duane v Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 So...... I purchased a bare right handed Hofner HCT-500/1 Contemporary Violin Cavern Bass Sunburst from a Luthier in California that used to be a Hofner Warranty Repair Service Person for $250.... All it has is the tuners and he told me it's brand new. The goal is to make it a Lefty so I ordered some spruce material to patch the control panel hole, ordered the Nitro transparent red and butterscotch lacquer for the sunburst effect, (I already have black nitro). Ordered three cans of clear nitro. Ordered rosewood neck binding to replace the white stuff. I ordered the pickup surround bezel (that was f-ing expensive). Fortunately I already have the diamond pups, control panel and I know I have a tailpiece somewhere and hopefully I can find it. Where I'm getting conflicting info is painting nitro over the poly finish. I was told by a couple of cabinet / furniture makers is to sand the poly with 800 grit to give the nitro a good mechanical bite and to minimize the sanding witness lines. And as long as the poly is completely cured you will not have no issues. A few Luthiers stated strip the whole thing and start form scratch (which I do not want to do). Do any of you have first hand experience doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 man, you really stay busy ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Karloff said: man, you really stay busy ... LOL!!!! This is my last major refinishing project, as I have all the Beatle guitars I want. ... Thank god I don't like Ricks and Gretsch Guitars or I would never be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 38 minutes ago, duane v said: LOL!!!! This is my last major refinishing project, as I have all the Beatle guitars I want. ... Thank god I don't like Ricks and Gretsch Guitars or I would never be done. I'd love to have a Rickenbacher someday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I once stripped a Squire P bass and then stained and finished with nitro.. I have never even thought of spraying nitro over the top of poly before though... I cant see nitro curing on a poly finish properly as it wont sink in to the wood first and get a good bond, it might just flake off. And if you rough it up too much its not going to look very good is it? Also, and I know this is probably not that much of a consideration but I just wouldnt want that much finish on a guitar. Some poly finishes are almost like having a layer of plastic over your guitar. I do know a guy here in the UK who makes his own Nito spray cans. He really knows his stuff. I could ask him if you want or give you his website details and you could ask yourself. I would strip it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Rabs said: I once stripped a Squire P bass and then stained and finished with nitro.. I have never even thought of spraying nitro over the top of poly before though... I cant see nitro curing on a poly finish properly as it wont sink in to the wood first and get a good bond, it might just flake off. And if you rough it up too much its not going to look very good is it? Also, and I know this is probably not that much of a consideration but I just wouldnt want that much finish on a guitar. Some poly finishes are almost like having a layer of plastic over your guitar. I do know a guy here in the UK who makes his own Nito spray cans. He really knows his stuff. I could ask him if you want or give you his website details and you could ask yourself. I would strip it. rabs That would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Save yourself some bitter disappointment, Duane. Strip it and paint it. The nitro on top of poly never, as far as I know, works. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, duane v said: rabs That would be great What you want me to ask? This is his site https://manchesterguitartech.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just now, Rabs said: What you want me to ask? This is his site https://manchesterguitartech.co.uk/ Rabs Ask the below: If I sand a poly finished guitar with 800 grit and shoot it first with nitro paint / lacquer then 10-12 coats of nitro clear will it all stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just now, duane v said: Rabs Ask the below: If I sand a poly finished guitar with 800 grit and shoot it first with nitro paint / lacquer then 10-12 coats of nitro clear will it all stick. Actually I just did a quick search on another forum im on. A UK one called The Fretboard. He actually answered in a thread that yes, he has done it before and it worked. And he put a link to his site where he shows the a guitar he did it on https://manchesterguitartech.co.uk/2011/04/11/shell-pink-stratocaster-refinish/ In his post he says Yes I painted this over the original black finish I keyed it with 800 grit paper, then primer, colour and clear coat. So there you go from someone who has done it.. Apparently it will work. Id still strip it 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, Rabs said: Actually I just did a quick search on another forum im on. A UK one called The Fretboard. He actually answered in a thread that yes, he has done it before and it worked. And he put a link to his site where he shows the a guitar he did it on https://manchesterguitartech.co.uk/2011/04/11/shell-pink-stratocaster-refinish/ In his post he says Yes I painted this over the original black finish I keyed it with 800 grit paper, then primer, colour and clear coat. So there you go from someone who has done it.. Apparently it will work. Id still strip it 🙂 AHHH Thanks !!!!! And by luck I have one full can of clear cellulous sanding sealer I never used. Thanks for finding the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, duane v said: AHHH Thanks !!!!! And by luck I have one full can of clear cellulous sanding sealer