This is what I mean when I say the J-45 is so good with the singing voice

[onewilyfool]

Nick Lowe, unplugged

 

[j45nick]

But Wily, that's no J-45......

[larryp58]

But Wily, that's no J-45......

 

.......... .........

[onewilyfool]

I should have said "Gibsons".....lol.....Notice he just plays with his thumb only......interesting technique

[Duende]

Although used his mainly his thumb, I think he made the instrument sound nice. i.e - that could have been a made in China entry level Epiphone and he still would have gotten a nice sound from it!

 

I think us guitarists praise/blame the instrument for 'the sound' and in general put a disproportional amount of emphasis on the instrument, i.e what brand it is, what woods it is made from etc etc, when mainly the sound comes from us and our ability to coax a good sound from our instrument. The instrument is a very tiny, tiny, cherry on the cake IMHO

 

 

Matt

[j45nick]

I should have said "Gibsons".....lol.....Notice he just plays with his thumb only......interesting technique

 

Wes Montgomery did a pretty good job of playing just with his thumb.......

 

Of course, he had a pretty exceptional thumb.

[E-minor7]

Wes Montgomery did a pretty good job of playing just with his thumb.......

 

Of course, he had a pretty exceptional thumb.

Funny - I just saw a program about this guy, , , I mean 1 minute ago, and looked him up on the web. A Gibson player btw.

 

Mister Lowe seems to feature his Everly Bros.

[moej45]

Although used his mainly his thumb, I think he made the instrument sound nice. i.e - that could have been a made in China entry level Epiphone and he still would have gotten a nice sound from it!

 

I think us guitarists praise/blame the instrument for 'the sound' and in general put a disproportional amount of emphasis on the instrument, i.e what brand it is, what woods it is made from etc etc, when mainly the sound comes from us and our ability to coax a good sound from our instrument. The instrument is a very tiny, tiny, cherry on the cake IMHO

 

 

Matt

 

 

Tremendous point here. I think it's great to have an excellent guitar but if you don't have the songs or ability to get something unique out of it....it's just a nice guitar. I've written over 50 songs and I would say I've written 47 of them on a $150 20 year old Yamaha beater. In comparison to my J45 yeah its a piece of junk. But I've gotten plenty of great stuff out of that piece of junk.

[EuroAussie]

While on the topic, Im right now learnig this track as the boys want add it at our next Hard Rock gig.

 

I thought the SJ being used here goes marvelously with the voice in this case also, tuned down half a step.

 

Bit of a different generation Wily, but hopefully equally as talented. :-)

 

[j45nick]

While on the topic, Im right now learnig this track as the boys want add it at our next Hard Rock gig.

 

I thought the SJ being used here goes marvelously with the voice in this case also, tuned down half a step.

 

Bit of a different generation Wily, but hopefully equally as talented. :-)

 

 

 

EA, that's a good song, and a good performance, despite the overkill on the delay/reverb by the engineer. I hope the singer doesn't expect to be singing that song this way a decade from now, as he won't have any voice left. Just ask Rod Stewart.

[EuroAussie]

Axctually I think he's aware of that and they also do a 'soft version' below, which is what we will be going for. Of course it doesnt sound as good on a Martin .. ;-)

 

Btw: the singer is one of the leads from the movie 'Fight Club' with Brad Pitt.

 

 

EA, that's a good song, and a good performance, despite the overkill on the delay/reverb by the engineer. I hope the singer doesn't expect to be singing that song this way a decade from now, as he won't have any voice left. Just ask Rod Stewart.

[vincentw]

Lowe proves that it's all in the vocal melody, really, and the guitar is indeed accompaniment.

[BluesKing777]

Yes - start with this technique and everything else learned on acoustic guitar is so you don't repeat yourself over and over and...

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[retrorod]

While on the topic, Im right now learnig this track as the boys want add it at our next Hard Rock gig.

 

I thought the SJ being used here goes marvelously with the voice in this case also, tuned down half a step.

