The downside of vintage guitars......

[EuroAussie]

I have to admit Im with Wily here, that guitar didnt really do much for me. It just sounded very muddy with little note seperation. I normally find 000's and OM's very balanced, even for Martin, but that one was just splashing bass overtones to the detriment of the overall tone.

 

I much prefer the balance and note seperation of my 00-15, which Im guessing is about a tenth of the price.

 

On the other hand the two brazilian 50's D-28's I recently played in Oz were hugely impressive, balanced, powerful, signature Martin tone but also responsive and articulate.

[zombywoof]

And now were talking vintage, have a go with this oldie. There you hear what just can't be bought new.

 

 

Now hold on a minute there Hoss. If I recall not too long ago you told us that you had seen the light and that non-scallop braced guitars just don't do it for you. Seems to me that 1950 Martin does not have scalloped top bracing (Martin went to non-scallop braces at the end of 1944).

[zombywoof]

I like those vintage cases too.....they can sell for as much as the guitars sometimes......lol....Here's what my friend does.....he will gladly pay 500 bucks for a period correct vintage case, THEN put his vintage guitar in a new case, so he can "save" the old case for trade or sale later.

 

I am guilty of that one as well although I don't put them away for re-sale but rather because, as someone has pointed out, the newer cases just provide better protection.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

they have a 41 G too =D

 

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[BluesKing777]

I'll take both of those guitars as well!

 

 

I think the mic was a touch close for the little Martin - perhaps why it's bass was a bit full....

 

 

Are there any other nice video reviews from some other good shops - as good as the MV ones are, I am getting a bit tired of Tony's same test tunes! (And there is fairly well no chance of me signing for the Acoustic Letter now!)

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[onewilyfool]

Okay, OWF – don't think I would either as the body size isn't my fav.

 

Still in the cans I heard it as a brilliant example of that vintage extra thing.

 

Aside from investment, can you explain your 'never' – just for a little ping-pong.

 

Hey, in fact, I imagined it could be in your vein more than mine.

 

Talkin' guitar and shirt, I'll take the first.

E-min.....no problem, I don't mind neck resets and such, that is jusr maintenance over the years....BUT one thing I draw the line at is the top, That top looks like it is part of a parquet floor. None of my vintages have cracks in the tops. I just think a solid top makes better music. I'm always wondering WHY the top has so many cracks??? Mis-use? Bad original wood? Left in a car trunk? Get my drift? Cracks in the side and back don't bother me that much, but not the top. Just a peeve of mine. Another thing I'm not fond of is huge gouges in the back of the neck, especially if I can feel them when I play. I have found this over time, you can ALWAYS find a better version of that Martin with a good top. That guitar you posted would just be a "player" guitar in my opinion, and would have not much vintage value for me. Just player value, so I would NOT pay a vintage price for a player guitar, even though that's pretty much what dealers do at these vintage guitar shows. MAXIMUM blue book even if the guitar needs $1000 worth of work. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[E-minor7]

E-min.....no problem,

From a sonic standpoint, I don't think a little well repaired crack here and there matters much.

Have 2 HD-28V's – the oldest has a crack down the seam from bridge to bottom. That's the one I'll keep. It sounds grander (maybe not better).

Anyway – the neck thing I follow. If the Mart. above was mine, I'd get it sanded under all circumstances. Too beefy for me.

[mking]

After having bought about three really vintage guitars, I have come to the conclusion they are old, there is no way around it. Call 'em vintage but they are old. So as some have mentioned here, they can come with some issues or impending issues because, say it with me folks, they are old. They indeed might need some work. The best advice is buy from a reputable vintage dealer. It will cost more, but you are also buying protection in that they will stand behind the guitar and plus, the really good shops have folks on staff that can fix any issues before it goes on sale. Plus they will reveal what those issues were and how they were addressed. If you find a good deal on Craig's list, it probably isn't a good deal. There are good honest people on ebay but you just need to get familiar with them, ask a lot of questions, look at their feedback etc. I had two deals on ebay that could have really gone south but the sellers were good honest people that wanted to make things right, even if that meant giving me a refund when the listing clearly stated "No Returns".

 

I have a 1948 LG-2 that is to die for. Before it went on Ebay an authorized Gibson luthier did some work on it to make it playable. I was able to talk with him a lot and in length regarding the condition of the guitar when he got it, what he did to the guitar, and lastly, he was willing to 100% stand by the work he did at no cost to me. I bought it to play, not to DISplay. I bought a brand new Calton case that was made for the guitar and that baby goes everywhere with me.

