Guest farnsbarns Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'll be right behind you. rct Book me in too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 exactly, so many people come on the internet and ask questions and no matter how right or wrong we are its their decision. What sounds right to me might sound wrong to someone else. Hopefully the OP will actually go to a music store and actually play a few... By your logic, wouldn't he only need to play one? .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 By your logic, wouldn't he only need to play one? .... By his logic, just order off the internet and don't worry about it, they all sound the same. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 By his logic, just order off the internet and don't worry about it, they all sound the same. rct I am smellin' what Guitarest is stepping in. I'm Just given' him a hard time. All in good natured fun... How you been RCT? Keepin' everybody in line here? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentw Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hello! I´m struggling with what guitar to buy. If I want the most genuine LP tone with outstanding substain, what should I look for then? And what makes that tone? (Body, neck, top?) Thanks! if you want genuine Les Paul tone...you gotta buy a Les Paul. If you want outstanding substain...I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I am smellin' what Guitarest is stepping in. I'm Just given' him a hard time. All in good natured fun... How you been RCT? Keepin' everybody in line here? Andy Oh same ol' ribbin is all I'm giving him. Keepin everybody in line? No way. Haven't you heard the innernetz is the wild west??? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Personally I Hear a pretty noticeable difference between the Bursbuckers and 490's. Bursbuckers are my favorite Gibby PU, 490's are good enough to leave in the guitar but they just don't have the depth of the Burstbuckers. I think if you never had a Les Paul then a studio would sound like genuine Les Paul tone, but if you were used to the Gibby's and Les Pauls you might hear what's lacking in a Studio and want a Trad or Custom. A friend of mine has a Les Paul Studio and I just don't hear the Punch that I hear from my other friends Les Paul Custom. It's not the Amp, either. They both use Marshalls most of the time, but the last time I saw my Custom friend he had a Raven amp (yeah, he was gigging with a Raven and running his LP Custom, Limited Edition Custom V, and LP Robot through it ), I could still hear the quality of the guitars and pickups as well as the limitations of the Amp. Granted, my Custom friend is a more seasoned player than my Studio friend so he may have a defter hand at setting his amps, but to my ears the Studio is just lacking that punch that you get from the Custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 if you want genuine Les Paul tone...you gotta buy a Les Paul. If you want outstanding substain...I have no idea. My Les Pauls take Cialis for daily use.............Just sayin'..... .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 By his logic, just order off the internet and don't worry about it, they all sound the same. rct ....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Book me in too. yeppers... sell me a ticket too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Jocko makes some interesting points... A few years ago I had a long conversation with several notable luthiers in London's famous Denmark Street that said a Les Paul studio (with an ebony fret board), was identical in quality and structure to a custom. They said it in reference to the many frustrations of working as a luthier and knowing guitars inside out, yet still having people believe their own logic (or lack of it I suppose). In fairness that was before the Custom was made in the Gibson 'custom shop' (again I have noticed no improvement from the modern CS Customs to the USA customs either) and also The Studio was a little heavier; so the example is only relevant to the those guitars from that period and before. Additionally, I also recall on the Gibson website (quite a while back now), before burst buckers (and all the weird and wonderful varities etc that Gibson have now); tadvertising the Studio as a Standard that was (paraphrased), all the quality of the Standard but minus the binding and for the studio musician. My own view is that guitars all sound different model to model anyway, even without the body mass and touch of the player. Also some amps 'belong' to some guitars and bring out it's characteristics more. There are so many factors, but I feel as usual, us guitarists put way too much emphasis on the guitar and not how we can use our own techniques to coax the best out of an instrument! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I miss the days when Studio meant Studio, as in, "Not Ornate, but still sounds the same". