KSdaddy, does ANYONE at Gibson actually read these posts about quality control?

[onewilyfool]

OK, as a proud owner of two Gibsons, I am extrememly happy about my guitars.......that being said, there are currently 3 posts on page one about quality control at Gibson. Every time I go to our local store, and there are new Gibbys on the wall, of course I play them. Often there are problems with fit and finish.....but ohhhh, the sound....lol....I went to Guitar Showcase in San Jose, and played about 4 of thier guitars (which were more or less perfect in fit and finish) but all were just OK sounding. Yes, there is a lot of Gibson bashing at other forum sites, but there is usually a grain of truth to some of the comments. If I could boil it down to a single metaphor, you have to date a lot of Frogs, before you find your prince. If you want a large company produced guitar that has high fit and finish, go get a Martin, but be happy with that Martin sound, which I could call "vanilla" sometimes (and I have two Martins, so not bashing Martins) If you want a pretty much guarenteed fit and finish and sound, maybe move up to a Collings, which makes both Martin and Gibson clones. But once in a while you will find your Gibson, and you will love it, and the little fit and finish minutia will dissappear. I bought my Gibsons used, so even though there were some fit and finish problems, they were 'worn in' by the previous players, with little dings and scratches, and actually you then had to look for the blemishes from the factory. All this being said, I really feel that Gibson needs to hire away a Martin or Collings quality control person, and really up their game. Some of the flaws I've seen in new Gibsons are glaring, and would be hard to miss even by a novice, let alone several line production inspections by pros in the Gibson construction process. Hopefully some of this feedback filters up to higher ears........

[ksdaddy]

I can't answer for Gibson but I know they do read the posts, or at least a smattering of them. One time someone was having grief with their dealer, something about a warranty issue, and one of the Gibson guys contacted me to pass along contact info so it would be resolved directly by Bozeman. I'm sure that's not unprecedented. I do know Gibson folks aren't supposed to participate in the forum, the exception being some customer service reps that have been posting lately.

 

I refrain from making any statements about Gibson's QC simply because we all have our own standards as to what should and shouldn't be an issue. To put it as bluntly as possible, if a guitar speaks to me, I don't care about the file mark or dimple in the finish or if an inlay is off a little. To me it's like finding a woman who LOVES you and rejecting her because she has a pimple on the side of her nose.

 

As I said, we all have our standards and I'm not imposing mine on anyone else, but sometimes people are soo blessed hung up over some little thing, some little flaw, that they just come unglued. I pity them if and when they find the flawless guitar they seek, because someday a crack will appear or a scratch will happen or they'll pick up the guitar having forgotten they sprayed themselves with DEET a couple hours earlier and the finish will take Hell. I pity them on that day, I really do.

 

I can't compare Gibson to the 'others', but I've been to Bozeman (once) and can attest to the number of human hands touching each and every piece of wood that turns into a guitar. Human, American, pony-tail hippie, redneck, goofball Montana hands. I'm okay if they have a flaw.

[drathbun]

That's an excellent reply ksdaddy. Everyone's opinion on this issue has to be entirely subjective. I play a lot of guitars that come through the local guitar shop including Gibsons, Martins, Larrivee, Taylor, Guild. Only a handful of high end (read over $1500) guitars have spoken to me. Of those guitars, the only ones that have had fit and finish issues have been Gibsons. My prize possession has some noticeable finish issues but I chose to overlook that because of the sound of this guitar. None of my Rickenbackers, Fenders, Taylors, Gretsches or Epiphones have fit 'n finish issues. What that tells me is that Gibson makes guitars a little differently from everyone else. The other thing to notice, for me specifically, is that the Gibsons are the only ones using nitro finishes. Also, out of all of the Gibsons I've played, only this one Songwriter has actually spoken to me. Of course, to be fair, only ONE Martin has ever had an affect on me... a 1972 D18 I failed to pull the trigger on about five years ago.

[Eddie Rondack]

Can't say that I've noticed many "fit and finish" issues that couldn't be attributed to the guitar hanging on the wall/being abused at Guitar Center (only Gibson dealer around here anymore...).

 

Sometimes I wonder if other guitar makers pay folks to plant the "fit and finish" seed about Gibson on these forums... could be a smart strategy...

 

By the way, Martin uses nitro, and so does Guild.

