onewilyfool Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I know some of you may disagree with me on this, but if you are into vintage instruments, be prepared to cough up some money after you get the instrument. I don't care how creful you are, there will always be something, a loose brace that needs to be re-glued, loose frets or low frets, cracks in the body, broken truss rod....always something. It is VERY rare you get a trouble free instrument. Not that you shouldn't get them, just be prepared to shell out more once you do....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I know some of you may disagree with me on this, but if you are into vintage instruments, be prepared to cough up some money after you get the instrument. I don't care how creful you are, there will always be something, a loose brace that needs to be re-glued, loose frets or low frets, cracks in the body, broken truss rod....always something. It is VERY rare you get a trouble free instrument. Not that you shouldn't get them, just be prepared to shell out more once you do....lol Point taken. I'm at that threshold of selling off some of my guitars to go either vintage or maybe a reissue like one of the legends. I'll wait and see what comes out of the Banner project JT is working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Well, if you do not know your way around these guitars, if you asked the Magic 8 Ball what were your chances of getting burned the answer would be "Chances Are Good." There is much to be said for doing something simple like bringing a mirror to look inside a guitar before you buy so you can eyeball cracked braces, chewed up bridge plates and such as well as make sure the guts have been unmolested. But as long as you are aware of them, condition issues and modifications are great bargaining chips and can significantly drop the price of a guitar. You just may end up paying the difference on the other end to the repair guy. One of the major downsides I have run into is cases. Folks have gotten savy to the fact that a Geib or Lifton case in good conditoon can fetch $400 to $700 on its own so it is getting more common not to have the case included in the sale. While a vintage case is not a necessity those old guitars sure do look good sitting in them. And poor poor pitiful me, I seem to be as addicted to the cases as I am to the guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Take her easy, Wily. You're all worked up over vintage risks. Do you have money on the 49ers or something? I've been lucky buying old. So far, so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telemaster03 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I read a Brian Setzer interview a couple years ago where he said the same thing about vintage Gretsch guitars. He went into a bit o detail about the upkeep of his vintage nstruments and what you can expect if purchasing a vintage guitar. He was basically saying that you're better off with reissues over vintage instruments if you actually want to use the guitars as opposed to buying them as an investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Take her easy, Wily. You're all worked up over vintage risks. Do you have money on the 49ers or something? Must've put up the L-1 on the 'Niners! Old saw alert: If one is just getting into Vintage, buy from a reputable dealer, not Te CraigsList. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 We've bought well over 100 vintage guitars and I have heard wild legends of vintage guitars that did not need work -- but I am yet to find one. The only question when you buy a vintage guitar is how much will it cost to fix it and who you will you let do the work. And pray no one tried to fix it before it came to you. The very first thing you need to know is what is wrong with the guitar. A mirror, flashlight, a good set of ears and a visual, retentive wife are the minimum in my experience -- and you must know when to walk. We have a dentist, a lawyer, a couple of doctors, and four family luthiers. The luthiers must be really good, have lots of experience, AND be very well known -- preferably famous. The work becomes part of the history of the instruments. Historically, vintage instruments have often paid for themselves and their maintenance plus a lot more when you sell them -- but there are no guarantees and if you can' afford the whole package, I would stay out. Also, we love old cases and we are really glad when we get them. We have 15+ of them displayed in the banjo room, and they do indeed go for $600-$1000. BUT, there is no way they are adequate for holding the instruments they came with -- which are now worth big $$. SO, if your vintage guitar comes in one, you also have to buy a case! Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks Tom....really great advice!!! We've bought well over 100 vintage guitars and I have heard wild legends of vintage guitars that did not need work -- but I am yet to find one. The only question when you buy a vintage guitar is how much will it cost to fix it and who you will you let do the work. And pray no one tried to fix it before it came to you. The very first thing you need to know is what is wrong with the guitar. A mirror, flashlight, a good set of ears and a visual, retentive wife are the minimum in my experience -- and you must know when to walk. We have a dentist, a lawyer, a couple of doctors, and four family luthiers. The luthiers must be really good, have lots of experience, AND be very well known -- preferably famous. The work becomes part of the history of the instruments. Historically, vintage instruments have often paid for themselves and their maintenance plus a lot more when you sell them -- but there are no guarantees and if you can' afford the whole package, I would stay out. Also, we love old cases and we are really glad when we get them. We have 15+ of them displayed in the banjo room, and they do indeed go for $600-$1000. BUT, there is no way they are adequate for holding the instruments they came with -- which are now worth big $$. SO, if your vintage guitar comes in one, you also have to buy a case! Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I feel it's like owning a great fishing boat.......you'll like it for what it is, but you will forever pour cash into it. J.