if they are within tolerance.. which is between .012 as highest tolerance and .005 as lowest tolerance. Now maybe I’m getting it wrong but if it’s not within that tolerance bracket then something is not right?. I’m sorry if I seem to be annoying but I’m not sure why if I’m following Gibson procedure. I’m using regular slinky 10’s. But it doesn’t matter now as I can see I’m just p**sing everyone off now so I’ll sign off from this and wish you all well and thanks for all advice and help/thoughts. take it easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 I'm sorry buddy, but you did ask what we think. That's what I think. I get that he's a master luthier, he has to make everything he does more masterful than just setting up a guitar, which is not at all rocket science. We(guitar players) have been setting up guitars since there were guitars. We have just capo'd and fingered and measured at the 8th using .010 on a Fender(whichever fret and whichever measurement for Gibson and Martin) and our relief is done, always has been, always will be. No sitting around for three days while it "settles", finding some tolerance of perfection on the other side, and all this other nonsense. It's just a guitar. You will measure and micrometer and calculate yourself to madness once you start trying to out perfect a perfect guitar, which is in some way, in some area of all three measurements that matter, imperfect by design. Good luck. I hope you get the thing either set up right or returned. As for choking out up the neck, your strings are too low rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo68 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 10:43 PM, Tega.tm said: That was probably me 😂.. aye that’s exactly what’s happened but it’s normal and then they pointed out I’d taken the pick guard off and put a big chip in the Finish.. (indent from sort finish when put on as it is smooth and shaped just like the mount 🤔) also nothing was said about the neck hump or anything to do with playability.. just pointing out in a smug way that basically I am being fussy and any issue is my fault.. I’m at a loss statuatory rights 12 months take it back and get a refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 adjust the neck, adjust string height, season to taste ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 10:13 AM, Karloff said: adjust the neck, adjust string height, season to taste ... Tega has left the building. I think we over-helped him. Adjust new and string height - I think that was tried before he came here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 To the OP & anyone else who’s interested… Check out this You Tube, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said: Tega has left the building. I think we over-helped him. Adjust new and string height - I think that was tried before he came here. lol, gotcha ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 Just thought I’d give a closing conundrum for you all.. after all the issues I’ve stated the wood fairy must have heard me and straightened the neck over night.. ?? i am dumbfounded! I got the guitar back from the shop and although it hadn’t changed any.. I spent 3 nights going over everything and got it nearly setup so it just sounded a bit off and was still choking out above the 14th on all strings.. I tried raising the action etc.. but it was to high to play properly.. it was a bit like my classical guitar.. I then left it over night and then took it to my friends house for him to see.. took her out the case and I proceeded to check tuning then we jammed for an hour or so.. low and behold no more choking out and neck was straight ( believe me when I say this.. that neck has been twisting about like it must have thought it was still on the tree.. I have never seen any guitar do the things this has done!) obviously baffled my friend and myself to the point of laughing whilst scratching our heads.. I was then able to lower the action to around 2mm with no issues whatsoever and tweaked the intonation to as good as it can be.. the nut slots are slightly tight but it tunes and more importantly has stayed in tune for almost a week now and has started to open up a bit. again no idea wtf has happened and touch wood the neck has figured out where it’s supposed to be and supposed to be doing now. 🤯😂 but so far so good 👍 again thanks for all the help guys and gals and sorry for hassles and now I definitely want to keep her after this magical mystery tour although I don’t understand why I am putting it down to the wood not quite finished seasoning or the trip from Nashville to Nottingham uk introduced more moisture. but she’s tuned across the board and playing now so happy days obviously any ideas or contact details for the wood fairy are welcome 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Well good.. Maybe the guitar was testing you to see if you were worthy of it 😄 Now it will be loyal to you for the rest of its life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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