Oh the Guitar-manity!! Or When Bad Things Happen to Innocent Instruments

[PrairieDog]

We were goofing off yesterday afternoon and headed into town to ride a couple Mule resonators.

One was at a GC that we don’t normally shop at.  It was one of the “big” stores. Besides the main acoustic room, where about 200 off shore models were displayed, the upper end models were housed in separate room, the size of the whole acoustic showroom at our little GC.  The ‘elite’ room had gigantic ceilings with guitars hung up the wall 3 ranks.  the guy needed a 12 foot ladder to retrieve the Mule from the top, and he still had to reach.  

Checking out the offerings,  a nice new J45 vintage burst caught my eye from the light shining through a split right down the center from the sound hole to the bottom of the bout.  I sighed, bummer, that’s rough.  Then moving on, I spied another guitar higher up with the same issue…

Then like a victim in a horror movie, I slowly started scanning around looking at the walls, and found each wall had several more with the same gaping bout crack. It was carnage every where I looked.  Gibson’s, Taylors, Martins… Pointing it out to another shopper, he started to find even more.  Some were too high, but looked mighty suspicious.  I’d say 20 percent of the guitars were split.  

Pondering it, we realized there was no humidity in the room. During the heating season.  Sure, there was a large living room size humidifier humming in the corner, but you’d probably have to fill it every hour to keep up with that cavern.  

Anyway, I tried to commiserate with the sales guy helping us that something  very bad must have happened with their humidity to cause so much damage, and he just kinda shrugged and said “yeah, we keep calling, but they keep saying it’s fine.”

Didn’t even want to acknowledge the $30-50,000 worth of damaged instruments hanging on the wall, all still tagged full price.  At least take them down and re-glue them,  or label them Scratch and Dents and offer a free mend… I feel for anyone who orders one shipped from there.  

Edited February 24 by PrairieDog

[62burst]

And it is a huge manatee. Happens at other places, as well. PEETA should be called.                         People for the Ethical Treatment of Acoustics.

But it is no joke-  letting damage from dry conditions happen is bad, and disrespectful of the work put in to make these guitars. 

[Murph]

7 hours ago, 62burst said:

 PEETA should be called.                         People for the Ethical Treatment of Acoustics.

Gawd, I hope they don't take their clothes off and protest again...

 

[Larsongs]

I have a 20 year old Gibson J-160E & a 50 year old Martin D-35 in my Home Studio. I do have a humidifier and keep my Studio between 40-55% at all times. The J-160E developed a Split recently. No problems with my D-35 though..

Is splitting more common with Mahogany than Rosewood which is a much harder Wood? 

Edited February 25 by Larsongs

[PrairieDog]

2 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

I have a 20 year old Gibson J-160E & a 50 year old Martin D-35 in my Home Studio. I do have a humidifier and keep my Studio between 40-55% at all times. The J-160E developed a Split recently. No problems with my D-35 though..

Is splitting more common with Mahogany than Rosewood which is a much harder Wood? 

I don’t know if that would be a factor here. these were all top splits, It looked like most were some kind of spruce, although there maybe were some exotic tops, koa and or cedar?  I’m already blocking the horror out of my brain, but one of the Martins may have been hog.  

[kidblast]

That's really a shame.

How many people will purchase one of these, and not even realize it till much later. 

Every time I go to a GC these days, I'm reminded why I will never buy another guitar from them.

Last time was well over 20 years ago, when you still had half a chance.

 

 

Edited February 25 by kidblast

[zombywoof]

Havin spent decades dealing with historic preservation, you quickly learn the most important requirement is simply to keep the air moving.  So, I would suspect that is the culprit behind GC's woes.

I have not been guitar window shopping in years.  But are you talking about a crack which goes all the way through the top meaning you checked under the hood or something like the finish having seeped into the gap.  The first instance while not a deal killer brings on a bout of some serious haggling.  Not much going to come into play when it is the second.