 

Bit of a different generation Wily, but hopefully equally as talented. :-)

 

Talented...YES! But I really don,t 'get' the whole "hoodie thing"!

If my Mom had MADE me dress like that....I would have cried....

[MissouriPicker]

Good ponts made in this thread. I think we do put too much importance on the particular guitar. It's the performer who has to make the song work. For myself, most of the songs I've written were written while I had a beater lying on the floor beside my recliner. Sure, it is always great to play a finished song on a steller guitar, but the song was likely conceived with a low-life.

[retrorod]

Although used his mainly his thumb, I think he made the instrument sound nice. i.e - that could have been a made in China entry level Epiphone and he still would have gotten a nice sound from it!

 

I think us guitarists praise/blame the instrument for 'the sound' and in general put a disproportional amount of emphasis on the instrument, i.e what brand it is, what woods it is made from etc etc, when mainly the sound comes from us and our ability to coax a good sound from our instrument. The instrument is a very tiny, tiny, cherry on the cake IMHO

 

 

Matt

WELL said, Matt...AND MissouriPicker

[j45nick]

 

 

I think us guitarists praise/blame the instrument for 'the sound' and in general put a disproportional amount of emphasis on the instrument, i.e what brand it is, what woods it is made from etc etc, when mainly the sound comes from us and our ability to coax a good sound from our instrument. The instrument is a very tiny, tiny, cherry on the cake IMHO

 

 

Matt

 

You are right, of course, but it is the part of the cake that those of us who aren't so good at coaxing great sounds out of any old beater love to obsess about. And yes, the guitar DOES make a difference in a lot of cases. We're not all David Crosby or Neil Young here, with either great voices or great songs to sing. The guitar has to speak for us, and I have a much better chance of sounding decent on a great guitar.

 

Some guitars make even the most mediocre of us sound better. I play just for myself now, and I love the sound that comes out of my good guitars, even when I play them poorly. I try to imagine what they would sound like if I knew what I was doing.

 

On the other hand, there are guitarists who can make ANY guitar sound like a million bucks. I'm not one of them.

[E-minor7]

Have you old guys and girls noticed. We have a jubilee or milestone or whatever today.

 

250 pages !

 

That means 250 pages of high-quality-guitar talk and now you all come and say the guitar doesn't matter.

Don't you forget how much a good instrument give away.

 

At the other hand I fully agree : A low-key 6-string can make miracles. Song-smith wise, groove wise even sound wise. A humble worn out piece of steel and wood can be irreplaceable.

But 2 things must be in order - it has to be in tune and have the right action. And Gibsons are eminent at staying in tune.

[wonderful remark]

Well, here is a couple with a beautiful J45.

 

 

 

[j45nick]

You'll get a kick out of this one, and say "of course, you dummy"!

 

I normally play in my studio/office, sitting on a tall stool behind my guitar, like you might do in a club performance. Tonight, I took my J-45 into the family room to sit on the couch and noodle during TV commercials. Instead of sitting behind the guitar, I was lying down with it across my stomach, so that my face was pretty much over the soundhole, rather than above and behind the guitar.

 

What a difference in the voice of the guitar! I had absolutely forgotten what a different tone and character the guitar projects out to the audience, rather than back to the performer. It's one reason we used to have monitors on stage pointed at us--so we could hear what we were doing.

 

My old J-45 really is a wonderful creature, and I'm ashamed that I ever thought she was ordinary. After a 45-year love affair, I was beginning to take her for granted, messin' around with those other fancy girls with their sleek ebony boards and sensual rosewood bodies. Tonight I fell in love all over again.

 

45 years this month with this old girl. She's survived a couple of marriages and many storms--and that's just with me. She doesn't talk much about her past before we met. I know she had a hard life, but she made a lot of people laugh, cry, and want to sing along. She still does that to me.

 

Guitars DO matter!

[Duende]

Guitars DO matter!