 

I would tend to disagree on one point about Collings... they look great but the sound leaves me cold... same with Taylor... but that's just me.

 

Bottom line for me is "Only A Gibson (well, maybe sometimes Martin) Is Good Enough"

[tvguit]

Great posts. I always considered myself to be a pretty objective guy. When I was reading all those posts discrediting the brand I swore by I was a little put off. I always considered the Gibson inconsistency speech to be a myth that may have been true at one point in time (cough the seventies cough). What I was forgetting is that they are entitled to their own opinion that comes from their own experiences.

 

I think that forums such as this one and AGF could be a HUGE advantage to the marketing department of any guitar company. I hope and assume that Gibson is doing just that.

 

By the way Eddie Rondack (beautiful Western Classic btw) how is it back in Alabama?? I have been studying in Malta for 5 months now and I can't wait to get back home (Birmingham) in 2 weeks!

[Eddie Rondack]

Great posts. I always considered myself to be a pretty objective guy. When I was reading all those posts discrediting the brand I swore by I was a little put off. I always considered the Gibson inconsistency speech to be a myth that may have been true at one point in time (cough the seventies cough). What I was forgetting is that they are entitled to their own opinion that comes from their own experiences.

 

I think that forums such as this one and AGF could be a HUGE advantage to the marketing department of any guitar company. I hope and assume that Gibson is doing just that.

 

By the way Eddie Rondack (beautiful Western Classic btw) how is it back in Alabama?? I have been studying in Malta for 5 months now and I can't wait to get back home (Birmingham) in 2 weeks!

 

Hey over there! It's hot already here by the bay... no oil on the beach yet, but it seems like it's only a matter of time.

 

I guess it would be pretty warm in Malta, too. I'm headed in your general direction (Ireland) in a month or so... hope the volcano doesn't get in the way of our plans...

 

Cheers!

[Paul E]

Great answer ksdaddy ! I read alot of guitar forums and the subject of Gibson's quality control is ussually brought up by a person who doesn't own or even tried a Gibson guitar before and answered by someone who has heard horror stories and has no personel experience. Mostly hearsay. I have had quite a few Gibsons and a few other brand of guitars in my life time so far. I have never experienced any problem with any of my Gibson guitars, and bought all my Gibson's without playing first ( no dealers in my area). Other major brand guitars I've owned I had problems with and thats why all my 6 strings are Gibson's.

[Murph]

I like mine.

 

There does seem to be a lot more whiners lately.

[onewilyfool]

It makes me smile when the Gibson apologists come out of the word work.......and they miss the point entirely. There IS no conspiracy of people being paid by other companies to bad mouth Gibson (are you listening to yourself???) , bringing up quality control problems is not whining. But I'm open to the possibility that maybe we should just shrug and say, well that's just Gibson being Gibson. The point IS: Is Gibson getting this feedback and acting on it. The place I usually play my Gibsons is Gelb Music, in Redwood City. They usually have 10-20 Gibsons and a lot of Epi's. Right now they have several of the last of the Canadian made Gibsons. I'm not looking for a fight, this is just my opinion, the Canadian Gibsons have GREAT fit and finish and mediocre sound. I'd say their fit and finish is about the Martin standard. The Bozeman Gibson's have great sound, and several fit and finish problems, that are so obvious, that a child could have picked them up, let along an assembly line worker or quality control person. Still, I love the sound, and that is what usually draws me to the Gibsons. I prefer the Gibson sound to the Martin sound for example, but Martins still have a place in my heart. By apologizing for these faults, you don't make Gibson a better company. This post is not Gibson bashing, or Gibson whining, or anti-Gibson propaganda, I was just noticing that there were 3 posts concerning sound and fit and finish concerns, and I was wondering if Gibson was getting it? That is all......jeesh, such tender toes in this place......KSdaddy, thanks for your thoughtful response....

[AlanC]

I've got a couple of Martins, a Goodall and a couple of PRS semi hollow electrics. However I agree with the sentiments expressed above about Gibson. I have always loved Gibsons and by a considerable margin my favourite guitars remain Gibsons - archtops, electrics and acoustics. I don't really know why but its a combination of the sound and feel. I do accept that at times there maybe quality control issues but as Onewilyfool says hard to find a prince or maybe princess. However in my view there seem to be lots of great Gibsons around, not just one out of every ten guitars.