[PrairieDog]

1 minute ago, zombywoof said:

Havin spent decades dealing with historic preservation, you quickly learn the most important requirement is simply to keep the air moving.  So, I would suspect that is the culprit behind GC's woes.

I have not been guitar window shopping in years.  But are you talking about a crack which goes all the way through the top meaning you checked under the hood or something like the finish having seeped into the gap.  The first instance while not a deal killer brings on a bout of some serious haggling.  Not much going to come into play when it is the second.

yeah, this definitely wasn’t just a finish issue, unless they are making a new feature equivalent of glass bottom boats: a thin plexi panel that lets see into the guitar 😆 

[62burst]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

I don’t know if that would be a factor here. these were all top splits. . . 

Pics would've helped on this. Were they the classic center seam separation cracks? Those are one of the first types of cracks to appear with dried out guitars, and quite often, one of the more repairable (esp. on newer guitars), which usually involves a couple of days in the guitar sauna where the humidity is kept in the low 60's r.h. 

[62burst]

52 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

Havin spent decades dealing with historic preservation, you quickly learn the most important requirement is simply to keep the air moving.  So, I would suspect that is the culprit behind GC's woes.

But wouldn't the movement of heated dry air increase desiccation ?

[PrairieDog]

32 minutes ago, 62burst said:

Pics would've helped on this. Were they the classic center seam separation cracks? Those are one of the first types of cracks to appear with dried out guitars, and quite often, one of the more repairable (esp. on newer guitars), which usually involves a couple of days in the guitar sauna where the humidity is kept in the low 60's r.h. 

Don’t think they were really necessary?  I figured just describing “split down the center” was visual enough for folks to understand what kind of cracks they were.  You would have to scroll through pages of images to gather how many had suffered.  I thought I made clear I knew they had all dried out.  I was really commenting on how many in the one room had been damaged, and that they didn’t even seem concerned enough to try to rehydrate/reglue them, and that they were still selling them for full price! I mean, I’d be kinda po’d if I paid over $6,000 for a new Martin and it arrived with 1/8-1/4 inch separation on the face.  I mean, you could see the cracks from 10-12 feet away. Yes, I know they can be fixed, that’s not the point. It’s that in the face of the damage, this GC isn’t even making a token effort, and still selling them as “first quality”.  I don’t know, I guess I don’t think the first thing you should need to do with a new guitar is have it glued back together 🙄 

Edited February 25 by PrairieDog

[PrairieDog]

34 minutes ago, 62burst said:

But wouldn't the movement of heated dry air increase desiccation ?

That’s how my air fryer works 😄

[Larsongs]

They need to be in Temps of 70-80 degree’s approximately. And Humidity 40-50%..

I quit buying from GC several years ago.. When I did, I bought new Guitars in the wrapper. No Floor models…

 

[BluesKing777]

A real shame - someone has ruined all that work for the sitka tops...from the forest to the factory to the shop, let down by a.....

Tracing the guitar to the tree book I read says there is NOT that much guitar quality sitka left....Vancouver Island.

 

BluesKing777.

 

[zombywoof]

6 hours ago, 62burst said:

But wouldn't the movement of heated dry air increase desiccation ?

Think of it in terms of the reason old homes in the warmer climes before the advent of HVACs were built with high ceilings, transoms and ceiling/attic fans.  Not saying air movement is the final word but it is part of the equation.

Edited February 25 by zombywoof

[62burst]

1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

 

+1.

[fortyearspickn]

Wonder how many purchasers of those brand new Gibson acoustics will come here to complain about Gibson’s  Quality, QC and prices?

[PrairieDog]

12 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

Wonder how many purchasers of those brand new Gibson acoustics will come here to complain about Gibson’s  Quality, QC and prices?

I’ve been wondering about the indifference to the damage, and I think you are on to something… rather than paying their own luthiers to fix them, I wonder if they are relying on the buyers shipping them back to Gibson under the warranty as QC issues.  However, I would think 20 guitars all needing the same repair from the same vendor location might raise the antenna at the mothership.

