Support your local guitar store

[Lord Summerisle]

Last Friday I did something which I hadn't done for a few years. As I had the day off work, I went shopping for a guitar. By "shopping for a guitar" I don't mean browsing the websites of the big on-line dealers; instead I actually got in my car and drove to some musical instrument stores, in the hope of buying something along the lines of an ES-335 copy.

 

First stop was Guitar Center. A smallish selection of Epiphone Dots, one Casino, one Korean Sheraton (marked down to $599 on account of a fair few dings), and one Chinese Sheraton (black) at $699. Also some Ibanez Artcores and some of the new Gretches. To be fair, the sales people in GC were polite and helpful, and left me alone to browse the selection. I had a look at some of the cheaper Ibanez Artcores. Boy, those things do seem cheaply made. They almost look like balsa-wood. The Korean Sheraton was probably the best value, but I'm a bit fussy and some of the dings were quite obvious.

 

In the end, I tried the Casino. Nice guitar. It was a natural finish and was surprising in some ways. It had an EE07 serial number and some "Epiphone custom shop" logos on the back of the headstock. Odd feeling neck, quite chubby - like a round U shape, with a narrow fretboard. Someone had given the bridge tone control a beating, although the salesman agreed to fix that, no problem.

 

But they couldn't do me a great deal on the price. Basically, it worked out at $699 for the Casino + $89 for the case + sales tax. Nothing special about that. You can buy a Casino and case direct from American Musical Supply for $759, tax-free and delivered free to your door.

 

So I moved on. Next up was a local store. Some Epis and other brands, but ultimately I fell in love...with a new Hagstrom Viking. As this is an Epiphone forum I won't start singing the praises of Hagstrom here, but it is a wonderful guitar.

 

Point is - I walked out of the door with a guitar + the accompanying hard shell case + sales tax for roughly the same price as the guitar + case would have cost from an online dealer. That's pretty good.

 

But what was remarkable was the 45 minute set-up that came with the guitar, at no extra cost to me. The store owner is clearly a very skilled luthier, and ensured that the guitar was perfectly set-up for my needs before I left with the guitar. The guys at Guitar Center and similar stores do their best, but I don't think they offer that kind of service. And If they do, I bet it ain't included in the purchase price of your guitar.

[Notes_Norton]

I've tried out the Viking, it's a nice guitar.

 

I have had some great experiences by being a regular customer at local guitar stores rather than the big-box shops.

 

True, the price is a bit higher (but really not that much) and the service you get is well worth the price.

 

Here are a couple of stores:

 

Many years ago, I was looking for something to make my PA sound better and the salesman in a local store demonstrated a BBE "Sonic Maximizer". I asked if I could try it on my PA set to see if it made as much difference on my rig as it did in the store. He told me to take it home, try it out on your gigs this weekend and come in Monday with either the money or the unit. If you bring back the maximizer, just make sure it is not scratched and like new. He never even asked for a deposit. I went back Monday with my credit card because it made a nice difference in my PA set.

 

Another time I was looking for a new microphone for my sax. After asking me what I wanted out of the mic, the owner went into the back where he had a recording studio, and came back with a Sennheiser 421 and told me to try it out over the weekend. Again no deposit, again it made a remarkable difference. I came back Monday with the mic and he immediately ordered a new one and gave me a great price on it AND told me to keep the studio's mic until the new one came in (he had a couple of them in the studio).

 

Every few years saxophones need servicing -- pads, springs, cork, etc. need to be replaced. It takes a couple of weeks to complete the job. Until the owner died, I got my saxes done at one music store. She always gave me a "loaner" to play while mine was in the shop. Usually a student/intermediate instrument that she had in her "rental fleet". No charge for the loaner.

 

Try getting service like that on a big-box or Internet store. It just doesn't happen.

 

So whenever I can, I purchase things directly from the mom-and-pop store where I get to know the owners. More often than not the prices are competitive, only a bit more than the Internet (they check the competition but cannot buy in bulk) and the service I get more that makes up the difference.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Emetry]

I'm with you!

The WORST place to buy/sell instruments is the world's largest instrument retailer. I really have issues with Guitar Center. That said, I HAVE purchased things there, but i NEVER...EVER...pay sticker, and I always get them to eat the tax on what I buy.

