What if........

[stan 58]

What if you took the China Factory lock, stock, and barrel and moved it down south in the USA. And you used the SAME wood, parts ect, would that change any ones mind about buying an EPI, and how much more would they cost? Stan.

[JohnMcClane5000]

Why not move back to Korea, where people really can build guitars!

I don't understand does Epiphone use the Korean plant for Limited Editions only? I think that's rediculous. I hate chinese guitars, especially because they make cheap, phony copies of everything that has a Copyright or a Patent.

I have nothing against China, but why not produce guitars, where the epi people have expierience?

 

 

Nick20

[snookelputz]

Same as the stuff coming from Nashville, and Memphis and Bozeman, and Coronado. The difference in cost of materials can appear tremendous, when viewed as a lump sum over time - but really isn't so great on a month-to-month basis when compared to the (IMHO) $8-12/hour difference in pay for every employee in the facility, from cleaning and maintenance right straight through production and admin and security. Which is paid in much larger chunks of moola in weekly, bi-weekly or monthly crises of finding last minute infusions of cash to put in the payroll accounts. And that's not all of it. There's the absolutely HUGE cost of supporting a work force making that amount of pay. Charitable contributions, taxes, payroll tax (don't forget employers pay a payroll tax to the govt that is equal to the amount of withholding deducted from your paycheck which is over and above your paycheck itself), medical, property and personal insurance, utilities, yada, yada, yada -- and ALL OF THOSE expenses are at a rate commensurate with providing THEIR employees a standard of living equal to your own.

 

Looked at one way, the cost of building all the infrastructure, and the training, and the plant -- the startup costs of that factory must have been in the scarier regions of multimillion dollar operations. I expect the Epi execs may have had to pledge a pound of flesh from near the heart to get it done. Looked at from the other end of that view, consider how much worse the outlook must have been (economically) to make the scheme practical.

[brad1]

Why not move back to Korea' date=' where people really can build guitars!

I don't understand does Epiphone use the Korean plant for Limited Editions only? I think that's rediculous. I hate chinese guitars, especially because they make cheap, phony copies of everything that has a Copyright or a Patent.

I have nothing against China, but why not produce guitars, where the epi people have expierience?

 

 

Nick20[/quote']

I have a '97 LP MIK (Limited Edition), and a '97 Epi SG Jr. MIK (different factory).

And then I have an '06 Epi G400 MIC.

The Chinese "EE" G400 is, by far, superior in every way.

To say "I hate Chinese guitars", is being quite ignorant IMO.

[duane v]

What if you took the China Factory lock' date=' stock, and barrel and moved it down south in the USA. And you used the SAME wood, parts ect, would that change any ones mind about buying an EPI, and how much more would they cost? Stan.[/quote']

 

It sure would bring me out of the vintage Epi used market..... I'll also do Japanese manufactured Epi instruments without too much reflection.... But I refuse to purchase China or Korean made Epi's, and this has nothing to do with quality, because the quality is great for the price point.

 

To respond to the second part of your question.... You probably wouldn't see an all USA made Epi under $1000 dollars, so Epi would be eliminating a large group of Epi buyers.... But why Epi can't have a combination of USA made Epi's and Korean made Epi's still puzzles me a little.

[Hiberna]

**** america, the'd probably employ gringos anyway for cheap labour.

 

gogo japan, japanese guitars nowadays are really really good, look at all the high end ibanez's. price would be a tiny bit more but damn worth it.

 

id love some guitars to come out of england, but then again, with wanting to employ cheap labour would probably mean you'd end up getting guitars stinking of cocaine and covered in pre-teen morning sickness.

 

EDIT i didnt mean yeehaw, i meant that wonderful word that stars with f and ends with K

[Canine]

I don't think that the politicians in DC are actually interested in growing domestic production.

 

Lord, we pay taxes on taxes on taxes and that's just the state, then comes the Feds to take their cut, and then taxes on everything we buy with whatever is left after they took what they wanted.

 

Paying $10 an hour ain't that much, it looks that way, but in reality the worker is just taking a fraction of that home. The entire system is messed up and that's why competition seems so unfair and there's this huge movement to outsource everything just to be competitive.

[duane v]

**** america' date=' the'd probably employ gringos anyway for cheap labour.

 

[/quote']

 

what is a definition of a "gringo" where you come from?

 

Just a little history as to where the definition of "gringo" came from....

 

Gringo = Green-Go

 

During the Mexican-American Conflict..... When an American soldier was spotted by Mexican soldiers, they would yell out "Green-Go." Because of the color (green) the American soldiers wore.

 

Now, the term gringo is associated with a white man.

[charlie brown]

Epiphone (Gisbon) is an American company! Qingdao is a Chinese plant, owned and run by Epiphone.

Why all the "hate?" Chinese luthiers, woodworkers are some of the better in the world. The "quality"

will be dictated more so, by American Corporate policy, than by the factory workers. If Epiphone/Gibson

decided to make "Elitist" or USA quality instruments..In China, they'd happen! Don't blame the workers

for doing what Corporate dictates. And...don't blame Chinese people for their government's shortcommings.

As to shoddy labor practices, opportunism, and lax consumer protection...WE have plenty of that , in this country!

(Had any peanut butter, lately?)

 

;>)

 

CB

[duane v]

CB

 

Expect China manufactured goods to dramtically raise in price the next 5 years.... It's already happeneing

[pohatu771]

Honestly, for an electric guitar, I'd rather spend the same money on an import than on a Made-in-USA. A few years ago, an SG Faded was $600, just like the Casino and Sheraton. I think my Casino is a nicer guitar than my friend's SG Faded.

