Eric Clapton’s Woman Tone

[merciful-evans]

On 12/29/2022 at 4:22 PM, Whitefang said:

Lemme throw in another wrench.  🥴

I'd say the only other unique tone in that time period was Randy California's.

                             

Randy too, was pretty unique for his time.

Whitefang

I concur with that. He used the neck PU so effectively. 

[merciful-evans]

On 12/28/2022 at 5:51 PM, kidblast said:

To Eric, it was a vox humana, akin to a sultry feminine ooooh with a generous dose of vibrato.

 

It does sound very similar

 

[Pinch]

On 12/28/2022 at 6:51 PM, kidblast said:

 

To Eric, it was a vox humana, akin to a sultry feminine ooooh with a generous dose of vibrato. 

 

That's a pretty pretentious way to say "neck pickup, roll back the tone to taste". 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Here’s the thing, your not Eric and you don’t have the gear he was playing with. Go make your own tone.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[jdgm]

On 12/29/2022 at 4:22 PM, Whitefang said:

Lemme throw in another wrench.  🥴

I'd say the only other unique tone in that time period was Randy California's.                          

Randy too, was pretty unique for his time.

Whitefang

1 - Disagree.   Hendrix, Peter Green.....Kossoff was developing the tone you hear at the very start of Free's 1st album.   Reputedly Clapton asked him how he did his vibrato.   John Cipollina to this day sounds bloody amazing on the 1st Quicksilver LP.   Bloomfield was nearing the top of his game.

2 - Agree strongly - California was unique and ahead of his time. He had chops, talent, vision and an echoplex.

Edited January 1, 2023 by jdgm

[Valeriy]

Hello guys,
 I with interest read this topic and some info. I was a little amused that the Marshall JTM45 Clapton was using would have the tube KT66s instead of the usual EL 34s or EL 84s, as stated in one of the articles here. Of course, all these details can give a different sound.

Further, each guitar, even if it is a solid body, can be individual. For example, Brian May's guitar also has its own sound, but he achieved this, I think, mainly due to the body of the guitar. I read, to made it, he and his father used a 100-year-old fireplace board, i.e., well dried. Second, he tried to play other guitars, but he could not choose a guitar from other manufacturers and in the end he returned to his own one. It seems his 100-year-old wood body proved to be more effective  than any known upgrades and adjustments to amps and preamps. By the way, this confirms that the good tone, first of all, depends on the quality of the source, and the guitar body is also a source or next to it, near pickups.

But generally speaking, these methods, especially correction in amplifiers, replacement of tubes, etc., are all this outdated now, one might say. The perfect pickup, and therefore the perfect electric guitar, as ghost_of_fl  asked me in a recent thread, I'll add to this, this guitar with this pickup should also be able to easily record straight into the computer (its sound card) in good (studio) quality, without any combo amp cabinets and microphones.

Happy New Year everyone! Now I'm leaving and will be online somewhere after the 5th of January.
 

[Whitefang]

15 hours ago, jdgm said:

2 - Agree strongly - California was unique and ahead of his time. He had chops, talent, vision and an echoplex.

I still think at the time( 'round '68) California's tone was different from most others, who kept trying to sound like Hendrix.   And although there is the fact that Hendrix and California did earlier meet and knew each other, Randy was content to have his own sound.  And his use of sustain was far different from most contemporaries at the time.  And seeing Spirit live a few times I can only say the only "device" I saw on stage was some kind of electronic component Randy used at the beginning and end of the tune "It's All The Same".

54 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

   A lot of people pick up a guitar and they want to sounds like Slash or Eddie Van Halen or Jimmy Page, so they will seek out the pickups those players used.   

 

Wouldn't it be funny if that "sound" they're seeking was done in the studio with a guitar that still had it's original pick-ups?   

What I remember most about going to concerts was that the "sound" the lead player's guitar made was FAR different from what we heard on the recordings.  I NEVER heard Jimi's guitar sound the same live as it did on whichever song he played from a studio recording.  Same with Steve Howe,  Drew Abbott,  Al Di Meola,   McLaughlin,  and yes, Randy California too.

Whitefang

[merciful-evans]

Clapton is unclear in his description in the 1st vid.

He says:

"the woman tone is produced by using either the bass pickup (pointing at neck PU) or the lead pickup but with all the bass off. In fact if you use both pickups you should take all the bass off on the tone control. That is to put... to turn it down to 1 or oh (0)". 

Its like he's describing a bass cut instead of a treble cut. "Take all the bass off" means put it on full treble, but then says the opposite with "turn it down to 1..." 