  

[BluesKing777]

4 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

Wonder how many purchasers of those brand new Gibson acoustics will come here to complain about Gibson’s  Quality, QC and prices?

Probably about 2,500......😏

BluesKing777.

 

 

[Dave F]

7 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

I’ve been wondering about the indifference to the damage, and I think you are on to something… rather than paying their own luthiers to fix them, I wonder if they are relying on the buyers shipping them back to Gibson under the warranty as QC issues.  However, I would think 20 guitars all needing the same repair from the same vendor location might raise the antenna at the mothership.

  

Don't know about this GC, but I have a friend that works at the one close to me. They're told to not worry about the guitars. Let the kids bang on them. As an employee, you would have to get numb about them. I doubt if any of them are qualified to repair cracks. Any repairs would need  submitted to Gibson for approval. Also, they usually have one in the back untouched in a box or can get you one within a few days

[PrairieDog]

59 minutes ago, Dave F said:

Don't know about this GC, but I have a friend that works at the one close to me. They're told to not worry about the guitars. Let the kids bang on them. As an employee, you would have to get numb about them. I doubt if any of them are qualified to repair cracks. Any repairs would need  submitted to Gibson for approval. Also, they usually have one in the back untouched in a box or can get you one within a few days

Nod, it’s just the “one you can get in a few days” can end up coming from another GC, i.e., this one.  And then there were the poor used ones who just ended up in a very bad place.  I doubt they have a stack of opened Martins to pop out of the back.  

I get there is “demo” damage (I don’t mind a nice discount for a small “ding”) but then there is just willful, wasteful, neglect.  Buy another three or four 100.00 humidifiers and keep ‘em filled until you can get a qualified HVAC guy there to fix it.   “Oh, we call, but they say it is fine” is not an answer when it obviously is not “fine.”  

If nothing else, it is hitting their bottom line.  It looked so schlocky it made every instrument there suspect, even a steel resonator. They partly lost the $4,000 dollar sale because looking around at all the damaged goods, we couldn’t trust there wasn’t going to be something wrong with the Mule.  And the other guy, who was shopping, everything he tried sounded like crap because they were all so stiff and dry.  So right there, in 15 minutes, two good potential sales walked out.  It was like trying to shop in a guitar graveyard.  Just sad.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

9 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

Wonder how many purchasers of those brand new Gibson acoustics will come here to complain about Gibson’s  Quality, QC and prices?

I personally like the high prices, as it keeps me from buying them. I doubt I will ever get another new or used guitar ever again. I'm giving my son my 12 string as I don't touch it. 

Edited February 26 by Sgt. Pepper

[Murph]

On 2/24/2024 at 1:47 PM, PrairieDog said:

We were goofing off yesterday afternoon and headed into town to ride a couple Mule resonators.

I'd love a Mule, but they're pricey for a "part time" reso player.

I bought this Recording King used and love it. The tuners are cheap, but they work. 

[Murph]

It sounds great for the price. Like I said, I don't play it much. Or very well....

 

[PrairieDog]

36 minutes ago, Murph said:

It sounds great for the price. Like I said, I don't play it much. Or very well....

That was great! Always  enjoy hearing you play, and that is a great song.  Better half is the reso player but only has square-necks and wants a round neck now.  We really like the sound of a tricone and there happens to be two Mules in town right now. What are the chances?  So we got to actually compare for once. The one at Willies ran circles around the one at the GC, and was cheaper.   Still, the thing about the Mule is they use a standard sized, round plate, which means good parts of the three cones are trapped under the body and muted. The triangle plate design makes much more sense with tricones.  It does give Mule that kinda a chunky suppressed sound that some folks like.  We decided we are more into the warmer/open side.    

So, for about the about the same money, I think we will keep looking for a deal on a wood body National M1.  Since we are nothing but part-time players no matter what we pick up it’s all about just having fun with sounds for right now.  And, after collecting stuff to hang on the walls for so many years, it’s much more rewarding to have art we can play with 😄

Oops, just got an update that the GC Mule has left the building… glad it found a home. 

Edited February 26 by PrairieDog