What is Wrong, with Local/Area "Live Music," these days?!

[Morkolo]

i don't know anyone that would go to karaoke (i'm assuming that's what you meant) but i do know some people that still go to local live music.

 

Have enough to drink and anyone will go to karaoke! [lol]

[milod]

I may be wrong, but to an extent I think the Karaoke crowd is largely an update on the piano bar - except with more audience participation and tablefulls of folks as opposed to folks sitting around the piano player in a saloon.

 

Age of "crowd" and current economic conditions may play a role in that.

 

It's an interesting time in terms of live music culture. I guess in ways I keep comparing it to the loss of so many country dance halls after WWII to somewhere in the late 1960s. I played places that don't even exist physically nowadays and a couple that have been condemned as unsafe structures.

 

So... I dunno. I guess rather than blaming one thing, I think there are a host of factors mitigating against live music. One might even be an expectation of higher quality. Some of the stuff in the old days was pretty darned high-end but ... not the expectation everywhere.

 

m

[charlie brown]

Great topic..

 

CB I missed your generation by a few short years, but was gigging in the late 70's. I don't know about the band scene in general I can only speak about my experiences. While I am officially in between bands I am actively working with a few people on a solo project of my own. Its not really a solo project any more but a collective project. Now there are two bands who do want me but the distance is a consideration one being in Ohio and the other being 60 miles away.

 

Some of my issues with the local scene are my issues alone. I have grown older so I put up with less BS and drama. Bands are like relationships and except for a few rare time periods bands I have been in were like soap operas. I used to deal with that and continue driving on, yet now I refuse to deal with the drama. I also put forth a effort unlike many in this area, if I have homework to learn tunes I do exactly that. I have found many in this area only like playing certain tunes and these are the same songs they have been playing for years. They refuse to update or learn how to properly play songs. Also there is a click in this area, if your not part of the click your a outsider and deemed not worthy of being in a band. I have never operated within a click and refuse to do so even today, so its always the same people in the same bands. Finally in this area since Hurricane Katrina many places we used to be able to play at were destroyed and have not returned. The remaining bars pay about 350 for a unknown band my last band started getting known but having to drive to almost Alabama to play a gig and get home at 630am got old real quick. I was with the band a year and many things finally just got to me and I finished playing all the gigs on the books and left the band.

 

I believe the biggest problem in my area is the laxidaisy attitude most have towards not only being in a band to the clubs who refuse to pay enough cash to at least cover expenses.

 

Are you sure you don't live around here, Guitarest??! Everything you just said, is EXACTLY what's going on, around here. Differences in attitudes, willingness (or not) to put up with un-needed drama, complacent "musicians," unwilling to work hard enough, to dare to break out of their own, self-imposed, musical ruts, etc. Add to that, precious few musicians, in the first place...at least, that truly want to play in a band, and not just sit a home and "wank"...you've pretty well described this area, as it's been, in the last 30 years. I wasn't here, for most of those 30 years, but they've been described to me, as being "just like it is, today," around here, musically. So...??? I guess the main thing I've noticed, besides what you've described, is a real lack in "feeling" both for the people one plays with, and for the music itself. We felt everything, when I was playing, as a "kid." And, that meant we felt all that, in the music, as well. I see a lot of wonderful "mechanics/technique," we could barely dream of, back then (save our few "guitar heroes," maybe?), but (here at least) there's almost no real feeling...just lot's of "wanking about," (AKA "Look At Me, Aren't I Awesome?!"), which gets really boring, really quickly. Aside from moving, leaving...I don't know what to do, anymore! I can't leave, for various reasons, not the least of which is financial. But, there are many other aspects, of my life here, that I don't want to change, anyway. So...???

 

I guess, that's why I started this topic...not for specific answers, as they will vary, depending on the people, and location. Just to find out how many other's were battling the same kinds of "problems/situations," and what, if anything they're doing about it? Band wise, I'm not very enouraged, right now. :unsure:

 

So...Thanks, to ALL, who have participated, will participate, and your suggestions, and shared responses.