For guitars, I use a smaller shop here in Kalamazoo with some badass selection. The gentleman who runs it is an amazing guy. Really experienced and a nice guy. Only problem I have with smaller shops is that the first few times you walk in, there's a lot of weirdness. But they're better at cutting deals and certainly provide better service.

[TWANG]

The Guitar Center in Sioux Falls So. Dak. has a luthier onsite now and then.

His bench and tools are set up right in the store.

I've walked in and seen him doing fret crowning on acoustics.

 

That being said, I still wonder why anyone puts a guitar on the shelf without adjusting it correctly.

Nor do I understand why anyone feels they should be able to charge you for a set up after you agree to buy the guitar new.

 

Nothing I sell leaves me not set up.

I even pulled my cheapo sagas out of the box, put on the bridge tuner neck and strings then check the fretwork and set them up so the

guy buying the kit just has to assemble it to have it come out right.

I'd love to see my go out of business.. the way that will happen is if the big stores and local stores get more competitive about

service.

 

Get rid of the guys who look cool, have friends in management, are just local players and no more.. and find people who know what

they are doing and know about guitars.

But look.. most guys who get into repair do it because they want to make money.

and the money you make at a store like GC or any chain is going to be very little, only supplemental, compared to a well run

luthiers shop.

 

the GC I mentioned has reached a nice compromise. He's not there all the time, but he's available.

the problem is, they have such stiff competition they can't really afford to pay him what he wants to set up every guitar.

 

So there's the rub. Finding a store with a good stock, competitively priced, who has someone who is knowlegeable above and beyond

knowing the names of products, or stocking the shelves that will then do what we all feel should be included in the price of the

new or used guitar.

Set it up right.

 

TWANG

[generation zero]

The repair guy at the Virginia Beach guitar center is great, and competitively priced too. His name is Ron... He did a new nut and a full setup including fret leveling and dressing on my fake gibby for 60 bucks, when the next best price I was offered by the local "big" music store was about 130 for the same work. He also had it done in less than 24 hours, when the other place said it would be at least 4 days, probably a week or more. If I needed SERIOUS work done, like a refret or having the neck replaced on a set neck guitar, I might go with the other place, because they do have a bit nicer shop to work in, but for all general repair work, I go to Ron at GC. He's never done me wrong. GC is also usually really good about getting me the best deal, although Alpha Music (the local store) does tend to get in nicer guitars from Gibson, Epiphone, Fender, and PRS. Alpha has been in business for over 25 years though, while GC is at maybe 7, at least that location. Gibson wouldn't let GC sell Gibson stuff for a long time, because Alpha is less than 5 miles away, and Gibson likes to keep a certain distance between dealers to avoid price wars... It took them almost a year to even get authorization from Gibson because Alpha was and still is one of their top dealers in Virginia.

 

Lucky for me, I know everybody in both stores, so it usually just depends on which one actually has what I want in stock. I can usually play one against the other too, as neither one wants me to take my business "down the street to those bozos", LOL!

[TWANG]

That's a pretty good price, really.

Even though the fretwork was probably not serious, and most of the set up is likewise just knowing what you're doing.

It takes time to learn and time to practice getting it right, and it's not quick and easy at all. Just not brain surgery.

I think it was money well spent, and I think you do, too.

 

The main reason I got into fretwork was because I sent my Taylor off to an authorized taylor repairman and he took off a LOT more than he needed to, and didn't crown worth a darn.

So I got a beater and tools and taught myself and have been doing it ever since.

 

Guys in stores should know more than they do, quite often. And be less money minded as well. I think they'd do much better business in the long run.

 

Be glad you have good options locally.

And search around, you might be surprised, some of you, to find out who's out there.

TWANG

[Svet]

Hi guys, I read these forums and I see that there are many unfortunate individuals out there. People whose only options for musical supplies are in the hands of the big vendors. We know who they are and their prices and service are sickening to me. Most of my guitars were purchased through a small business called Alto music. They have four locations in the Southern Part of NY. The collections they stock put Guitar Center and Sam Ash to shame. Not only is the inventory far better but their sales staff is way more knowledgeable than the pimply faced wannabe punks that staff the aforementioned other places. If you don't like the condition of a floor model chances are they have unopened boxes in the back; And this is for big ticket items like Custom Shop Gibson’s, Fenders and PRS. The best part is the pricing! When I see what GC or Musicians Friend charges for "sale" items I almost laugh my butt off! Most of the gear at Alto is 15-20 percent less than it's "competitors" charge. Case in point, my brand new Epiphone Elitist Broadway was 1500 while MF sold them for 2k. Need more proof? My brand new Elitist Sheraton, well 1199 at Alto, 1600 at MF. You don't even want to know my Gibson Custom Shop differences. Talking over 1k here.