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think we're all getting slightly distracted here. ...my main point is all LP's have LP Tone... That, unless I completely misunderstand guitarests posts, is what he is saying each time. He knows there are variations from guitar to guitar and p-up to p-up but those variations are subtle relative to the choice of guitar used in the first place; ie, a Strat, Tele or LP. Sure, we individual players can detect the nuances of one guitar over another but, as far as the listening public are concerned, the guitar will sound like a Les Paul regardless of which model is played and which p-ups, caps, pots, bridge, tuners, strings are used and whether the pickguard is on or off. I have 4 LPs and they all sound slightly different. That said, they all sound like Les Pauls. Any one of them could be made to sound pretty much like any of the others. After settling on a Les Paul for basic tone the choice of amp then becomes far more important and will alter the sound to a far greater degree than whether the OP buys a Studio or an R9 IMHO. And, Stating-The-Bloody-Obvious yet again, the player's taste, touch and technique is by far the most important factor of the whole process. Listen to Peter Green and compare with Gary Moore playing the same guitar if you don't believe me. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think we're all getting slightly distracted here. That, unless I completely misunderstand guitarests posts, is what he is saying each time. He knows there are variations from guitar to guitar and p-up to p-up but those variations are subtle relative to the choice of guitar used in the first place; ie, a Strat, Tele or LP. Sure, we individual players can detect the nuances of one guitar over another but, as far as the listening public are concerned, the guitar will sound like a Les Paul regardless of which model is played and which p-ups, caps, pots, bridge, tuners, strings are used and whether the pickguard is on or off. I have 4 LPs and they all sound slightly different. That said, they all sound like Les Pauls. Any one of them could be made to sound pretty much like any of the others. After settling on a Les Paul for basic tone the choice of amp then becomes far more important and will alter the sound to a far greater degree than whether the OP buys a Studio or an R9 IMHO. And, Stating-The-Bloody-Obvious yet again, the player's taste, touch and technique is by far the most important factor of the whole process. Listen to Peter Green and compare with Gary Moore playing the same guitar if you don't believe me. P. How ridiculous! I have seldom read such well put logic. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have 4 LPs and they all sound slightly different. That said, they all sound like Les Pauls. Any one of them could be made to sound pretty much like any of the others. Excellent. Now, not only can I feel like my LP Studio is no less an LP, but I can be content that since I have a genuine LP, I can be free to spend my money on other instruments that make up the wonderful world of guitars. I've never understood why people have to own ten different LPs, unless it's purely for the sake of being a collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have two Les Pauls Studios. One is an all maple Raw Power with Classic 57 pickups and the other is a 24 fret chambered double cutaway with my own pickups in it. They couldn't sound more different. There is no way to get the clean neck pickup sound that a Les Paul Standard has out of either one of these guitars. Close, yes, but not the same. Next to those two guitar is an all mahogany SG special with 490's in it and it too is a very different sounding guitar. The Peter Green guitar is a perfect example of a guitar that was defective. The neck pickup is in backwards and because of that it's magnetic phasing is wrong and sounds like no other Les Paul when both pickups are used at the same time. Peter green frequently used this setting while Gary Moore rarely used both pickups at the same time. Also, Gary Moore typically used considerably more gain and volume to get sustain that Peter Green never did. Gain is a funny thing. As you add more and more of it the subtle nuances of the guitars actual tone such as what woods it's made of, what pickups it has and weather it has ceramic tone caps or bumblebees start to become irrelevant. Once you pass a point with gain, fuzz and distortion the tone becomes more about the amp and pedals than the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have three LP's and all are vastly different..... But all are from different era's When it comes to guitar purchases, I only listen to myself, since I'm the one that will be playing, staring at, or sniffing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Dadburnit! Now I gotta go out and buy 10 LPs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 ...the player's taste, touch and technique is by far the most important factor of the whole process. Listen to Peter Green and compare with Gary Moore playing the same guitar if you don't believe me. ...The Peter Green guitar is a perfect example of a guitar that was defective. The neck pickup is in backwards and because of that it's magnetic phasing is wrong and sounds like no other Les Paul when both pickups are used at the same time. Peter green frequently used this setting while Gary Moore rarely used both pickups at the same time. Also, Gary Moore typically