I never used. Thanks for finding the info. No worries... From what he says on the web site, one of the main things (as with most finishing) is to get the surface as flat as possible. I scuff-sanded the black using 800 grit paper and filled any dings using car body filler. I then primed (my White Primer) and sanded smooth repeatedly until the surface was 100% blemish-free. Next step was to spray a few coats of Shell Pink until the colour was uniform and opaque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rabs said: No worries... From what he says on the web site, one of the main things (as with most finishing) is to get the surface as flat as possible. I scuff-sanded the black using 800 grit paper and filled any dings using car body filler. I then primed (my White Primer) and sanded smooth repeatedly until the surface was 100% blemish-free. Next step was to spray a few coats of Shell Pink until the colour was uniform and opaque Which is why on the clear coat I put 12..... Gives me wiggle room so that I don't sand through the clear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Here's the husk I'll be working with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 How are you planning on replacing the fretboard binding without removing the frets? Also keep in mind if you’re planning on using rattle cans they are going to be very impractical for spraying a burst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 7:04 AM, Dub-T-123 said: How are you planning on replacing the fretboard binding without removing the frets? Also keep in mind if you’re planning on using rattle cans they are going to be very impractical for spraying a burst The fretboard binding can be removed and replaced without removing the frets. I don't see the impracticability spraying a burst with rattle cans as long as you make stencils and raise them off the body and neck 2-3 inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 15 hours ago, duane v said: I don't see the impracticability spraying a burst with rattle cans as long as you make stencils and raise them off the body and neck 2-3 inches. Good plan! A bit like photographic dodging & burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 You're nuts, Duane. I mean, you know, in a good sorta way. Great project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 I've been told.. lol But the amount of money I have saved doing mods and repairs myself doesn't seem so crazy.... Though I did think spraying nitro in a garage could be a bit over board but after buying all the PPE and two portable paint booths (big and small), I don't feel so overboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 I'm also finishing up a les paul project for my wifes sons birthday that's coming up. I purchased a 2nd Gibson body with a big knot on the cap.... Drilled all the holes and cavities myself without a template and carved a neck pocket for an off brand explorer neck,,,, Did a root beer burst .... It looks pretty good... All that's left is a setup. So its half Gibson and half something else... lol I did the colors with water base shoe dye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 12 minutes ago, duane v said: I'm also finishing up a les paul project for my wifes sons birthday that's coming up. I purchased a 2nd Gibson body with a big knot on the cap.... Drilled all the holes and cavities myself without a template and carved a neck pocket for an off brand explorer neck,,,, Did a root beer burst .... It looks pretty good... All that's left is a setup. So its half Gibson and half something else... lol I did the colors with water base shoe dye. Pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 On 2/14/2023 at 1:04 PM, duane v said: The fretboard binding can be removed and replaced without removing the frets. I don't see the impracticability spraying a burst with rattle cans as long as you make stencils and raise them off the body and neck 2-3 inches. No offense but I’m not optimistic about any of your plans for this one. You’re gearing up for a hack job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 19 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said: No offense but I’m not optimistic about any of your plans for this one. You’re gearing up for a hack job No offense taken, but anything I do unless it's an emergency fix isn't a hack job.... I try to make sure the finish result is above par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 2:16 PM, duane v said: I did the colors with water base shoe dye. That's crazy and nice. Your idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, duane v said: No offense taken, but anything I do unless it's an emergency fix isn't a hack job.... I try to make sure the finish result is above par. It doesn’t seem like you’ve thought it through but maybe you’ve got an idea I haven’t thought of. binding is normally installed where it sits slightly proud and is then scraped/sanded perfectly flush. You don’t have that option with the frets installed. The radius of the fretboard means you would theoretically be ripping the binding with one side having an angle to roughly match the fretboard radius. You’d have to rip that angle right up to the point where the binding wraps around the bottom of the fretboard, then leave that part wider and 90°, then back to the angle for the other side of the fretboard. If you somehow do that perfectly, it should be extremely difficult to get binding past the fret ends into the channel. So imo with all that considered it’s either a hack job or a refret unless you have a different idea. I guess theoretically you could notch the binding around each fret and scrape it between the frets. Probably still not a great outcome and probably still easier to refret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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