 

Cheers,

CB

[Silenced Fred]

Are you sure you don't live around here, Guitarest??! Everything you just said, is EXACTLY what's going on, around here. Differences in attitudes, willingness (or not) to put up with un-needed drama, complacent "musicians," unwilling to work hard enough, to dare to break out of their own, self-imposed, musical ruts, etc. Add to that, precious few musicians, in the first place...at least, that truly want to play in a band, and not just sit a home and "wank"...you've pretty well described this area, as it's been, in the last 30 years. I wasn't here, for most of those 30 years, but they've been described to me, as being "just like it is, today," around here, musically. So...??? I guess the main thing I've noticed, besides what you've described, is a real lack in "feeling" both for the people one plays with, and for the music itself. We felt everything, when I was playing, as a "kid." And, that meant we felt all that, in the music, as well. I see a lot of wonderful "mechanics/technique," we could barely dream of, back then (save our few "guitar heroes," maybe?), but (here at least) there's almost no real feeling...just lot's of "wanking about," (AKA "Look At Me, Aren't I Awesome?!"), which gets really boring, really quickly. Aside from moving, leaving...I don't know what to do, anymore! I can't leave, for various reasons, not the least of which is financial. But, there are many other aspects, of my life here, that I don't want to change, anyway. So...???

 

I guess, that's why I started this topic...not for specific answers, as they will vary, depending on the people, and location. Just to find out how many other's were battling the same kinds of "problems/situations," and what, if anything they're doing about it? Band wise, I'm not very enouraged, right now. :unsure:

 

So...Thanks, to ALL, who have participated, will participate, and your suggestions, and shared responses.

 

Cheers,

CB

 

word on all accounts.

 

When I first wanted to start a band, one of my best friends who was a drummer wasn't sure if he wanted to. He was pretty big into the school's jazz band at the time. Over time, and after a whole bunch of jam sessions, I guess we grooved pretty well and I convinced him to at least keep jamming with me. Not sure where you're located, but its been almost impossible to find bass players either in the suburbs of Chicago or out in Colorado, in a large area filled with 2 good sized college towns. I think that ties into the second part, the technical ability of players nowadays is outstanding. As much as I hate to go to a Guitar Center or Sam Ash on a weekend if I need strings or something, I'm in awe at the ability of some of these 14 year old kids in there. However, as has always been a major gripe of mine, I don't care how good you are, if you can't play with others or work with songs, you might be the best player in the world, it isn't worth ****. My one friend, one that I grew up with and we started playing guitar together, got one within a week of each other, I went more towards writing songs, he would practice for hours and hours a day and is an amazing technical player. The few times I have played with him, he can't do anything but solo over everything. He has since quit playing.

 

I think you summed it up greatly about feeling the music, but I will save my comments because it always starts up arguments among some members here

 

Me? I guess to answer the part of your questions asking what others are doing, my main focus has been put into my own songs, not necessarily with a band. Since I moved to Colorado, I played with three bands, none of them really worked out. two of the three was just a lack of dedication and the other one was just the people turned out to be assholes. So since that was the case, I focused on my own music, wrote like 5 new songs, a whole bunch of ideas for band songs when I go back to Illinois and hopefully that can go somewhere.

[milod]

I think "Fred" in one sense kinda hit on what some others have been saying - but from a very personal and "into it as a young guy" perspective.

 

From an old guy's perspective I think we've two "splintering" factors too, hinted to by the comment about relationships and solo acts and stuff.

 

1. Music itself is increasingly splintered and it's hard to get people who are literally intellectually and emotionally capable of playing "with" others rather than "to" them if it's not entirely the groove they've placed themselves into due to their time and place. I'd say that's folks into their 40s, btw, not just the teens and college-age folks.

