milod Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Watching the byplay here... and having talked with both parents and "kids" at last night's high school awards night... (I was "shooting" kids get scholarships and such.) It was kinda neat to see how some families were making a pretty good shift between "parent and kiddies" and "Parents and adult children" - and others obviously were beginning to have some problems. Some, it appeared to this old man outsider, were because the "kids" perhaps are likely never to become grownups even if they do have children themselves, and some because some parents didn't wanna let go. Life's interesting. It's why we humans learned to write and make pictures, I think, largely because we think it's interesting enough to record... But it's also interesting to me... I just did a piece on a "little girl" I'd written about some years ago, and she just won a Fulbright grant as a grad student. We now know some places and "professional journalist" things in common; and regardless the 40 years age diff, the phone call was now adult to adult. It's a neat shift between kid and adult in relationships... But it's also a shift I think some folks never quite manage in terms of relating as "adult to adult," having empathy for, and recognizing the individuality of the other. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Forgive me, KSD, I remember now when that was posted here. She sounded like a great woman and a great wife. January to now is not a long time to have made an adjustment considering what I read about her and what kind of woman she was. Sounds like double duty: Not only not having her to help and support you, but having to fill her role as well. It MUST be hard on them as well, regardless of who it may be harder on at the moment. They might not be exactly a help right now, but also, you are all they have. They need you now not only for you, but for her. I be praying for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 KSD, It is good that you put you're foot down, sure times are hard, maybe they can't find jobs.... But they have no right to a cell phone, let alone top of the line stuff. What bothers me is they have not stepped up to do house work, yard work etc... you should sit down and figure out just how much this has cost you print it and present it to them and demand that they figure out how they will make it right.... And forget paying couch boy to replace the roof.. You have had a tuff year, you have not had a chance to deal with the loss of you're wife and now you have to deal with this...sorry bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Sorry but letting an adult child live at home and not work or go to school is setting your child up to become a ward of the state down the line or worse. No one should have the luxury of doing nothing. It's not good for the soul. Yeah, I think we've pretty much got a handle on YOUR particular brand of wisdom, bucko. My daughter lived at home until she was 23.... turned out to be quite the failure. Oh, no.. wait.... she's the GM of a major hotel... that's right. /chuckle All people are different. Kids are people, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Everybody is different and kids are hard especially now. I got kicked out of the house on my 16th birthday and had to really struggle to stay in school and survice and so I probably spoiled the girl we raised but it was always within reason and I never felt taken advantage of. I told my girl that I would allow her to stay at home and I would even supply a car as long as she was a full time student and as long as she was maintaining a B average or better, which is easy for her to do as school was never a challenge for her. Everything else was based on allowances and handling her own checkbook and savings from the age of 13 on. Cell phone are probably mandatory nowadays for a kid so I paid and still pay for a family plan that covers most everything but anything above a basic cost she has to cover. The only other rule I had that was hard and fast is no boyfriend is ever living at the house. I don't care what the story is I won't support somebody else's kid to live with my daughter, if they are old enough to live together they better be old enough to afford it. I guess if she was married and they had an emergency or something I might change that on a temporary basis but as single young adults no way in hell. My girl is 22 now and out on her own sadly enough and doing very well, she lives with two other people from her band and other than stealing music gear every once in a while she doesn't really ask for anything anymore. There only young once I guess but how long they act like it is kind of up to us as parents also. I did pay off her student loans in full but she graduated with honors and i told her when she started that if she graduated with full honors it would be loan free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 It is also important to remain STABLE and NON-TWICHY......... .....ie, level headed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 For me the money wouldn't really be an issue or even having people/family living with us.. Like any parent I'd do almost anything for my kids but I wouldn't be a doormat! Your family needs to pull their weight and help you out, otherwise an atmosphere breeding contempt arises... Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Both of my daughters go to college and they are home for the summer. The oldest WAS working and the business closed several months ago. She gets unemployment with a student deferral. She has a Camry, which is financed. $170 a month. The payment is her responsibility as is the insurance. She is on my policy but she is to pay me what the cost for (full) coverage is every month, about $70. Her boyfriend lives with us and works on a semi-regular basis. He does not contribute to the household expenses. However I cut him a lot of slack because he will be putting a new roof on my house this summer and does not want to be paid for his labor. I do plan to pay him however, even if it's ten bucks an hour, just to make it worth his while to some degree, in addition to the room and board he's gotten for the last 7-8 months. We have a massive behemoth of a cell phone plan that runs about $250 a month. All the bells and whistles. Smart phones, mobile hot spots, the whole deal. I have a 4 year old Motorola with no internet access. I am supposed to pay so much and she and her boyfriend are to pay the balance (we've tweaked the details so it all makes sense, although I can't quote them on command). The past two months I have made her car payment because she was broke. Ditto for the cell phone and insurance. They eat my food, use my washer and dryer, and yet I have to come home after working my admittedly overpaid and underworked government job and do the dishes and clean the cat box. I left her a note this morning and told her I was not paying her car payment next month and she needs to make arrangements to see that it gets paid. I then went on Verizons site and ascertained when each cell phone plan expires and then de-authorized her as an account manager, lest any cell phone plans get extended without my consent (there will be no consent). I'm sick of being walked on. I have enough on my plate, trying to heal from the loss of Tammie and now juggling time with two single white females, both psycho in their own way. Ginger and Mary Ann time. Don't get me started on them. I need to focus on getting MY s___ together and don't need my checkbook drained while I'm preoccupied elsewhere. Back me up here, guys. Tell me I'm doing right by being an a** hole. it has NOTHING to do w/being an a-hole Daddy..........it just sounds like time to take charge of your home and life, and teach the kid(s) that nothing in life is free.....if you don't do it now, it may NEVER happen. I started working at 14, when I was tossed from school at 16 the 1st thing my Dad did was tell me that i'd pay rent (on my bedroom, and food) every month or live elsewhere, and that if I chose to pay rent, it was still HIS house, so HIS rules applied. I learned really quickly that "living free" isn't a reality, and that unless I bought my own home, i'd have to abide by someone elses rules. He also never bought me a car.....bought my own 4 months before I turned 15. I thought he was just a "harda**" when I was growing up, but he was giving me "life lessons" and preparing me to face the world the entire time. A while back I thanked him for teaching me these lessons, and for having a BIG hand in making me a self sufficient, succsessful adult that relys on nobody but myself. Your daughter(s) may get mad at you NOW, but it's for their own good, and they'll thank you later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namvet Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Both of my daughters go to college and they are home for the summer. The oldest WAS working and the business closed several months ago. She gets unemployment with a student deferral. She has a Camry, which is financed. $170 a month. The payment is her responsibility as is the insurance. She is on my policy but she is to pay me what the cost for (full) coverage is every month, about $70. Her boyfriend lives with us and works on a semi-regular basis. He does not contribute to the household expenses. However I cut him a lot of slack because he will be putting a new roof on my house this summer and does not want to be paid for his labor. I do plan to pay him however, even if it's ten bucks an hour, just to make it worth his while to some degree, in addition to the room and board he's gotten for the last 7-8 months. We have a massive behemoth of a cell phone plan that runs about $250 a month. All the bells and whistles. Smart phones, mobile hot spots, the whole deal. I have a 4 year old Motorola with no internet access. I am supposed to pay so much and she and her boyfriend are to pay the balance (we've tweaked the details so it all makes sense, although I can't quote them on command). The past two months I have made her car payment because she was broke. Ditto for the cell phone and insurance. They eat my food, use my washer and dryer, and yet I have to come home after working my admittedly overpaid and underworked government job and do the dishes and clean the cat box. I left her a note this morning and told her I was not paying her car payment next month and she needs to make arrangements to see that it gets paid. I then went on Verizons site and ascertained when each cell phone plan expires and then de-authorized her as an account manager, lest any cell phone plans get extended without my consent (there will be no consent). I'm sick of being walked on. I have enough on my plate, trying to heal from the loss of Tammie and now juggling time with two single white females, both psycho in their own way. Ginger and Mary Ann time. Don't get me started on them. I need to focus on getting MY s___ together and don't need my checkbook drained while I'm preoccupied elsewhere. Back me up here, guys. Tell me I'm doing right by being an a** hole. I am in basically the same boat as you. A few months ago I cut out the financial aid etc and told my daughter I'm done. They may view it as us being a$$holes but at some point, young adults will have to learn to be responsible for themselves. Cutting off assuming that responsibility for them is the first step. Its not being a bad parent, just a step in teaching independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I wouldn't label you as an a__hole, just a parent. As a kid I try to pay for everything I possibly can (including my 1300 dollar strat, and accessories). But my sister, is the complete opposite, she pays for absolutely nothing. It's irksome in the sense that my parents let her (for lack of a better way of putting it) be a freeloader a lot of the time, while complaining if I don't buy my own pack of gum. It's all how you handle it, and you have to be consistent (favoritism breeds anger, trust me I know). Were I in your situation I'd be in the same boat, they should all be working their asses off to pull their own weight. When they get to a certain age, it shouldn't be a free ride. They