[j45nick]

I have to admit Im with Wily here, that guitar didnt really do much for me. It just sounded very muddy with little note seperation. I normally find 000's and OM's very balanced, even for Martin, but that one was just splashing bass overtones to the detriment of the overall tone.

 

 

My thoughts exactly.

[EuroAussie]

Hi

 

The answer is not really simple -- and totally not rational -- but I don't mind answering this question. The answer is a bit long, and not wishing to hijack the thread, I put it in an html file. Here it is for anyone who cares.

 

Best,

 

-Tom

 

Thanks Tom, great story. Seems like you made quite a few right choices in your life and followed your passions, but also listening to your head. A winning combination !

[EuroAussie]

 

 

Are there any other nice video reviews from some other good shops - as good as the MV ones are, I am getting a bit tired of Tony's same test tunes! (And there is fairly well no chance of me signing for the Acoustic Letter now!)

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

In terms of sound quality 'Sound Pure' to me is the best in the business, unfortunately they dont sample any Gibsons.

 

 

And Ive always liked this guy a lot as he goes through A LOT of different guitars, always enjoy this lads videos. He does quite a few Gibson reviews also, a really nice 60's Dove is one I really recall well.

 

 

To give you a comparisement her are clips from both reviewing the same guitar a Collings D2H, the guitar I would buy if I was in the mood for a Martin rosewood dread.

[E-minor7]

Those Collings' sound good. I can see why Joni would choose the model.

Jarvis is one happy lucky tester I'm a fan.

The Sound Pure clip is major, but notice how he avoids using a broader range of tecniques and stays down in the soft zone. I would have liked to hear a punch or two.

 

Btw. The 000-28 was picked more for the genuine vintage flavor than for the overall sound (which I also find good, especially between 2:20 and 2:49).

In other words I was talking 'bout the old sherry in the cake rather than the cake itself, if that makes sense.

In that regards the Collings' still sound like new vintage voiced guitars to me.

 

JVC The 35 is a scoop. Not unlike my 1953 J-45, which means the mellower branch of oldie 35-45. In my experience, they come as raw sitting on the farm fence creatures too.

[EuroAussie]

The Sound Pure clip is major, but notice how he avoids using a broader range of tecniques and stays down in the soft zone. I would have liked to hear a punch or two.[/color][/size][/font]

 

 

Here's one that is probably more in line with what we like to hear, a bit of strumming and pickin, more Gibson 'world' me thinks.

 

Except this is a Brazilian D2H, and pretty much the pinnacle tone that i would look for in a square shouldered rosewood dreadnought. Classic vintage voicing, but also articulation, balance, warmth, pretty much what I cant get from a HD-28. I really like these D2H guitars a lot.

 

[E-minor7]

Here's one that is probably more in line with what we like to hear, a bit of strumming and pickin, more Gibson 'world' me thinks.

 

Yeah, the new clip is even better in fact shining. But this guy too holds somewhat back. Doesn't matter we get the picture.

Now some may wonder How can E-minor7 speak about sound when he keeps claiming he has gone deaf from a spiky frost attack. Good point.

I'm not up to 100 at all, but I do put on earphones and when blowing while blocking my nose, small islands of rather clear hearing occurs.

A draaaag 'nough said.

[ParlourMan]

The Collings sound nice. Never had that model in Glasgow though and I prefer these clips to what they had.

[stein]

One thing I dig about the 'acoustic' side of this forum is that it's only a matter of time until the threads take a turn into something delicious. Ya'll can be talking about dead babies and someone will go "but look at that guitar leaning up in the corner...bet it sounds good".

 

My 12 cents: I think, if you are into old guitars, having a good luthier you can turn to is highly advantagious. It changes the whole nature of this whole discussion.

 

I mean, not all of us are in a position to have a luthier close by, so we are lucky if we know where we can SEND it. But then, even if there is somewhere we know we can drop it, an "average" luthier and a GOOD luthier can be a big spread as well. When someone has talent, the work they do is often a lot cheaper because they do it so fast, and they also make good money at it. And, there is that rust thing- if you have that, it takes the stress off of worrying what they might do.

 

I ain't been out and about in a long time, I WAS lucky to have both a great amp guy, and a great luthier here real close to me. If and when I ever had a problem, I just packed the guitar and stopped by like going to the store. Getting a guitar fixed could be the same cost and effort as groceries.

[jedzep]

Also interesting that we can get wound and rewound to rehash these passions in this group of geeks. Many of us, myself included, would have so much less joy in life if we lost this thing for strings stretched tightly over a few pieces of wood.

 

Can't comment on the downside of vintage 'cause I've hardly encountered it to the extent that I'd rather have new.