used considerably more gain and volume to get sustain that Peter Green never did. Gain is a funny thing. As you add more and more of it the subtle nuances of the guitars actual tone such as what woods it's made of, what pickups it has and weather it has ceramic cap or bumblebees start to become irrelevant. Once you pass a point with gain, fuzz and distortion the tone becomes more about the amp and pedals than the guitar. We are saying the same thing. That was precisely why I mentioned the PG / GM guitar. It is exactly the same instrument but each player managed to produce their own - and very different - individual tone-signature from that self-same guitar. Each player finds his own, unique, sound by way of the extras he chooses to use (or not, as the case may be). If you gave PG my LP (with the neck magnet flip) back in the day he would have sounded exactly like PG. Same story with GM. Is anyone seriously suggesting they can tell on which tracks GM was using the ex-PG '59 as opposed to any of his other '59s or even any of his recent LPs? I think not. He always sounds exactly like Gary Moore. Taste (which includes the use of pedals, overdrive and the like), touch and technique. Going off on a couple of slight tangents (and only to be a Right Pedantic Pain-in-the-Arse, you understand...lol!)... Apparently the flipped-magnet was a happy accident. Story goes Green was carrying out a repair to his p-up and didn't know the orientation of the magnet would make any difference. The reversal of the actual p-up in the 'ring makes no noticeable difference to the sound produced. IMO Peter Green uses the inherent sustain of that LP considerably more, not considerably less, than did GM. Moore used, as you say, volume and gain to achieve his 'sustain' but this is not the same thing as using the nature of the guitar itself for sustain. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have never seen such a bunch of cork sniffers in my life. Yall take this fricking guitar way too serious, then attack me because I have the ability to have my own thoughts. If it was up to 90% of you it would be like Lemming jumping off a cliff. I have had customs, and studios and the thing everyone is so upset about is that I do not fit into the Gibson Model that everyone has in their mind. If you really want to truth the only reason I have my LP is because of the sustain, if I want to tone that can be had in almost any guitar. And yes Fred even Epiphone Lp's are quite impressive now. What kills me is many of you dont even play and your collectors, yeah some are quite impressive but most wait till some one says, OMG yes it is the best; then everyone else follows suit. Whats really funny is that there are Epi LP in this years line up like the Ultra 3 that would give even a Standard a run for the money. Especially when you consider its 1/3 of the cost and yes Fred it sounds like a LP. Just because there are those who believe a 6k guitar sounds better than a 1K guitar just because you paid more; well whats that saying about a fool and his money. Henry is making a killing off of ya. There are many different companies out there and when it comes down to it and comparison of apples to apples the Traditionals, Standards and Customs and all the other over priced guitars are in the rear of the pack. Many here have allot to learn and the tunnel vision is running amuck. OBTW there is nothing wrong with buying any guitar on-line if thats what I or anyone else wants to do. I'm sorry if there was such a variance on tone in LP's then that proves my point even more. Say what you will but a Standard, Traditional, Custom and all those re-released r-whatever versions are no better than a Studio except in bling. The tone has more to do with your body mass and amp with the actual guitar coming in a distant third. If you don't believe that then your not a musician but just a casual player who is confused. This fool, who was parted from just over £2k for a reissue could certainly hear the difference between it and 3 or 4 piece bodies of a cheaper equivalent. I can even hear the difference between 50s and 60s neck profiles. There is no doubt that there is some emporers new clothes in the marketing if any high end product but I could hear a difference and I preferred the high end model for tonal and constructional reasons, I could afford it and that's all I needed to know. Did I pay more than the intrinsic value? Probably. Could I get what I wanted for less? Not in my opinion. Did I pay for a COA and the cork sniffing status, yep, unavoidable, Gibson knows that adds value and therefore charge more. I also have the best TV, stereo, furniture house, food etc that I can afford. A fool who has been parted from his money and is happy with his purchase is less of a fool than the fool who didn't earn enough to have a choice or who bought cheap rather than saving. Of course, on the other hand if you can't hear or feel the difference you'd be mad to pay more. My world is all shades of grey, must be nice to live in a black and white world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 ...I can even hear the difference between 50s and 60s neck profiles.... I'm intrigued to hear that, Farns! When we eventually meet up we must put it to a 'Blind' test! Shall we invite Simon along too? That way we can have at least 4 "1960" profiles; one "1959" profile; one "1956" profile and whatever other LPs Simon chooses to bring along for the purposes of comparison... Hell; blindfolded? I'd bet right now I couldn't even pick out my own guitars from that lot! It'll be interesting to try it out, though. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 When it comes to guitar purchases, I only listen to myself, since I'm the one that will be playing, staring at, or sniffing it And the buyer's opinion is the only one which matters in the slightest. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm intrigued to hear that, Farns! When we eventually meet up we must put it to a 'Blind' test! Shall we invite Simon along too? That way we can have at least 4 "1960" profiles; one "1959" profile; one "1956" profile and whatever other LPs Simon chooses to bring along for the purposes of comparison... Hell; blindfolded? I'd bet right now I couldn't even pick out my own guitars from that lot! It'll be interesting to try it out, though. P. Interesting indeed. A friend had a 50s neck shaved to a 60s profile and it ruined the tone. I knew the guitar well and a before and after comparison was astounding. That was with P90s. But I could have told the difference unpluged, in a stand, with a single finger on the back of the neck. With a 50s profile the neck vibrated in a solid, assured kind of way but with the shaved neck it was more fuzzy and zingy. Through an amp this ammounted to a huge difference. I guess with 2 different guitars it may be a trickier comparison but we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Interesting indeed. A friend had a 50s neck shaved to a 60s profile and it ruined the tone. I knew the guitar well and a before and after comparison was astounding. That was with P90s. But I could have told the difference unpluged, in a stand, with a single finger on the back of the neck. With a 50s profile the neck vibrated in a solid, assured kind of way but with the shaved neck it was more fuzzy and zingy. Through an amp this ammounted to a huge difference. I guess with 2 different guitars it may be a trickier comparison but we'll see. I've heard of other shaved necks ruining a previously wonderful-sounding guitar. But it's not, IMO, simply down to the neck being thinner; My belief is it comes down to the actual lump of wood used for the neck and not solely how thick or thin it might be. I've played '50s necks which were dead and others which sang like a bird (I bought one which sang like a bird, FWIW). My R0 has the sweetest, most 'ringing' neck of any LP I've ever played. It enhances harmonic vibrations to an incredible extent. I could tell within a minute (literally) of picking it up it was 'different' from the other LPs I'd tried; whether '58, '59 or '60. Other '60s necked guitars I've played have sounded relatively weak, tone-wise, but that is true of any other year you care to mention. My '95 '1960 Classic' and Simon's (utterly gorgeous plain-top) G0, on the other hand, are two more of the good '60-style ones. I believe what you say about the shaved neck ruining the tone of your friends guitar but it doesn't follow that all '60s necks will, therefore, sound dead. That's not logic. It's like the old joke about a traveller who visits a different country and thinks all that country's sheep are black because the first sheep he happens to see is that colour. Some '60s necks are wonderful. Honestly! You simply must pop 'round one day! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I've heard of other shaved necks ruining a previously wonderful-sounding guitar. But it's not, IMO, simply down to the neck being thinner; My belief is it comes down to the actual lump of wood used for the neck and not solely how thick or thin it might be. I've played '50s necks which were dead and others which sang like a bird (I bought one which sang like a bird, FWIW). My R0 has the sweetest, most 'ringing' neck of any LP I've ever played. It enhances harmonic vibrations to an incredible extent. I could tell within a minute (literally) of picking it up it was 'different' from the other LPs I'd tried; whether '58, '59 or '60. Other '60s necked guitars I've played have sounded relatively weak, tone-wise, but that is true of any other year you care to mention. My '95 '1960 Classic' and Simon's (utterly gorgeous plain-top) G0, on the other hand, are two more of the good '60-style ones. I believe what you say about the shaved neck ruining the tone of your friends guitar but it doesn't follow that all '60s necks will, therefore, sound dead. That's not logic. It's like the old joke about a traveller who visits a different country and thinks all that country's sheep are black because the first sheep he happens to see is that colour. Some '60s necks are wonderful. Honestly! You simply must pop 'round one day! P. I'm there. Just say the word. BTW, I noticed from one of your recent posts that you are a pro photographer. We may even be able to do some business together too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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