 

Plus, does it matter what country the machine is located in? A lot of the work is done by machines anyway.

 

Gibson should consider doing all of the machine work in the low-cost areas, and bringing the guitars back to Nashville for finishing and the more delicate work. If they aren't signature guitars, maybe they'll end up costing less than the Lennon Casino.

[duane v]

 

Gibson should consider doing all of the machine work in the low-cost areas' date=' and bringing the guitars back to Nashville for finishing and the more delicate work. If they aren't signature guitars, maybe they'll end up costing less than the Lennon Casino.[/quote']

 

don't there have to be jobs for Americans so they can buy guitars???

[charlie brown]

CB

 

Expect China manufactured goods to dramtically raise in price the next 5 years.... It's already happeneing

 

Oh yeah! And...I was stopped at a rail-road crossing, out here in the "sticks," and noticed (not the first time) the

amount of freight/box cars, carrying Chinese company logos, to be easily 20 to one, agaisnt USA companies.

And that freight train was a LOOOOONNNNGGGG one, too! So....

 

 

CB

[pohatu771]

 

don't there have to be jobs for Americans so they can buy guitars???

I meant for Epiphones, so if anything, Gibson would have to hire more Americans.

[fenrirlupus]

i think i want their main factory in korea and elitist models in the US.

 

-a new factory though, not just gibson custom shop. epiphone should be a separate entity.

[duane v]

As we will see further on as this thread developes, out of ten Epi buyers, seven will be more than content with purchasing a China made Epi, and the powers that be at Gibson knows this. Until that changes with the buying market there will always be a market for China made Epi's

 

In the last three months I've purchased two Gibsons, a new Melody Maker and a Les Paul Jr. for a grand total of $1230...... My small contribution to the American work force.

[fenrirlupus]

 

Oh yeah! And...I was stopped at a rail-road crossing' date=' out here in the "sticks," and noticed (not the first time) the

amount of freight/box cars, carrying Chinese company logos, to be easily 20 to one, agaisnt USA companies.

And that freight train was a LOOOOONNNNGGGG one, too! So....

 

 

CB

[/quote']

hmm...

 

i'm not an obama fan AT ALL, but i hope he does something about the whole china > us thing...

i don't want a communist country to become more powerful than us, and if it takes a socialist leader here (for 4 years only, god willing) so be it.

 

i want epiphone products to be made in south korea, japan, or maybe OUR china (not red china... as in... taiwan. not "taipeng" as china wants it to be called now.)

 

maybe an embargo with china until they free tibet and admit that taiwan is a country?

 

whatever.

 

 

... sorry though, i had to buy my amplifier, even though it was made in "P.R. China." of course, i diddn't buy it from a store, so it really wasn't my money going to china, it was the guy who i bought it from whose money went to china :P

[duane v]

hmm...

 

i'm not an obama fan AT ALL' date=' but i hope he does something about the whole china > us thing...

i don't want a communist country to become more powerful than us, and if it takes a socialist leader here (for 4 years only, god willing) so be it.

 

i want epiphone products to be made in south korea, japan, or maybe OUR china (not red china... as in... taiwan. not "taipeng" as china wants it to be called now.)

 

maybe an embargo with china until they free tibet and admit that taiwan is a country?

 

whatever.

 

 

... sorry though, i had to buy my amplifier, even though it was made in "P.R. China." of course, i diddn't buy it from a store, so it really wasn't my money going to china, it was the guy who i bought it from whose money went to china :P

[/quote']

 

dont apaologize, as long as it meets your expectations that is all that matters.

 

Obama isnt going to change the way America buys, it's up to the American people.

[brad1]

**** america' date=' the'd probably employ gringos anyway for cheap labour.

 

[/quote']

Duane's right.

And "Gringo's" are exactly who we want working in the factories.

[duane v]

Duane's right.

And "Gringo's" are exactly who we want working in the factories.

 

for the record that is not what I meant.

 

As long as the person is documented and legal. It shouldn't matter if the individual is black, white, brown, yellow, red or whatever color or ethnic background.

[BlueLesPaul2006]

My Les Paul is a EE from china and I love it. My LP is rock solid.

[brad1]

 

for the record that is not what I meant.

 

As long as the person is documented and legal. It shouldn't matter if the individual is black' date=' white, brown, yellow, red or whatever color or ethnic background.[/quote']

I did not imply that you meant anything. I was agreeing with your definition of Gringo.

The "And" at the beginning of the next sentence should have been a clue that I was now stating my own thought.

And it was a joke. I only meant we want Americans working, not illegal aliens.

My God, are we touchy!

[duane v]

I did not imply that you meant anything. I was agreeing with your definition of Gringo.

The "And" at the beginning of the next sentence should have been a clue that I was now stating my own thought.

And it was a joke. I only meant we want Americans working' date=' not illegal aliens.

My God, are we touchy![/quote']

 

just clariying myself if I was unclear, or if someone is confused about my statement regarding the term "gringo."

 

not upset at all.

[brad1]

 

just clariying myself if I was unclear' date=' or if someone is confused about my statement regarding the term "gringo."

 

not upset at all.[/quote']

Good! Me either.

[Svet]

Give a human being the proper training, tools, materials and facilities and he/she can build you anything you want. I'm so tired of hearing items are garbage because they are made by whomever. The Chinese can make a high quality guitar too. Don't believe me, well I have one thing to add; Eastman. That's right, they are made in China and the two I own will compete with any guitar out there. Boutique or mass produced.

My two Eastman’s (810ce and 910 ce)