 

I think it would be easy for an old guy to say, "You kids just haven't worked hard at being professional," but I think that would be wrong in the sense that there's less reason to try to be more versatile - and less exposure in ways to playing in different ways. There are exceptions, obviously, but...

 

2. Secondly I think the TV thing is at least partly correct, but when I was a kid playing out, there were guys of all ages from teen bands to 20s-age bands to 30s-age bands, etc.

 

Nowadays the teens have far more stuff to do than when I was a kid and there were "teen centers" and stuff 'cuz everybody said, "There's nothing for the kids to do." It's been a long time since this old newspaper guy has heard that one excluding perhaps comments from those in the inner city. And once somebody's a parent, and both parents are working, it seems far more difficult for musicians of both sexes to play out at age 20s and 30s.

 

That also means more difficulty for folks in those age groups to go out at night to a live music venue and spend a cupla bucks. The "finally it's a night at home" factor enters.

 

I don't think I'm making excuses for the younger folks, either. It's kinda a different world overall. I've said before that I wish I had the Internet to watch folks and copy technique. But... was lacking that option something that made me want to be able to play with folks playing a bunch of different styles if it meant even a couple of bucks? I really dunno.

 

m

[charlie brown]

More good points...

 

"Time" can be a real problem, for a lot of folks, working 1 very demanding, or 2+ part-time jobs!

Add family responsibilities, and there's precious little time, for making music, much less playing

out. Still, the prevailing sentiment, seems to be one of complacent stagnation, rather than

any real progress. Maybe lack of available energy, after all that, as well?

 

Frankly, I think I may be answering my own (topic) question, in that because of the "same old, same old,"

factor...audience's get complacent, as well...and, pretty soon, stop coming out, to hear the "same old,

same old!" So, in a sense, it's a vicious cycle, of complacent boredom. Possibly...

 

Fred mentioned kids being able to do amazing technique, but not (so often) having the ability to play

with others. Very True! I see that, even here, all the time. We (my band & I) are without a drummer,

right now. We auditioned one, recently...a young fellow (early 20's), that...on the phone, sounded promising.

The actuall audition, was anything but! He had amazing "fills," and off-beats, lots of fancy stuff,

but could NOT find a steady beat, much less keep it! Yet, "he" thought and told us so, repeatedly,

that he was a "awesome drummer!" The only think we could figure out, was that he's never played with

other's, or the folks he'd played with, were even worse, so they thought he was "great!?" It was another

eye opening experience, in "the hubris, of (some) youth," for me.

 

CB

[milod]

CB...

 

Yup... but I dunno. One drummer I played country with in the early-mid '70s was absolutely rock solid - until he'd fall backward off the stool 'cuz he'd had too much to drink. He was probably 15 years or so older than I was, but it sure made me wanna stick to OJ until closing time. Every cupla months we'd have to finish the last set without a drummer... Sure made me think more about how to play rhythm guitar, though.

 

I guess I figure each generation has its challenges. The younger guys have a lot more opportunity for technique, but I think less emphasis on playing together with feel. I even see that, I think, in small town high school "pep bands" nowadays compared to when I was a kid.

 

Dunno why, though, unless it's the individual emphasis on developing technical excellence to a higher standard than we aspired to in instrumental music at that age - but without the same goal in ensemble performance. I think I actually hear better ensemble work from high school and college choral groups where there seems less emphasis on individual technique. Dunno...

 

Since that's even at "school brass band" level as well as "non-school rock band" level... I begin to wonder what underlying factors might be involved.

 

m

[bonzoboy]

Thankfully here in Newfoundland and Labrador the arts and especially music are heavily funded by our government.Music has been an absolutely huge part of our heritage and you'd be hard pressed to find a Newfoundland home without a musical instrument.

 

The music scene is quite alive and well and there are dozens of indie and alternative rock bands.Sadly Irish and Newfoundland music gets the biggest attention as that's the type of music we're mostly identified with.Most and alternative bands have to leave the island to get good work and even our biggest musical export-Great Big Sea-has to tour the U.S. and Europe endlessly to promote their music.