In conclusion:

#1/ Use either the neck PU or the bridge PU, or both PUs. 

#2/ Either turn the tone control all the way down, or all the way up.

Yes. Thanks Eric.  

[merciful-evans]

18 hours ago, jdgm said:

1 - Disagree.   Hendrix, Peter Green.....Kossoff was developing the tone you hear at the very start of Free's 1st album.   Reputedly Clapton asked him how he did his vibrato.   John Cipollina to this day sounds bloody amazing on the 1st Quicksilver LP.   Bloomfield was nearing the top of his game.

2 - Agree strongly - California was unique and ahead of his time. He had chops, talent, vision and an echoplex.

re: Cipollina John. I was always of the opinion he was using a pedal for vibrato. I could be wrong, but it seems to be on double stops too. That's still possible, but seems too consistent to be manually produced. 

[jdgm]

29 minutes ago, merciful-evans said:

re: Cipollina John. I was always of the opinion he was using a pedal for vibrato. I could be wrong, but it seems to be on double stops too. That's still possible, but seems too consistent to be manually produced. 

Voila!......

http://www.johncipollina.com/rock.html

http://www.standelamps.com/support/schematics/documents/1969/modulux_opinst_1969.pdf

Edited January 1, 2023 by jdgm

[Sgt. Pepper]

58 minutes ago, merciful-evans said:

Clapton is unclear in his description in the 1st vid.

He says:

"the woman tone is produced by using either the bass pickup (pointing at neck PU) or the lead pickup but with all the bass off. In fact if you use both pickups you should take all the bass off on the tone control. That is to put... to turn it down to 1 or oh (0)". 

Its like he's describing a bass cut instead of a treble cut. "Take all the bass off" means put it on full treble, but then says the opposite with "turn it down to 1..." 

In conclusion:

#1/ Use either the neck PU or the bridge PU, or both PUs. 

#2/ Either turn the tone control all the way down, or all the way up.

Yes. Thanks Eric.  

Eric was probably high as a kite in that video clip. But yes if you take all the bass off, the opposite of bass is treble. He basically made made a muddy tone at 0 or 1 on the tone knob.

[Valeriy]

On 1/1/2023 at 6:14 PM, ghost_of_fl said:

... You mentioned the Brian May guitar as an example.   Wood aside, he used Burns Tri-Sonic pickups, and the wiring incorporates an individual phase switch for each pickup, so he can reverse phase in any pickup combination.  Personally I think that has a LOT more to do with the guitars unique sounds than the centerblock and neck being made from really dry wood.   

 

 

As for out-of-phase in pickups connection, well, yes, it certainly changes the sound a lot. And in Stratocaster guitars, this is long ago as the standard connection for a middle pickup mixed with the rest. But in the case of May's guitar, something else is interesting, as I said, he tried to play other guitars, but always returned to his own home made.  And May himself said in one interview that his favorite tone in his guitar is from mixed pickups Middle and Bridge, which are in phase  🙂. Therefore, I think that the dry wood of the body and the 100-year-old wood in the neck in his guitar also play a certain role and perhaps not even the last for his own and unusual tone, otherwise he would simply move to any good Strat guitar with the same out-of-phases as in this his first guitar.

[Valeriy]

On 1/1/2023 at 2:05 PM, Valeriy said:

...But generally speaking, these methods, especially correction in amplifiers, replacement of tubes, etc., are all this outdated now, one might say. The perfect pickup, and therefore the perfect electric guitar, as ghost_of_fl  asked me in a recent thread, I'll add to this, this guitar with this pickup should also be able to easily record straight into the computer (its sound card) in good (studio) quality, without any combo amp cabinets and microphones.
 

Here I hurried a little, sorry. Of course, between the guitar and the computer there can be any good preamp, equalizer, as well as any favorite guitar effect-device, flanger, chorus, etc., to get a character or unique own sound. But a guitar with the perfect pickup shouldn't require all those bulky combo amp cabinets, 21st century, folks . And all these extra-devices in home studios (diboxes, kempers, etc.) are, as the computer scientists say, "crutches". Now home computers are as powerful and with the same programs as in any pro studio. You might not believe it, but in that Pink Floyd cover track I linked (in "I Apologize" thread,), I used an integrated sound card, in the motherboard for about $150 (MSI, B460 Torpedo). And my Strat model guitar (Korea) is also only about $130, also, I deliberately did not use guitar box-effects, only a clean sound to understand what kind of own guitar sound with my pickup. Well, of course, the pickup should be as active, with a differential amplifier as in EMG humbuckers.  