Svet

[ssgfowler]

You would think in middle Tennessee (ie., Nashville) you could find a Gibson dealer on every corner, but, no!!! G/C has that covered here. I bought the Gibson guitars I own at G/C, but anything else, I go to the local store.

I get a better deal there 'cause I've repaired a few amps and built a few Mexi Strats they liked.

I found a guy nearby who retired from the Gibson factory after 25 years on the final assembly point that I go to when I need some work done that I can't do myself. His price can't be beat, and his work is top notch.

[Nic]

There is a great independent guitar store in the Detroit area that is one of the few non GC Gibson dealers. I have been feeling guilty for going there to try out guitars and then buy them on e-bay for less. I promise, the next guitar purchase will be made at that store. Hopefully it will be the Tele thinline I have my eye on.

[Notes_Norton]

In addition to purchasing your guitar at your local mom and pop shop, it is a good idea to get your strings, picks, music, reeds and other accessories there as well. The little nickel-and-dime profits they make on those items helps to pay the rent so that they will be there the next time you need to buy something big or need any of their extra services.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[lpdeluxe]

I'm not within 100+ miles of a GC, which is a good thing. I deal with my local music store owner, and his manager, and we keep each other happy. He's happy because he has a regular, repeat customer, and I'm happy because he'll help me find what I'm looking for and takes trades of my old stuff for the new stuff. If his store were suddenly replaced by GC, I'd be very unhappy.

 

There are drawbacks: he no longer handles Gibson or Epiphone; but he located a blond Sheraton II for me and it ended up costing me $200 + some trade-in. I also bought a new Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight guitar amp from him for a total cash outlay of $250 -- for an amp that goes for $1170!

 

For some specialized computer recording gear (a sound card that handles lightpipe, for example) I have to go online (you can tell how long it's been since I bought one) but I've gotten several studio mics from him for a friendly price (beyerdynamic ribbon, most recently). This is a small town, so a lot of times he has to order something for me, but I'm not an instant-gratification type, so it works out.

 

I was just reading about the Berkshires in Massachusetts, where local merchants have come up with "BerkShares" which is a local currency good only in locally owned stores (the chains won't have anything to do with it) to encourage local shopping. I could get pretty much anything I wanted -- the occasional craigslist goody aside -- with such a local currency, if we had it here.

 

Back to the local music store: the owner has a knack for attracting techs (the amp guy is a retired Navy electronics specialist who can repair tube amps with his eyes closed, almost) and as long as he's there I'll be buying from him.

 

Support your local music store: unless you think McDonald's menu is superior to the local cuisine, you'll miss it when it's gone.

[stan 58]

God bless the big box stores!!!!!! The only Ma & pa stores in my neck of the woods are a joke. Sure if i lived in the big city i'd have choices but i and many many people don't. M&Ps don't have a good inventory, don't have good return policys and don't have good pricing. The only reason your getting these good deals from your local M&Ps is due to price presure from the hated big boxs. Other wise they would be chargeing you guys blind. I know it's PC to bad mouth any thing big, but i for one would be screwed with out them. Stan. P.S. I love Mickey Ds.

[brad1]

I agree with everything you wrote.

[lpdeluxe]

God bless the big box stores!!!!!! The only Ma & pa stores in my neck of the woods are a joke. Sure if i lived in the big city i'd have choices but i and many many people don't. M&Ps don't have a good inventory' date=' don't have good return policys and don't have good pricing. The only reason your getting these good deals from your local M&Ps is due to price presure from the hated big boxs. Other wise they would be chargeing you guys blind. I know it's PC to bad mouth any thing big, but i for one would be screwed with out them. Stan. P.S. I love Mickey Ds.[/quote']

 

Hmmm...my local store owner has been in business here since the '70s, long before big box stores existed -- which, in any case (excluding Wal-Mart) still haven't moved to this area. He's always been a good person to deal with -- he sold my LP to the guy I bought it from, in 1984, and still remembers him, although the guy hasn't lived here for 20 years. Fortunately he's younger than I am, so hopefully he'll be here for the rest of my life.