 

Our main downtown nightclub strip George St. has more bars per capita than any other city in North America and there are many little clubs that cater to niche music from jazz to Irish to thrash metal to hip hop etc. We have something for everyone but it's still hard to make a living soley through music.

[Rocky4]

i don't know anyone that would go to karaoke (i'm assuming that's what you meant) but i do know some people that still go to local live music.

 

I live in central Illinois and karaoke is rampant. If you read the nightlife guide in the paper, Karaoke and DJs far outweigh live bands. I would imagine it's a money issue.

[FirstMeasure]

I really don't think Kareoke takes anything away from live music audiences. Probably screwed up open mic nights and piano bars, but not live music. People who sing Kareoke are entertaining themselves, no one goes to a Kareoke bar to watch other people suck. And typically, kareoke bars are too small for a full band.

 

DJ's and Dance Music is our competition, that's the crowd that's looking to be entertained. And like it or not, the 25-35 crowd like Dance Music They like live rock and roll too, but if the band sucks they're going to the DJ's place 'cause a DJ can't have an off night.

[saturn]

In my area, there is a definite "karaoke" crowd. They know what bars have it and on what night. To them it seems to be more about participating, or being part of a group. Most of them are familiar with each other from all being at the same places week after week. It's kinda funny because most have their "regular" songs they always sing.

[Versatile]

This is one of the most important threads alive today

 

Excellent pearls of wisdom just keep flowing....love it to bits....

 

Karaoke is not to be sneezed at....originating I believe in Japan

 

I know a few men and women who have become performing singers after taking the initial 'dare'

 

Karaoke, more than any other thing, provides an opportunity in a relaxed social situation to 'have a go'

 

And experience the buzz of performance....

 

All other comments re live bands etc are apposite and reflect society as it is today

 

Just like the Jazz and Dance Band eras....things moved on as tastes changed

 

In my experience most local live music is virtually 'free' and not a viable way to make a living

 

The reality is it can be a hobby with very high standards of musicianship

 

Always a privilege to play music.......

 

V

 

[Notes_Norton]

Karaoke seems to have passed its peak here years ago. There is still some around, but only a fraction of what it was in it's heyday.

 

There have always been professional bands and non-professional bands. I don't think that's a factor. The first bands I was a member of were pretty lame by today's standards, but then the standards were lower back then.

 

DJs do offer some competition, but as far as the club scene has gone around here, there are fewer DJ bars alive than there were a decade ago. But still, the young generation seems to prefer pre-recorded music to live music. I think that's sad, but then I'm not in their shoes.

 

And Milod, I do remember the teen centers. I played in Boca Raton's Teen Town the one Jaco Pastorius named his song after. In fact, I even played with the bass player who taught Jaco how to play the bass. He was amazed at how quickly Jaco outgrew him.

 

And for the young people, music doesn't define the generation like it did for us. Back then, everybody listened to the same radio station, black, white, city people, country people, in this area it was the Miami Florida AM station. At night we could get a New York or other long distance stations if the weather was right.

 

Now we have the alternative, hip-hop, country, and dozens of other formats all catering to the young. The house is divided. I think this all started with the first disco generation.

 

For adults, I still think it's mostly TV though. And I really don't know what to do about that. I'd love to start a "Just say 'no' to TV" campaign, but it would be a waste of time and money.

 

The 'adult' bars (40 and up) that used to hire 6 nights of entertainment have gone down to weekends and most of the yacht clubs, country clubs and 'animal clubs' that used to do Friday AND Saturday have gone down to Friday OR Saturday. Condominiums and other retirement communities have fewer parties per year too.

 

I'm glad I grew up during the intense live music years, and still have enough work to keep the roof over my head. I feel sorry for the young musicians who won't get the chance to do what I did as a youth. Travel the country doing 6 night a week lounges, playing for people my own age, and always with a number of opposite members to share tender moments with.