[BluesKing777]

In terms of sound quality 'Sound Pure' to me is the best in the business, unfortunately they dont sample any Gibsons.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY1miLW08UU

 

And Ive always liked this guy a lot as he goes through A LOT of different guitars, always enjoy this lads videos. He does quite a few Gibson reviews also, a really nice 60's Dove is one I really recall well.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qMrmXglSuk

 

To give you a comparisement her are clips from both reviewing the same guitar a Collings D2H, the guitar I would buy if I was in the mood for a Martin rosewood dread.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, EA!

 

 

I have been watching a few dangerous videos with SC guitars - I liked the look of the all mahogany 1929 when they first came out - also they were using a twin channel version of a Sebatron pre-amp I have to record some of the guitars (to way better effect than me!). There was ONE Gibson. also, do you have the link for the second guy's other videos?

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

UPDATE:

 

This Dream Guitars website seems pretty good - a put a link below to a Gibson L-00 Legend they have for sale. The site has photos section, video (normally), specs for most guitars they are selling - well everything except free drinks and guitars!;

 

 

http://www.dreamguitars.com/detail/3081-gibson_l00_01407010/

 

 

BluesKing777.

[bobouz]

My 12 cents: I think, if you are into old guitars, having a good luthier you can turn to is highly advantagious. It changes the whole nature of this whole discussion.

I mean, not all of us are in a position to have a luthier close by,

Totally agree.

 

I live about 90 miles from anyone who could do quality work of a more involved nature (two lane road, mountain range, snow in winter). That distance makes a huge difference compared to being able to do a quick drop off, check in & discuss progress, consider tweaks in the work being done, etc. In fact, I truly don't want to mess with any repair sourced out, if at all possible.

 

Therefore, I've gone in large part with newer instruments that should not need repair in my remaining lifetime. The vintage purchases I've made have been based considerably on the structural integrity of the piece, and my ability & desire to make any needed repairs.

 

Many moons ago I'd buy beaters & get them into good working order, then trade up a notch at a time to get a better instrument.

Nowadays, I want things to be mostly right at the point of purchase.

[BluesKing777]

Totally agree.

 

I live about 90 miles from anyone who could do quality work of a more involved nature (two lane road, mountain range, snow in winter). That distance makes a huge difference compared to being able to do a quick drop off, check in & discuss progress, consider tweaks in the work being done, etc. In fact, I truly don't want to mess with any repair sourced out, if at all possible.

 

Therefore, I've gone in large part with newer instruments that should not need repair in my remaining lifetime. The vintage purchases I've made have been based considerably on the structural integrity of the piece, and my ability & desire to make any needed repairs.

 

Many moons ago I'd buy beaters & get them into good working order, then trade up a notch at a time to get a better instrument.

Nowadays, I want things to be mostly right at the point of purchase.

 

 

 

 

I am the opposite - I live at the very, very end of the guitar universe in southern Victoria, Australia where the chances of getting a nice vintage acoustic Gibson are about as slim as the chances come

 

BUT

 

I live close to one of the best Luthiers around.

 

 

It is incredible - if I get something awful on eBay, he can wave his magic wand and it becomes beautiful and playable and....

 

 

So

 

There were scary moments the last time I was there when I heard rumours and rumbles and awful, awful comments about retiring to the south coast. So I have decided that if he does move, I'm GOING THERE TOO!

 

 

BluesKing777.

[onewilyfool]

I am the opposite - I live at the very, very end of the guitar universe in southern Victoria, Australia where the chances of getting a nice vintage acoustic Gibson are about as slim as the chances come

 

BUT

 

I live close to one of the best Luthiers around.

 

 

It is incredible - if I get something awful on eBay, he can wave his magic wand and it becomes beautiful and playable and....

 

 

So

 

There were scary moments the last time I was there when I heard rumours and rumbles and awful, awful comments about retiring to the south coast. So I have decided that if he does move, I'm GOING THERE TOO!

 

 

BluesKing777.

A good Luthier is worth his weight in gold!!!

[BluesKing777]

A good Luthier is worth his weight in gold!!!

 

I have given it a bit more thought and if the Luthier and I do move, I really, really hope we move somewhere cooler - 100+ degrees here today.....

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

(And he is a skinny chap, so his weight in gold wouldn't be much, Wily.)

[ParlourMan]

Would you really relocate due to a luthier moving away? Serious question......

[bobouz]

I really, really hope we move somewhere cooler - 100+ degrees here today.....

I grew up in LA (sun & smog).

 

My ideal now is 70 to 75 & overcast.

 

Sunny days are a downer!