Factory installed electronics

[MissoulaFlood]

Hi there. New to this forum and currently looking at acquiring a J45 to go along with my Martin 00 and OM. Found a 2012 TV that does not have factory installed pickup. The Standard and Original 50s that I've looked at had UST. When did Gibson start offering electronics on the J45 models?  Not a huge deal breaker for me either way, but nice to understand a little bit about how the J45s have evolved and which direction I want to go. 

thanks you kindly.

[zombywoof]

In terms of Bozeman-made J45s the main difference you will run into other than neck carves will be whether it sports the Standard X bracing or the wider angle AJ style bracing such as the J45 TV had.  As each has their following, I    would recommend you get your hands on a couple of examples of both. 

When it comes to factory installed UST pickups (which I assume s what you are talking about) the earliest J45 I have run into with that feature was a 1999 which had a Fishman UST. That does not mean they were not installed earlier just that I have not seen them.  Other than that, as I have spent more time with Kalamazoo-made guitars you will have to wait for others to chime in.

Edited February 19, 2023 by zombywoof

[QuestionMark]

Keep in mind that even after Gibson began installing pickups in acoustics  in their factory, not every acoustic had a factory installed pickup.  Some acoustics still came with no pickup.  And, keep in mind even when a factory installed pickup was in an acoustic, some players changed the pickup to a different pickup they liked better or had it taken out.  And, some with no factory installed pickups had their own luthier install a pickup.  

Also, keep in mind that Gibson actually started installing pickups on acoustics circa the early-mid 50s with their j-160 model.

Like anything else, nothing is clear cut.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by QuestionMark

[MissoulaFlood]

Thanks for replies. I guess I was puzzled since all the other TVs I had looked at had the factory installed pickup. Now just trying to decide between a Standard, a True Vintage,  the 50s Original and Vintage. My Les Paul Jr has the 'old-style' logo and I like that they's offered this on some of the acoustics. I've owned a few Les Pauls but this will be my first Gibson acoustic.

[BluesKing777]

 

Gibson Montana began putting Baggs Element undersaddle pickups in the Standard Series acoustics about 2008 - the J45 Standard, Blues King L-00, Hummingbird Standard and various others.

If the guitar you are looking at has no pickup, you could just get a tech to install a K&K, a far nicer pickup....my opinion.

 

BluesKing777.

 

[Larsongs]

If you’re considering new…  Sweetwater has a Custom Shop that can do just about anything including installing Electronics..

I’m looking at a new Martin D-28 Std.. They will install an L.R. Baggs System for $200.00….  And it doesn’t affect the Factory Warranty.. 

[fortyearspickn]

It is my understanding that the True Vintage Line - which included several models (H'Bird, SJ200) did NOT come with any installed electronics, in a tip of the hat to the fact that the models that inspired them - did not Coming from the pre-PU era.     If you have seen TVs with electronics on board, chances are they were installed after market - like  you're thinking of doing.  Regardless,  the TVs  are a very good choice.  The Vintage line, which followed is also well-regarded. Main difference being a baked (torrified) top. 

[zombywoof]

The oldest acoustic instrument with a pickup I ever got my hands on was a late-1920s Stromberg tenor banjo which sported a large electro-magnetic pickup.  The thing still worked and was essentially the first transducer pickup.  While it was said they offered the pickup in a guitar I have never seen one.

The thing is though every description I have ever seen of any J45 notes whether it comes with a factory installed pickup.  If there is a aftermarket pickup installed that is also generally noted.  So, it is easy enough to figure out.  

In terms of logos, as far as I know, Bozeman acoustics go with either the script logo used from 1932 to 1946 or the block letter style which showed up by the early-1950s with the dot over the "i" separated from the G and open "b" and "o".  The oldest style of block letter logo would have the dot over the "i" connected to the "G" while a later style adopted in the 1960s will have no dot over the "i" and a closed "b" and "o".  Now who's on first?

Edited February 20, 2023 by zombywoof

[Murph]

14 hours ago, QuestionMark said:

Like anything else, nothing is clear cut.

There ya go.

If you're completely confused, you've got it figured out...

[fortyearspickn]

Some question whether Ben Franklin was the first to discover electricity.    

My contention is - he's the first to do it without getting electrocuted. 

[egoidealmusic]

Here's a vote for the 50s.  Absolutely love mine.  Installed pickup is pretty good, but not fantastic, but I augment with a soundhole pickup.