 

Hi Nick

 

I completely with that too

 

Sorry to only high light this from your post, but from reading the thread - and also to reiterate my 'OP' ; the point I was making was that us guitarists have a rather disproportionate view of the production of timbre: i.e citing the quality of the gear we are using as being the 'problem' or solution (by problem/solution I mean say a guitar sounding a particular way) opposed to the realisation that the majority of tone comes from the person them self.

 

A nice sound can be achieved by anyone with patience and practice, I don't think it is this mysterious thing, only for select people, it is there for the taking. For example sometimes a seemingly 'tin - like' timbre can be altered with the subtle change of a wrist's position, a nicely buffered set of right nails (if you finger pick) combined with some good right hand exercises etc can be what adds the warmth a certain section needed.

So yes I agree with Em 7 and your post whole heartedly,

 

Of course the guitar is important - but IMO not AS important as the player.

 

Matt

 

p.s

 

In my recital diploma one piece suited the tone only my £150 Admira could make! So as bizarre as it felt, I took two guitars with me

to the exam; my cheap Admira and my hand made Classical. Horses for courses! what is $$$ isn't always the best... some times a guitar that is just $, is better for the tone on some things

[j45nick]

Of course the guitar is important - but IMO not AS important as the player.

 

Matt

 

p.s

 

In my recital diploma one piece suited the tone only my £150 Admira could make! So as bizarre as it felt, I took two guitars with me

to the exam; my cheap Admira and my hand made Classical. Horses for courses! what is $$$ isn't always the best... some times a guitar that is just $, is better for the tone on some things

 

Amen to that. An expensive guitar with a lyrical voice is not always the right instrument for the piece, just like a big Martin dred is not the tool to play the blues. Use the right guitar for the song, and with luck, it will help you convey the feeling you are looking for.

[onewilyfool]

Well..let me repeat my original statement in a different way.....I just saw this youtube vid, and thought to myself......wow, this is one of the things I really like about Gibsons...they sound soooo good with the human voice. I think the great mids and bass contribute to that, maybe better than a Taylor for instance, which tend to be brighter. Especially in this video, because the player was using such a simple thumbing technique, that the guitar playing was not virtuoso, but just a support for the voice. I was not saying "the guitar makes the musician" or wherever this thread has gone......just that Gibson's sound good with the singing voice, ant that this is one of the reasons that they are so popular with singer/songwriters......does anyone see my point?

 

 

[Duende]

Well..let me repeat my original statement in a different way.....I just saw this youtube vid, and thought to myself......wow, this is one of the things I really like about Gibsons...they sound soooo good with the human voice. I think the great mids and bass contribute to that, maybe better than a Taylor for instance, which tend to be brighter. Especially in this video, because the player was using such a simple thumbing technique, that the guitar playing was not virtuoso, but just a support for the voice. I was not saying "the guitar makes the musician" or wherever this thread has gone......just that Gibson's sound good with the singing voice, ant that this is one of the reasons that they are so popular with singer/songwriters......does anyone see my point?

 

Hi Wily

 

I understand what you meant, but then my mind (like it does) then asked the questions that appeared in the thread, i.e how much of a guitar is really the guitar - and how much the person etc playing etc etc

 

But yes, I can see that you like Gibson acoustics very much and I enjoyed the clip and thought he made a nice sound, sorry about the tangent and cheers.

 

Matt

[j45nick]

Well..let me repeat my original statement in a different way.....I just saw this youtube vid, and thought to myself......wow, this is one of the things I really like about Gibsons...they sound soooo good with the human voice. I think the great mids and bass contribute to that, maybe better than a Taylor for instance, which tend to be brighter. Especially in this video, because the player was using such a simple thumbing technique, that the guitar playing was not virtuoso, but just a support for the voice. I was not saying "the guitar makes the musician" or wherever this thread has gone......just that Gibson's sound good with the singing voice, ant that this is one of the reasons that they are so popular with singer/songwriters......does anyone see my point?

 

Point taken, and fully agree. That's one reason I play Gibsons. And unfortunately, your cartoon is the story of my life.