 

I'm sorry you can't experience what I have. Maybe I've got it even better than I thought -- but this is an otherwise nondescript town, so who knows?

 

The few times I have dealt with GCs or others in the past when visiting big cities have not been memorable. Hanging out in one is about as cool as hanging out in the ladies' lingerie department in Wal-Mart. I go to the music store, get the latest from other musicians, get turned on to gigs (the guy who gives piano lessons there offered me the harmonica chair in the orchestra for a local state U production of Big River, which paid a few bills in November) and generally take part in the musical life of the area.

 

But maybe that's just me.

[zombywoof]

I have been playing some 50 years and have always frequented the local Mom and Pop music stores.

 

I now live within an hour of both a GC and an MF warehouse. Ain't ever walked in the doors of either.

 

But I do I love my local guy out here. Nah, he can't beat GC or MF on the price of a new Fender, PRS, Gibby or Epi - in fact, he can't afford the buy in and yearly commitment most big guitar companies require to become an authorized dealer.

 

But, if you are looking for a good used guitar - he does manage to find them (from the common to the Oh My Gawd variety), has any needed repairs taken care of, sets them up perfectly, gives you a good price, and then stands behind eveyrthing he sells. Since he knows me well, he has no problem in letting me take any used guitar home to give the tires a good kick. Heck, I can even get him to change my strings for me although he keeps threatening to start charging a "lazy tax."

 

And what may be the best part, you don't walk in on a Saturday morning and have to listen to the high school kids shredding.

[stan 58]

I like many others have been forced to do my own set ups, repairs and string changes. And it's been a great learning experance. I'd love to have a cool spot to hang out, but i think you'll find 90% of M&P stores are not quite that nice. You are lucky to have such a place. But you yourself said there are few brand name guitars so when you do need to buy something new you probably go where i do. Stan.

[TWANG]

God bless the big box stores!!!!!! The only Ma & pa stores in my neck of the woods are a joke. Sure if i lived in the big city i'd have choices but i and many many people don't. M&Ps don't have a good inventory' date=' don't have good return policys and don't have good pricing. The only reason your getting these good deals from your local M&Ps is due to price presure from the hated big boxs. Other wise they would be chargeing you guys blind. I know it's PC to bad mouth any thing big, but i for one would be screwed with out them. Stan. P.S. I love Mickey Ds.[/quote']

 

 

This is true in too many places.

And 'back in the day' it was especially true.

Even the bigger stores outside small towns really had everyone by the short hairs.

 

I could, since my dad was an engineer, hop on the train and go to omaha anytime, free..

(they actually had passenger services when I was a teen)

and the difference between the nearest music stores and the big city stores was insane.

 

You might get 25% off list.. but pay full price for anything besides a guitar.. and often amps were not discounted

more than some small amount far less than 24%.

 

The BS these guys put out was just incredible. They knew they had a guitar boom happening around them, and took every advantage of beginners, high school kids, etc.

 

you could sit in the store and listen as some farmer and his wife brought the kid in for a new guitar, and you knew they were gonna take a big hit on some piece of junk.

 

There were, however, and are, good small stores.

They have tough competition. and can't stock hugely. and don't get the shipping discount or the close out price.

And they don't move enough inventory and have to settle for struggle.

There's room for understanding here.. it depends so much on the area.

 

Every couple of years someone closes and someone opens a new store in the city nearest me.

It's tough.

Advertising isn't cheap. Keeping up with trends really counts.

And knowledgable service. sometimes just hard to find, as well as expensive.

TWANG

[lpdeluxe]

I remember the "good old days" when the guitar shops could charge the earth for any POS and get away with it.

 

And yet...

 

...with my local store I get reasonable trade-ins, good tech service on my tube amps (I too set up my own guitars -- every player should know how), and the greatest warranty in the world: "If you don't like it, bring it back and we'll do what it takes to make you happy."

 

The owner also took my '63 Country Gent to the Dallas Guitar Show a couple of years ago and got an insane price for it. I paid him a 20% commission, but in return I got a stack of bills ('way more than paid for my 335) and the knowledge that I'm helping him be around tomorrow.