[Valeriy]

3 hours ago, Valeriy said:

As for out-of-phase in pickups connection, well, yes, it certainly changes the sound a lot. And in Stratocaster guitars, this is long ago as the standard connection for a middle pickup mixed with the rest. But in the case of May's guitar, something else is interesting, as I said, he tried to play other guitars, but always returned to his own home made.  And May himself said in one interview that his favorite tone in his guitar is from mixed pickups Middle and Bridge, which are in phase  🙂. Therefore, I think that the dry wood of the body and the 100-year-old wood in the neck in his guitar also play a certain role and perhaps not even the last for his own and unusual tone, otherwise he would simply move to any good Strat guitar with the same out-of-phases as in this his first guitar.

for some reason I couldn't edit , I wanted to say that in Stratocaster guitars, this is long ago as the standard connection for a middle pickup (with reverse winding) mixed with the rest.  Peter Green's tone is well known too. I.e., May could easily make this antiphase for the middle pickup in any good Strat, but he preferred to return to his Red Special guitar.

[Whitefang]

Maybe it was my cheap "Meijer Thrifty Acres" computer speakers, but it sounded like a hollow body electric trying to sound acoustic to me.

Whitefang

[Valeriy]

23 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

I must confess, I did not download the recording when you posted it originally - I just did now, and gave it a listen.  LINK 

Yes, that's exactly what it sounds like.  So I guess you are mainly going for the "electric guitar that sounds like an acoustic guitar" thing.   To my ear, that sound has some booming bass to it.  You could easily tame that with EQ.  And a little compression wouldn't hurt.   I'd like to hear what it sounds like with those changes.  

My main concern though, if that's your goal, is that the recording sample sounds to me more like a nylon string than steel string on the lower notes - I don't hear much acoustic definition on the bass strings.  

Wow, ghost_of_fl, you gave here that link to my guitar track. So, you liked my guitar to some extent, thank you. That's right, as you said, I also didn't really like as regards the sound in the bass strings. And here are several reasons.
But this recording was made for a purpose, here I deliberately chose the worst conditions to know what my pickup is capable of providing a guitar sound. Although I will clarify, despite the integrated card, which is not very quoted for recording, it turned out to be quite good in terms of parameters. In the recording, it allowed to make 24 bits and 192 kHz, quite the studio standard for today. It turned out that in modern motherboards for computer, the sound section began to be done much better in the last 2 or 3 years. And it was interesting to check it in practice, which I did by recording this track with the above 24 bits and 192 kHz.

So, it is quite possible that integrated sound cards are no longer a weak link for recording. Next, the weak point in my guitar is that it has 3 humbuckers, i.e., a triple negative effect of their magnetic fields on the strings. And I immediately noticed some deterioration in sound when I put the 3rd (middle) humbucker on, even though my pickups have an improved magnetic system. I fixed this a little by moving the middle pickup as far away from the strings as possible and increasing the gain in the active part of this pickup. But it is quite possible that a 2-pickup guitar with my 2 humbuckers will sound even more beautiful. To some extent, this can be judged by the video that I gave in the topic "Have a Merry "Beatles Guitar" Christmas!!":  https://forum.gibson.com/topic/172012-have-a-merry-beatles-guitar-christmas/   (Posted December 24, 2022). That guitar has similar humbuckers, but two ones. Jan seems is quite glad about its sound. My other 2-pickup guitar does not work yet, the neck is very bent, I do not know when I will fix it. Although an old recording of this guitar has been preserved, this guitar also sounds great for me, if interested, I can provide a link, but the recording is a little low quality.

And thirdly, this guitar with 3 humbuckers has very old strings, probably already 3 years old. I also deliberately left them on the guitar to understand how my pickup would play them in recording. And besides, the guitar itself, as I said, is cheap, the body seems to be made of birch, what seems to be considered a simple log for kindling the stove ☺️.

[Karloff]

On 12/29/2022 at 11:22 AM, Whitefang said:

Lemme throw in another wrench.  🥴

I'd say the only other unique tone in that time period was Randy California's.

                             

Randy too, was pretty unique for his time.

Whitefang

what a talent. always was a Spirit fan ...

[Karloff]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:21 PM, Mr. Gibson said:

I can’t see why a thread that goes off topic is a bad thing that deserves a vacation for a poster. Unless it’s a nasty thing they said, then ya they should take a leave of absence for awhile.