 

But as they say; the only thing constant is change.

 

Notes

[Guest rogerb]

I think part of the problem is the amount of money club owners and venue managers are willing to pay. Seems everything has gone up except musician's pay. Around here they still want to pay the same amount that I was earning over 30 years ago. Go figure.

[stein]

This has been a great thread, and has certainly opened my eyes to a lot of things that even if I had known, had not paid attention to.

 

As an audience member, I have to say it is not the same for me. Being a smoker has a lot to do with it. Not being able to sit myself down and enjoy a band changes the whole ritual for me. And, not only that, but even if I was to suffer that inconvenience, I am not as attracted to wanting to see weekend warriors do their thing nearly as much as people that did it all the time.

 

The atmosphere is different. Where once there was a group of people having conversations while listening and watching music in a space, now there are smoking sections removed from the room (and building). And also, where I always felt compelled to spend money at a place in support of the establishment and bands however I could (buying drinks for others and food), I don't feel the same importance or desire to in a place because I don't see the establishment is really paying the bands much, and those actually playing in the bands have jobs that are probably paying them as much as I make.

 

As a whole, I can't blame it all on the smoking issue, as I hope the next generation doesn't smoke like me or a lot of us. But, reading the comments here, I get the impression that the live music scene that I was used to and enjoyed is more of a bygone era than I thought. And it wasn't that long ago either.

 

It has been a depressing journey this thread. But I have also learned of other era's before my time, now also gone. I wonder what it will be replaced with, as it seems "my" era replaced something else before. I kinda have hope it will, but I can't see it (yet?).

[Silenced Fred]

Milod, you hit the nail on the head.

 

The biggest thing I found, kind of relating back to my lack of bass player comments, everyone wants to be the star, but nobody wants to be successful. I don't like singing, hell, I hate it. However, I found I can't work with lead singers (well, mainly their attitudes), but I realized that I needed to work on it to be able to create music. I realized I won't be a lead guitarist if I'm singing, so I scaled back to rhythm for the most part. Its all about sacrifices and doing what's best for the song, not for you. These indulgent 5 minute solos that people like to take? To me, has very little purpose.

 

I've received it here, on the sense of people saying I need to be more professional, but I'm just trying to reach markets and be as versatile as I can. Songs that I can perform solo and with a band, acoustic, electric and trying to write songs that I enjoy but also can get people into the music covering the "pop" aspect of it. I think its very hard for someone to tell someone else they need to be more professional unless they are there. My music is one of the few things that I take deathly serious.

 

I agree on your second point, however, I would have to say for the most part, there still isn't a lot for teens to do. See a movie, hang out with friends, or go out to parties. In my town, there's a good number of parties on any thursday-sunday night, most of them get busted however, but that's a whole other topic for discussion

 

Like I might have said before, I think the hardest part is just getting people to sacrifice their time, or at least that's how they look at it. For the most part, shows that have about 5-7 bands play in a night with a 7-10 dollar cover charge, most people that show up, will stay for the band their friends are in then as soon as they are done, they will leave. show up for a 20-30 minute set maybe say hi or bye and then head out. And during most of these shows, people are on their phones the whole time. There is also a giant reluctance to get involved with the music, at least what I've seen. People are too "embarrassed" or something to sing along, move, dance, whatever.

 

Rocky- on the karaoke comment, I was talking to my friend last night, and when I get back to Illinois, she wants to go to a hookah lounge that also regularly has karaoke. What's really odd, is that she said for the most part, they have regulars that go up and sing, and she said a bunch of people who sit there and don't do anything. No cover charge other than the price of hookah, so I don't think that karaoke has affected live music much, and its only on weeknights. But that's just me

[stein]

FREZ:

 

You are the only "young" guy I read about here who is posting efforts and experiences that I can try and understand and get an idea of what it is like to play music in what might be the next "scene".