[MissoulaFlood]

Ha! And that is EXACTLY what I did earlier today. It is essentially brand new condition. So far, I'm super happy with this and think it will make a nice compliment to my Martin OM and 00. The action is just a tad too low for my liking. I'll play it 'as is' and see where it goes. Perhaps a new saddle down the road. Thanks everyone for your comments and guidance. 

 

 

 

[Silversurfer]

If you’ve found a J-45 that’s right for you and the price is right, don’t the let the lack of a pickup change your mind. The Baggs Element UST that comes stock on many standard models currently is a good pickup in that it allows you to play at higher volumes without feedback. But the tone is typical UST piezo, with that annoying , zingy quack that doesn’t sound natural.  Lots of good alternatives out there depending on your needs. I went with a Schatten HFN Active in my J-45 and I’m loving it so far.

[MissoulaFlood]

Yea, it has the Baggs VTC. I haven't plugged it in yet but will change it if needed. I have an older Fishman UST in a Martin 000 that I've run thru a Strymon Iridium and FRFR speaker and it's pretty decent. I'll play around with that setup initially and see where I end up. 

[motorcitychick]

I have on order a M2M J180 based off of the Everly Brothers model.  I specifically ordered it without any pickups installed on it.  I wanted a pure acoustic guitar.  I should have it sometime this spring.  It takes about a year to get it after ordering in it.

[Silversurfer]

You’ll get different opinions on this, but I found removing the UST made a difference in my unplugged tone and once I heard it, I had a hard time going back. See if it makes any difference on your guitar. It may or may not.

[Guithartic]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:03 AM, Silversurfer said:

You’ll get different opinions on this, but I found removing the UST made a difference in my unplugged tone and once I heard it, I had a hard time going back. See if it makes any difference on your guitar. It may or may not.

I’m assuming you just pulled the white transducer cable out of the hole and let it sit in the body. When you do this, is there still another pickup that works, besides the UST?

[Guithartic]

On 2/20/2023 at 11:05 PM, MissoulaFlood said:

Yea, it has the Baggs VTC. I haven't plugged it in yet but will change it if needed. I have an older Fishman UST in a Martin 000 that I've run thru a Strymon Iridium and FRFR speaker and it's pretty decent. I'll play around with that setup initially and see where I end up. 

So you can get a good tone with an electric guitar amp/cab sim and FRFR speaker?

I usually play electrics, but I just got a J-45 with the LR Baggs Element, and I thought I’d have to get an acoustic amp. 

Maybe I can use my Universal Audio Dream ‘65 and FRFR speaker. 

[kidblast]

2 hours ago, Guithartic said:

So you can get a good tone with an electric guitar amp/cab sim and FRFR speaker?

I usually play electrics, but I just got a J-45 with the LR Baggs Element, and I thought I’d have to get an acoustic amp. 

Maybe I can use my Universal Audio Dream ‘65 and FRFR speaker. 

LR Baggs are decent sounding pickups.

I have a Loudbox Artits and the Fender Acoustasonic JR.

They both are pretty good acoustic amps.

[Guithartic]

1 hour ago, kidblast said:

LR Baggs are decent sounding pickups.

I have a Loudbox Artits and the Fender Acoustasonic JR.

They both are pretty good acoustic amps.

Wow, those amps sure differ in price. The Acoustasonic amps seem pretty affordable. I was hoping to get the go-ahead from seasoned players to use a Universal Audio Dream '65 (Fender Deluxe Reverb amp/cab/IR sim pedal) or Lion '68 (Marshall amp/cap/IR sim pedal) into a Fender Flat Response speaker (Fender Tone Master FR-12) or a Quilter Sound Company PA speaker (QSC CP8). That's how I run my electric guitars, and it would be great to hear that it's acceptable for acoustic guitars, not just possible, but considered a legit way to do it.  Maybe I'll start a new thread about it.

Edited February 27 by Guithartic

[kidblast]

for in home use the Fender is a good choice

if the plan is to do some solo gigging, you'd probably favor the Fishman Loudbox Artist.

IMHO the fender on board effects I like better.

 

 

[Silversurfer]

On 2/26/2024 at 11:58 PM, Guithartic said:

I’m assuming you just pulled the white transducer cable out of the hole and let it sit in the body. When you do this, is there still another pickup that works, besides the UST?

Yes, you can do that to see if you like it before pulling the whole thing out.  You’ll just need a slightly taller saddle.  There are lots of non UST pickup options from K&K, Schatten, Dazo and now the LR Baggs HiFi.