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschaafs Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Wily, did you just buy another guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I have been training my elderly father in vintage/new Gibsons. He makes out he is interested to make conversation, but in his soul he thinks a guitar is is worth a max of $50. He lives in another state, so I am going to email this Martin from Elderly's and ask his impression of the 1936 Martin D-18 for $18,000, and then I may send him the '35 listed for $50,000. I will await his rely for quite a while - his mobile phone is something to keep in the glove-box of the car 'in case' and emails are read when he can remember his password, etc, etc: But to him it will just be an old guitar with a busted case..... http://elderly.com/images/vintage/10U/10U-5477_case.jpg BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubee Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I agree but have had few problems for a several reasons. I realized years ago that for me pristine vintage guitars were gonna see very little play outside of my house so I sold 'em. I also know a bit about evaluating the things so usually know what I'm into. Lastly, I just don't buy 'high end' flattops like many players do because I take 'em out to places you I don't want a $10K sitting out. I buy 'players' & know what's up with 'em when I do so. So I don't get all lathered up about some stuff. My last two players have been trouble free for years other than a crack cleat falling off. I didn't attend to that because the old thing has 7 back cracks (!) and the crack is stable enough. I do agree that old stuff needs work if it hasn't had it already & advise my friends that don't 'get' guitar stuff to go slow, be careful. Biggest issues to me are inexperienced people buying w/o knowing the deal + huge amount of info on the web feeding compulsive & impulsive behavior. But I am a guy who did most my dealing before all that. I bought a new Gibson AJRI ten years ago to have one guitar that wound be 'trouble free'. It's been that & more but I hauled my beat up '52 J-45 on an extended stay to FL figuring it wouldn't sound so 'soggy' & it's done fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 I see a lot of guys have had some similar experiences.......Just another note, another thing about vintage guitars, is not only repairs, but CONTINUED maintenance, which is much higher on older guitars...I am also interested in some of the new guitars that JT and Gibson are coming up with....Re-issues may be the way to go....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Tom, Im really fascinated by your collection. Can I ask do you collect them to have in your stable, or do you trade them as in buying vintage guitars, fixing them up and moving them on ? Just really curious as to your motivation to have over 100 guitars, let me rephrase that, 100 amazing vintage guitars. Often enjoy going to your webpage and hear you play them. We've bought well over 100 vintage guitars and I have heard wild legends of vintage guitars that did not need work -- but I am yet to find one. The only question when you buy a vintage guitar is how much will it cost to fix it and who you will you let do the work. And pray no one tried to fix it before it came to you. The very first thing you need to know is what is wrong with the guitar. A mirror, flashlight, a good set of ears and a visual, retentive wife are the minimum in my experience -- and you must know when to walk. We have a dentist, a lawyer, a couple of doctors, and four family luthiers. The luthiers must be really good, have lots of experience, AND be very well known -- preferably famous. The work becomes part of the history of the instruments. Historically, vintage instruments have often paid for themselves and their maintenance plus a lot more when you sell them -- but there are no guarantees and if you can' afford the whole package, I would stay out. Also, we love old cases and we are really glad when we get them. We have 15+ of them displayed in the banjo room, and they do indeed go for $600-$1000. BUT, there is no way they are adequate for holding the instruments they came with -- which are now worth big $$. SO, if your vintage guitar comes in one, you also have to buy a case! Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm glad this came up, it's something I've long argued here and been shot down in flames for before, like I was some sort of vintage hater or so... definitely not the case, just that going down the vintage route has a lot of post-purchase points which many never factor in. I'd also agree with it being fairly rare a vintage guitar did not need some sort of TLC to get it back to glory, as well as the ongoing maintenance. - by that notion making them the less than perfect tool for working guitarists in most situations. Undoubtedly lovely pieces and it's great that there are folk so dedicated to their restoration and preservation, from an appreciators or collectors perspective I'd love a room full of them, from a gigging guitarists perspective, I'd rather roll with a bunch of modern versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm glad this came up, it's something I've long argued here and been shot down in flames for before, like I was some sort of vintage hater or so... definitely not the case, just that going down the vintage route has a lot of post-purchase points which many never factor in. I'd also agree with it being fairly rare a vintage guitar did not need some sort of TLC to get it back to glory, as well as the ongoing maintenance. - by that notion making them the less than perfect tool for working guitarists in most situations. Undoubtedly lovely pieces and it's great that there are folk so dedicated to their restoration and preservation, from an appreciators or collectors perspective I'd love a room full of them, from a gigging guitarists perspective, I'd rather roll with a bunch of modern versions. See thats your rational side talking PM. And granted, all good points that need consideration. But ... if you played these 40's Slopeys that I played back in Oz all your rationalisation would go out the window in a second once you heard those beauties in your hands. We shouldnt forget guitars are almost always emotional purchases, much like cars. We think were using our head looking at the specs, mileage, service etc ... but in truth we buy with our hearts, its always the one that we 'feel' is the right one. Trust me, I work in advertising ... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryplatz Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I guess it depends on what we call "vintage". I never had any additional problems with 70's vintage guitars as long as they were repaired right to begin with. I also never had any problems in the 3-4 years I had my '65 J50. But, these guitars were all built during a time when the manufacturers were more concerned about structural integrity so as not to go broke honoring warranties.Once I got my '53 J50 it only took a few days before a few back braces came loose due to humidity changes. Now, looking at how thin the braces are and how much thinner the top and back were made compared to the more modern era guitars, it's not surprising that they would be more prone to cracking, loose braces, etc. And of course the age of the wood is a factor as well. As has been mentioned already, you need to educate yourself well enough to recognize how solid the guitar is before you buy and be aware that proper care and maintenance will be much more critical as the instrument gets older. Anything from the "golden era" (whenever that was) will be more lightly built (which is why it will sound so much better) and therefore much more fragile. It needs to be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Also, we love old cases and we are really glad when we get them. We have 15+ of them displayed in the banjo room, and they do indeed go for $600-$1000. BUT, there is no way they are adequate for holding the instruments they came with -- which are now worth big $$. SO, if your vintage guitar comes in one, you also have to buy a case! Let's pick, -Tom As much as I love vintage cases, I've found that the quality of cases made today is probably at least as good, if not better, when it comes to protecting a guitar. For what a decent vintage case costs, you can have a new custom-fit case made for your vintage guitar. It can be money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I read a Brian Setzer interview a couple years ago where he said the same thing about vintage Gretsch guitars. He went into a bit o detail about the upkeep of his vintage nstruments and what you can expect if purchasing a vintage guitar. He was basically saying that you're better off with reissues over vintage instruments if you actually want to use the guitars as opposed to buying them as an investment. I am guessing Setzer has a couple of pretty good guitar techs who keep his instruments together for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I am guessing Setzer has a couple of pretty good guitar techs who keep his instruments together for him. A continual process though, a luxury many can't stretch to, Mr Setzer is not even overly hard on his instruments, I saw his 'rockabilly riot' show not too long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm lucky to have a little string of vintage Gibsons and apart from a loose tooth around the sound hole on the '53 J-45 (which soon got fortified), there has been non serious probs. at all. And now were talking vintage, have a go with this oldie. There you hear what just can't be bought new. No G – a M. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjEPSUpp6BI&playnext=1&list=PLyEXIEdRd2Ox_2xA9b550CWI3B12JMST2&feature=results_main Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm lucky to have a little string of vintage Gibsons and apart from a loose tooth around the sound hole on the '53 J-45 (which soon got fortified), there has been non serious probs. at all. And now were talking vintage, have a go with this oldie. There you hear what just can't be bought new. No G – a M. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjEPSUpp6BI&playnext=1&list=PLyEXIEdRd2Ox_2xA9b550CWI3B12JMST2&feature=results_main I would NEVER buy that guitar.....however, I do like his T-shirt...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 As much as I love vintage cases, I've found that the quality of cases made today is probably at least as good, if not better, when it comes to protecting a guitar. For what a decent vintage case costs, you can have a new custom-fit case made for your vintage guitar. It can be money well spent. I like those vintage cases too.....they can sell for as much as the guitars sometimes......lol....Here's what my friend does.....he will gladly pay 500 bucks for a period correct vintage case, THEN put his vintage guitar in a new case, so he can "save" the old case for trade or sale later. Another thing he does which is pretty cool, he takes OFF the vintage tuners, and replaces them with modern tuners, and when he sells or trades, he puts them back on for maximum selling price. He has paid upwards of $1000 for correct period tuners on his 1930 OM Martin. Before you pass judgement, he actually PLAYS his vintage guitars, and takes them out in public for gigs and open mics, etc. AND he's made a sh#t load buying and selling guitars, so he knows what he is doing.....that bastard got me going into vintage guitars.....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Tom, Im really fascinated by your collection. Can I ask do you collect them to have in your stable, or do you trade them as in buying vintage guitars, fixing them up and moving them on ? Just really curious as to your motivation to have over 100 guitars, let me rephrase that, 100 amazing vintage guitars. Often enjoy going to your webpage and hear you play them. Hi The answer is not really simple -- and totally not rational -- but I don't mind answering this question. The answer is a bit long, and not wishing to hijack the thread, I put it in an html file. Here it is for anyone who cares. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I would NEVER buy that guitar.....however, I do like his T-shirt...... Okay, OWF – don't think I would either as the body size isn't my fav. Still in the cans I heard it as a brilliant example of that vintage extra thing. Aside from investment, can you explain your 'never' – just for a little ping-pong. Hey, in fact, I imagined it could be in your vein more than mine. Talkin' guitar and shirt, I'll take the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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