should respect that you're in a transitional part of your life, and you need some support (monetarily, emotionally, whatever they can offer). Don't risk destroying your relationship with your daughter though, best make sure she knows you love and care for her. But I do hope, with a calm talk, she'll understand, and try to help. About kicking them out, I don't think that is necessarily the "best" thing to do. For some it may be (my cousin has been going through a rough patch of late, and has cut ties with the family for 2 years to figure himself out), but in this instance I think it'd be better to work up to them moving out. Sometimes harsh action is necessary, but so close to the loss of a loved one it may not be the best idea. They may not realize it now but they may soon realize that you're trying to do what's best. The way I was raised was, no excess, no bullshit, self-reliance. I try to stick to the bare essentials (and yes I consider a 1300 dollar guitar an essential :P), so maybe ask if the cell bill can be cut to normal service, mine costs 30 bucks a month, no internet, no problem. Oh and about the note thing, in my experience what sometimes it too tough to get out in words can be put down on paper. Most of the arguments in my family devolve into chaos, and nothing gets accomplishes. I've found that it's very easy to write everything down, and pass it on. You're a good man KS, no doubt about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnastynebr Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 You don't want to harm family relationships, but you don't want your daughter to get in the habit depending on other people to make ends meet. You must have your reasons for letting your young daughter's boyfriend crash (although admittedly a little weird), but he doesn't have the roof done yet, so I wouldn't give him credit until its done. Some people will exploit relationships and burn bridges. You don't want your daughter to become one of those people. Lay down some guidelines and stick to them. Examine the reasons that you allow her unemployed boyfriend to crash without paying bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Another angle here is that, a taste of reality might cause better choices in men. Like perhaps, realizing a man who will support her is much different than a man who won't. Keep in mind this observation is in no way based on reality or knowledge of the true facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 It's been studied and written for years that music education and playing an instrument aids in children growing up to be "successful" - although "success" obviously is very much an individual assessment. This whole thread in one way makes me feel pretty good about the younger folks we have on the board, if nothing else. Regardless of the specifics, well considered comments... In another sense it's kinda a generation bridge. Regardless of our age, we're people with feelings in spite of different roles in life. Yeah, I think KS daughter should be a lot more supportive. And realistic. Here's a "funny one" on similar lines. My mother was killed in a car wreck when I was 15; I had two younger siblings. Dad and I talked one night and I told him he had to "go out" and be with more people. He did just that, although I didn't expect him to be dating, which he did. This June, although he's gone, it's gonna be a 50-year "anniversary" lunch with my Mom whom he married. My point isn't entirely to KS on this, but all of us. Just talking and caring isn't all bad. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 A bit harsh... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Dad and I talked one night and I told him he had to "go out" and be with more people. He did just that, although I didn't expect him to be dating, which he did. I hereby confess to openly and rabidly courting one of Tammie's best friends. I've known her for 12 years and we have always been on great terms. She's the kind of girl you can tell a dirty joke too and she will laugh harder than us. She has been in a couple failed marriages and one severely brutal live-in arrangement with police involved about every third day. She's an RN, very independant (now anyway), 44 years old, 5'8", 130 lbs, blonde with the World's Most Perfect Ponytail (picture a real-life version of Betty Cooper from the Archie comics) and she is the most beautiful woman in the word, says, I, and that's the bottom line. We have the support of both her kids and mine and we have discussed ad nauseum the pitfalls we may encounter, trying to make a transition from casual friendship to a relationship. She wants me to slow down because she feels I'm still grieving (I am) and she doesn't want me to go rushing into something. She's "hard" because of past b.s. but my charming ways are wearing her down. And her parents like me. I'd post pics but she would be embarrassed and I respect that. Trust me. She's a friggin' knockout; WAY out of my league. She is a goddess and if she asked me to sh** I'd ask "How big a pile?" And Tammie? About a month before she passed away she turned to me and asked... "So..., are you and (name deleted) going to hook up after I'm gone?" I asked her what she was talking about and she just shrugged. To this day I don't know where that came from. There was ever anything going on, ever. And there's not a heck of a lot going on NOW for that matter, other than me forgetting about any and all troubles when I'm with her and being sick as a dog and suicidal when I'm not. She's not a replacement for my wife of 23 years, I'm not kidding myself there, but when I'm with her I feel ALIVE again. Take it for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 There's never a "replacement." It'd never work if you tried. Each human relationship is unique and cannot be replaced. I wrote a Mother's Day newspaper column once about my two Moms. Totally different ladies; totally special, both of them, each in their own way. You've got my best wishes no matter what ensues. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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