 

As for finding players in a situation as you describe, I would'nt even know where to start. Most "players" I know (that aren't trying to be THE star or THE man) who just want to play with others and simply PLAY music want to be out playing as soon as possible. The motivation isn't really to support a guy and his music, but to be part of a band that is playing. Supporting another's music is more of a way to get there, but "where" is the question. I think that means coming from an angle of a scene, or a club circuit they can see and want to play.

 

Without it, it just seems that it would be more of asking for a guy to learn how to play your tunes (or the band tunes) just for the pleasure of doing it. Rehearsal for rehearsal's sake. If it is about the instant gratification, why stick around? Why put time and effort if it isn't your own music?

 

I remember when I was young and starting out, in L.A. there was no particular "scene" I could identify with, but just the kind of music I wanted to play. So, trying to join a band where I could play and be a part of something, it reached a point I was even trying out for a Disco band just to be able to play with who I wanted to.

 

Lucky for me, when I moved to Portland, there was a Blues scene, and I happen to love Blues. But, the other part of THAT is that the thing about Blues, is most all tunes follow on of many structures or rhythms, which cuts down rehearsal to sometimes not needing any at all.

[Silenced Fred]

Stein, I hope that's a good thing

 

I played in cover bands throughout high school, and hated it. The songs lost meaning to me. I started writing my own stuff mainly to just work things out that were going on in my life, and it allowed/allows me to better express myself I feel. My main focus now is really just trying to get stuff done. My friends who are in a death metal band just got signed, so that's kind of a big motivation for me. They started out small, and while that genre is a lot more popular in my area, I just need to play more and get stuff done, with proper recording happening early next year.

 

The great part about nowadays is having the internet at my disposal, and to date, I have almost 2,000 plays on my songs from the various hosting sites I use, considering my limited exposure in addition to rougher quality, I think that's a decent start.

 

Do I think my music is going to go anywhere? I hope so.

[milod]

Stein...

 

I think the effect of non-smoking ordinances has been far underplayed by a politically correct sort of media. Depending on the honest percentage of adults who smoke, I think you'll find that the overall revenues of music venues has dropped at minimum by that percentage.

 

Another factor. Restaurants like the end of smoking because they could move in more people in a given amount of time since smokers tended to sit and talk over coffee or whatever. Bars, on the other hand, need to keep people in their seats sitting and talking so they can sell more booze.

 

That factor was really brought to me backwards by a casino operator who noted he didn't want to have bands in his place because then people watched the band instead of playing games. OTOH, he needed ways to differentiate his place from others - and did that through other modes.

 

When it comes to smoking, however, both saloons with music and casinos have what they needed in a smoker who tended to sit and hang around with fiends. That crowd has pretty much abandoned music venues and casino operations. Even if the percentage of current smokers is less than when the axe hit bars, once the change was made and losses taken - there was little or no way to recover.

 

m

[charlie brown]

I loved the comment, mentioning not being particularly interested in going out to see

"Weekend Warriors," do their thing, as opposed to established acts, that do music,

as a constant. Well I'm in a "weekend warriors" group. That's ALL there is

out here. There are no "musicians," here, that are part of established/professional

bands. All those, would be in Wichita (few), Kansas City, or OKC. "Weekend Warriors,"

are the bread and butter of most "Live" music, IMHO. The established, or even Famous

bands, have a built-in audience/fan base. They also charge way beyond what any bar or

club is going to pay, these days. Back in the '60's, bands were just "bands!" Local,

or famous. The local bands, played covers (mostly), of the established, or famous bands.

There were local/regional "Hit" bands, as well. "The Blue Things," "The Red Dogs," "The

Flippers," "King Midas, and the Mufflers," "Spider & The Crabs," "(Mike)Finnigan & Wood,"

etc. They were excellent, local/regional bands, that what might be called 2nd level,

between local/area talent, and the "Big Boys" (actual Rock Stars). Mike Finnigan (keyboards)

went on to play with almost everyone, including Hendrix! We have nothing like that, around

here, nowadays! So, it's right, that the whole "scene" has changed (dramatically, IMHO)!