 

I bought a brand new ES165 Archtop and it had a lot of problems - broken tailpiece, volume pot not working, very dry fretboard, problem with the bridge. loose mounting of the pickup on the scratch plate, just to name a few. However I did buy the guitar fairly cheap but didn't appreciate the full extent of these problems when I bought it. All of these problems have now been fixed.

 

Clearly Gibson's quality control should have been better. However they sent me a new tailpiece in a reasonable time frame, I replaced the volume pot and bridge and had the pick up properly mounted. I now have a fabulous guitar that I'm really happy with. A really great Gibson. The process was frustrating but I'm now very happy!!!

 

Would I buy another Gibson - absolutely as soon as I have the money to do so!!!

[vourot]

I rescued my AJ from a GC in Renton Washington. I was all set to buy a D-28. But, having read about the AJ I resolved to try one out before I comitted to anything. I drove stateside and found it there. It was on sale too! It needed new strings but it still sounded great. I was sold after the first strum. I walked out with it after the GC guy finally figured out it was supposed to come with a case ( geez, its such a good price I'm not sure the case comes with it ) he really said that....sigh.

 

When I finally got around to a set up ( the action was a tad high ) I found out the neck was slightly out of true. Long story short I went back to the states for warranty work. After lots of consultation I had the bridge shaved ( gasp ). Sure , it was a bit of pain in the *** to go to another country to get it fixed. Sure, I was a little miffed that I bought a guitar that needed ( borderline ) a neck reset. The work was done, the " Guitar Doctor " did an excellent job and the guitar sounded just as good as ever. As a matter of fact it sounds much nicer now than it did when I bought it , and thats saying something.

 

It really blew the D-28 away. I would buy another Gibby with issues if it sounded like mine. Its all about the sound.

[Gibson101]

I like mine.

 

There does seem to be a lot more whiners lately.

 

Man pot calling kettle!! While I like you Murph and thanks to you I purchased my J-45 RW you sir have done your fair share of pissing and moaning over the years.

 

It makes me smile when the Gibson apologists come out of the word work.......and they miss the point entirely. There IS no conspiracy of people being paid by other companies to bad mouth Gibson (are you listening to yourself???) ' date=' bringing up quality control problems is not whining. But I'm open to the possibility that maybe we should just shrug and say' date=' well that's just Gibson being Gibson. The point IS: Is Gibson getting this feedback and acting on it. [b'']The place I usually play my Gibsons is Gelb Music, in Redwood City.[/b] They usually have 10-20 Gibsons and a lot of Epi's. Right now they have several of the last of the Canadian made Gibsons. I'm not looking for a fight, this is just my opinion, the Canadian Gibsons have GREAT fit and finish and mediocre sound. I'd say their fit and finish is about the Martin standard. The Bozeman Gibson's have great sound, and several fit and finish problems, that are so obvious, that a child could have picked them up, let along an assembly line worker or quality control person. Still, I love the sound, and that is what usually draws me to the Gibsons. I prefer the Gibson sound to the Martin sound for example, but Martins still have a place in my heart. By apologizing for these faults, you don't make Gibson a better company. This post is not Gibson bashing, or Gibson whining, or anti-Gibson propaganda, I was just noticing that there were 3 posts concerning sound and fit and finish concerns, and I was wondering if Gibson was getting it? That is all......jeesh, such tender toes in this place......KSdaddy, thanks for your thoughtful response....

 

OWF I have purchased from Gelb and swing by there to see what's new, that place should be shut down, I am constantly baffled by the poor quality Gibson's they have on hand. I was so frustrated with them that I ended up ordering from Music Villa (supposedly a shop in Bozeman with strong ties to the factory) and they sent me a few doozies as well. On the third I was finally wise enough to send it back and stop doing business with them. I love my Gibson's and my SJ-300 is my favorite guitar however I do think it would be SO simple to do a better job on QC. I have been flamed in the past for bringing these issues up and frankly I may have to sell one of my Gibson's some day so I am reluctant to bash them anymore.

[BigKahune]

I think these posts are noticed by someone at Gibson. But, Gibson is a large corporation and I'm not sure that someone at Gibson seeing these posts would actually lead to any real corporate concern or action on Q/C.