[midiman56]

I grew up in Manhattan, and my "formative years" (the years I got really serious about playing guitar) were the mid-70's. During that time I purchased a couple of guitars at the original, pre-Sam Ash, Manny's Music on West 48th street.

 

Now, there have been books, articles and documentaries about this place as it was the "music store of the stars" and the crown jewel of the entire 48th street music scene. The autographed pictures on the walls would keep you busy for hours. Enter "Manny's Music on YouTube if you're not familiar with the place.

 

The customer service at this joint ran the entire gamut: from indifference to outright hostility! I'm serious, guys ... you had to count your money out on the counter brfore you could touch anything in that store. They were arrogant, rude and demeaning ... and yet everyone wanted to shop there ... it was, after all, Mannys!

 

So I guess I tend to look at GC from a different perspective. These days, all I want is good gear at a good price with a reasonable return policy if I end up not bonding with it after a week or two. I tend to do my own homework so I don't need a lot of expertise from the salesperson. There are a couple of guys at my local GC that know me by name and vice/versa. I can call them up and get them to order something for me "on the come" (I'll be in with the cash when it shows up)with no hassel at all. If I have some time to kill, I can go in there and fiddle around for a while and not feel pressured to walk out with something under my arm. I've spent about $4k there over the last couple of years so they know that if the spirit moves me, I'll buy something.

 

I'm sorry so many of you have had bad experiences at GC. Mine have been, for the most part, good to acceptable. The only problems I've ever had there were ones with corporate policy ... never with the staff. In my experience, music stores have always been a little laid back, service-wise. The people in there seem a bit impressed with themselves that they are working in the "music industry". Hey! Best Buy is test marketing in store "Music Stores" at several of their locations. Maybe things will get better!

 

Besides, here in Las Vegas, I can either deal with Guitar Center and Sam Ash ... or Ed Roman! What would you do?

 

MIDI

[Dave]

I've never had a mom and pop store turn me down when I pulled out the online store ad that I printed and asked about price match. I always try to buy from one of the stores that has the one I want hanging on the wall. They will even special order for the price match if they have to.

 

Most of these stores deal with a supplier who has a franchise with the manufacturer and buys the instruments in quantity. Some go together and buy in lots from the franchiser and split up the savings. It's pretty expensive to have a franchise for a mom and pop store. Somehow, they manage to stay in business. Most local stores will tell you that they make most of their money on school band intruments.

 

All my life, I've been able to buy 35% off retail, even before online competition. That was the band discount. We all were offered that deal because the store owner wanted us to come in and buy strings, accessories, and repairs.

[Lord Summerisle]

I didn't really mean for this thread to be a criticism of Guitar Center. In fact, as I mentioned, my search for a new guitar last week actually began at my neighborhood GC. I like big on-line dealers too - most of my gear comes from Sweetwater. I guess I got an attack of GAS and couldn't wait days for a guitar to be delivered - which is why I went shopping locally.

 

I hope there is room for both the big box stores and Mom & Pop music stores. Both offer different things, IMHO.

 

Guitar Center is to guitars as Starbucks is to coffee. Its a particular range and you can be fairly sure of what you are going to get, whichever branch you walk into. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just nice to have other options available too.

 

Also - in my experience, there is a huge range of stuff that GC sells online, but which it never allows into its stores. Case in point, my Hagstrom Viking. I have never seen one in a GC store, but it was hanging on the wall at the little independent dealer.

[pohatu771]

I'm lucky enough to have what may be the best locally-owned store just fifteen minutes from school, an hour from home. The local paper has written "If you've never heard of the House of Guitars, you're probably not a rock star."

 

I support them, and they return the favour. I could call Bruce or Armand, and they'd let me play on their stage - a stage that Zakk Wylde has played on. People complain about their prices, because they try to sell for list - it's a store for musicians, not for first-timers. I bought my Martin there in September, and list price on the guitar and case would come to $1250. Retail would come to $850.

 

I walked out with $600 plus tax.

 

They also have things they've forgotten about - I discovered a half-dozen Fender Toronados (discontinued in 2003) that had never been touched.

 

I've said it before, if you're ever in Rochester, stop in. Leave me a message - I'll meet you there. Believe me, if it's your first time, you'll need a tour guide just so you don't get lost in the maze.

 

They're featured in an Epiphone news article on a weekly basis.

[wrighty3693]

The UK has some very good stores namely;

 

Northern Music

Dolphin Music

G.A.K