Music (too often) is "background," for other activities...even "Live" music. The strange

and somewhat ironic thing is, "bar bands" around here, get paid much better, than equivalent

bands, in the cities. Those "bar bands" are ALL "weekend warriors!" There's no choice, for

the bars, or the musicians. The "better" 2nd tier, or intermediate bands, of the '60's just

don't exist, around here, anyway.

 

As to Karaoke? I cannot, and would not be hypocritical, and "dis" Karaoke. I used Karaoke, in

the past, to keep my vocal "chops" (what little I have) up. I met people in those places, that

were excellent singers, by anyone's standards. There were, of course, the "hacks," as well...

but, it was all in good fun. And, at least, I was doing something music related, at the time,

when I had precious little else, to rely on...due to work commitments, etc. Those folks were

not the type, to go to "Rock" venues, all that often. Some...but, not the majority.

 

At this point, I don't know how, or What to do, about the "local/area" music scene? We may just

be in a "slump" time, and it may evolve, later? Then again, it may (almost) disappear, entirely?

Not sure...but, it sure feels like it's in serious decline/trouble, for most, if not all, the reasons

that have been issued, by everyone, in this thread

 

What CAN we do, if anything, to change/revitalize it? It may take another "cultural change," huh?

The '60's was a phenomenon, unlike we've ever had, for music and art, in my lifetime. That may, or

may not, ever happen, again. Who knows?

 

CB

[stein]

MILOD:

 

I think it shows a much bigger picture (that you pointed out in another post) about the whole regulation thing.

 

The way I recall it, NONE of the owners at the time, either restaurants or bars, were in support of the bans when they happened. What it all shows is that those making the rules are not the same ones involved in the game.

 

There is much more regulation involved toward the owners of the establishments beyond the smoking issue. Some of it is part of a trend I believe I see of people wanting to make villains of each other, and part of it is people feeling justified in thinking they deserve a piece of a pie they aren't willing to earn, or try and earn by taking it from others.

 

Which leads me to be enjoying a cig and a cup of coffee with you, instead of at a table at a different place, with a different guy (or gal...if that was the case). And you sir, kinda fall short...lol..

 

Not because I don't like you or you have less to offer, but the miracle of the internet does not give me your voice, your smile, your frown, or lets me see you in the eye. So, I don't FEEL your life or your success or failure, and thus have less to care about or concern myself with.

 

So, we TYPE about the effects of this and that, what you see and what I see. And news travels faster. More info is available to us, and easier.

 

The irony is that, I have effectively been regulated right out of my former seat. I am not blameless of corse, but the thing is, it is the lack of caring and kindness that causes us to want to regulate one another, and put the blame on one another. And, it is a lot easier to do that over the net than to do it looking people in the eye.

[stein]

CB:

 

WEEKEND WARRIOR is really a broad term. It varies from where I have seen a club give up the "quality" music in favor of hiring a band of guys that clearly were playing for free, and are unrehearsed and doing it for the thrill of saying "I played live".

 

Then, there are those that used to do it but have had to take day jobs to supplement. There are many that actually have a lot of time and experience and are quite good, that you couldn't tell by their playing if they had real jobs or not.

 

But, yea, the point is that on the whole, being able to play full time makes a guy better at it than part time.

 

And, of corse, while I would still want to support any act which is by the wallet to pay my fair share, the obligation feels less when the bar ain't paying the band, and the band doesn't need my dough to make a living.

[This_Dying_Soul]

For me, as I see it here in Toronto, there are a few reasons why the live music/rock scene is not so healthy:

 

1) People are lazy - its tough to get people to commit to come to a show...and even if they commit, 1/3 doesn't show up...

 

2) There are 8,000,000 places to play and 11,000,000 bands to play in them....TOO MUCH CHOICE.