 

 

 

 

(I'm not employed by Gibson, Martin, Taylor, Collings, etc. I've owned several Gibby's over the years, including some new ones. In my own experiences with Gibson, which started in the 60s, I have not been disappointed with their products or their customer service.)

[albertjohn]

I like mine.

 

There does seem to be a lot more whiners lately.

 

 

Me too!

 

I blame it on climate change.

[Murph]

Man pot calling kettle!! While I like you Murph and thanks to you I purchased my J-45 RW you sir have done your fair share of pissing and moaning over the years.

 

About Gibson guitars? Are you nuts?

 

I've only seen one bad one in my life, my daughters '09 Fireburst Studio had a splinter in the rosewood fretboard, and I sent it back and got it replaced in a few days.

 

I've pissed and moaned about sigs named after morons that can't play guitar and have garbage mouth, treehuggers, naked PETA members, seatbelt laws, anti smoking in bar laws (even though I quit smoking), the national debt and a multitude of other things but I never recall complaining about Gibson.

 

I used to drink a little, though........

 

;)

[Cecil]

Hey guys,

Yes, people at Gibson do indeed read these posts. Definitely. Typically, when someone has a specific issue with a specific guitar (which they own) that needs to be addressed, we even respond in some form. ;)

[drathbun]

It makes me smile when the Gibson apologists come out of the word work.......and they miss the point entirely. There IS no conspiracy of people being paid by other companies to bad mouth Gibson (are you listening to yourself???) ' date=' bringing up quality control problems is not whining. But I'm open to the possibility that maybe we should just shrug and say, well that's just Gibson being Gibson. The point IS: Is Gibson getting this feedback and acting on it. The place I usually play my Gibsons is Gelb Music, in Redwood City. They usually have 10-20 Gibsons and a lot of Epi's. Right now they have several of the last of the Canadian made Gibsons. I'm not looking for a fight, this is just my opinion, the Canadian Gibsons have GREAT fit and finish and mediocre sound. I'd say their fit and finish is about the Martin standard. The Bozeman Gibson's have great sound, and several fit and finish problems, that are so obvious, that a child could have picked them up, let along an assembly line worker or quality control person. Still, I love the sound, and that is what usually draws me to the Gibsons. I prefer the Gibson sound to the Martin sound for example, but Martins still have a place in my heart. By apologizing for these faults, you don't make Gibson a better company. This post is not Gibson bashing, or Gibson whining, or anti-Gibson propaganda, I was just noticing that there were 3 posts concerning sound and fit and finish concerns, and I was wondering if Gibson was getting it? That is all......jeesh, such tender toes in this place......KSdaddy, thanks for your thoughtful response....[/quote']

 

+1

[onewilyfool]

You know, after being on this forum for a LOOOONG time, I've noticed:

 

When we are talking about guitars, there always seems to be some argument.....but when we are talking about music, everything seems to be fine........just a thought

[suburude63]

It makes me smile when the Gibson apologists come out of the word work.......and they miss the point entirely. There IS no conspiracy of people being paid by other companies to bad mouth Gibson (are you listening to yourself???) ' date=' bringing up quality control problems is not whining. But I'm open to the possibility that maybe we should just shrug and say, well that's just Gibson being Gibson. The point IS: Is Gibson getting this feedback and acting on it. The place I usually play my Gibsons is Gelb Music, in Redwood City. They usually have 10-20 Gibsons and a lot of Epi's. Right now they have several of the last of the Canadian made Gibsons. I'm not looking for a fight, this is just my opinion, the Canadian Gibsons have GREAT fit and finish and mediocre sound. I'd say their fit and finish is about the Martin standard. The Bozeman Gibson's have great sound, and several fit and finish problems, that are so obvious, that a child could have picked them up, let along an assembly line worker or quality control person. Still, I love the sound, and that is what usually draws me to the Gibsons. I prefer the Gibson sound to the Martin sound for example, but Martins still have a place in my heart. By apologizing for these faults, you don't make Gibson a better company. This post is not Gibson bashing, or Gibson whining, or anti-Gibson propaganda, I was just noticing that there were 3 posts concerning sound and fit and finish concerns, and I was wondering if Gibson was getting it? That is all......jeesh, such tender toes in this place......KSdaddy, thanks for your thoughtful response....[/quote']

 

Here Here Wiley man ! I agree whole heartedly !