 

3) Drinks are expensive at the bar...its cheaper to drink at home and watch shows on YouTube. :)

 

4) Not everyone can play weekend shows...and nobody likes weekday shows if its not a huge act...

 

5) Only cover bands get paid even remotely well...everywhere else, you get what you get from the door and have to share with the other bands...

 

I have a few buddies in bands around here and I make an effort to see them as often as I can. If I say i'm going to go, i show up...and i can see how happy they are when I do. I haven't played in a band for a few years but it was the same thing 4-5 years ago in Toronto...

 

*le sniff*

 

 

It's the same here in Moncton, New Brunswick. Since the late 90's there have been barely any places for a band to go. My experience when I was in a band was that most bars here would get you to play for the door. So your pay entirely depended on your turnout and there was no risk on their part. Sometimes you'd get a bar willing to put money against the door; and luckly for us the door drew more money because they weren't offering much - $50 to $100.

 

There is also the level of support for live music in the local scene - As you put it, most bands struggle to get people to their shows and rely on friends to show up. Occasionally you get a band that's built quite a following who can gig regularly and get paid decently by the bar owners - or play the door and still make a decent amount.

 

There's also the number of venues to play here...maybe a few dozen bars book live bands and even then most don't do it consistantly and there are at least a few hundred bands currently active here. Those groups also have to compete with bands from out of town at some venues.

 

Right now we have one bar that regularly books live bands who play oringal music and luckly for anyone who can get a gig there, the crowd actually comes looking for live music and many of them go even if they don't know the band that's playing. The people going to this bar actually make a point when someone new plays there to go see what they're all about. This is also the place that normally books signed, touring bands that aren't ready for the city's larger venues yet. Since one of the owners had once been signed to BMG for a short time and he'd managed to make a few connections occasionally he's able to draw some acts that most other bars can't get and then gets a local group to open for them.

 

There are a couple of other bars that book cover bands, and then there are a few bars that won't even look at a band until they become very popular and can guarantee to draw a larger crowd than the bar normally sees. And even then, they will try to book you on their slowest night of the week...usually Sunday, Monday or Tuesday depending on the venue. You have to draw really impressive crowds to get these places to book you on Friday or Saturday.

 

My band found it easier to get gigs by travelling out of town or even out of province; but while they may have paid us better, the travel costs ate into a lot of our profit.

[charlie brown]

CB:

 

WEEKEND WARRIOR is really a broad term. It varies from where I have seen a club give up the "quality" music in favor of hiring a band of guys that clearly were playing for free, and are unrehearsed and doing it for the thrill of saying "I played live".

 

Then, there are those that used to do it but have had to take day jobs to supplement. There are many that actually have a lot of time and experience and are quite good, that you couldn't tell by their playing if they had real jobs or not.

 

But, yea, the point is that on the whole, being able to play full time makes a guy better at it than part time.

 

And, of corse, while I would still want to support any act which is by the wallet to pay my fair share, the obligation feels less when the bar ain't paying the band, and the band doesn't need my dough to make a living.

 

Couldn't agree more! It's a large part of my own "frustration(s)," with the folks that I DO have

the opportunity to play with. They either have no time, or no inclination, to take it to a higher

level. Some of that, is due to the lack of viable resources, both in Venues to play in, and other

like minded (more dedicated) musicians. So...???

 

CB

[milod]

I guess one of my concerns here is the quest to be "better."

 

I think too many of us think in terms of improving our personal chops and upgrading our personal equipment - but the "whole" of a band is of lesser concern, especially among guys just doing a startup sorta band.

 

Frankly it's my observation that excellent presentation of third rate "chops" does far better than poor presentation of excellent skills.

 

And that's true regardless of style or age of band members.

 

OTOH, is that weakness due to the other factors mentioned here earlier. I dunno. I think having greater experience makes most of our third or fourth bands better than our first. And I also think expectations of a quality overall "sound" is greater than it used to be.

 

m