EVOL! Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/kot/ct-velvet-underground-50th-anniversary-ae-0226-20170222-column.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I Love them both. They are, each in their own way, seminal. What else is there to say? I'm sure the writer needs to feel like he has done a really good 'in-depth' piece of investigative journalism................ Pfftt... Kids these days. Get Off My LAWN ! ! ! ! Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Ignore me; I'm being even more cranky than usual! But.... The thing which I see as a complete smokescreen is that the author seems to be trying to suggest that things have changed in regards how the albums are - and continue to be - appreciated. We schoolkids were having exactly the same discussions/arguments about these albums back in the early to mid-'70s when the albums were all-but current. It's not that hindsight has given us 'Rose tinted Spectacles' nor that we were blind to the relative merits and colourings of the songs contained therein at the time! And if he thinks we didn't ask about / read up about the 'Venus in Furs' intentions then he gives less credit than is due to inquisitive teenagers. We all knew the Velvet's stuff to be far more on the edge and that Sgt. Peppers was a far more substantial piece of work in a general understanding as regards broad musical terms and compass; but that was not inherently important then and we didn't care anyhow; BOTH ALBUMS WERE SUPERB. We knew it then; we still know it now. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I could not take Nico's voice on the first album.... Oh man, I loved Nico. I'm not sure how I'll Be Your Mirror and Heroin could be on the same album, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trblake Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I still listen to both; however it should be remembered that Lou Reed, "I Never Liked the Beatles." Here is the hyper link: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/videos/lost-lou-reed-interview-i-never-liked-the-beatles-20150217 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Sgt Pepper - especially "A Day In The Life" - is generally seen as the Beatles' (and the Lennon/McCartney songwriting team) high point. 1967 too was arguably the apex of the swinging '60s for those who were old enough to appreciate it all. I was only 13! I remember that Pepper kept another classic LP off the top spot; "Are You Experienced" by Jimi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Ignore me; I'm being even more cranky than usual! But.... The thing which I see as a complete smokescreen is that the author seems to be trying to suggest that things have changed in regards how the albums are - and continue to be - appreciated. We schoolkids were having exactly the same discussions/arguments about these albums back in the early to mid-'70s when the albums were all-but current. It's not that hindsight has given us 'Rose tinted Spectacles' nor that we were blind to the relative merits and colourings of the songs contained therein at the time! And if he thinks we didn't ask about / read up about the 'Venus in Furs' intentions then he gives less credit than is due to inquisitive teenagers. We all knew the Velvet's stuff to be far more on the edge and that Sgt. Peppers was a far more substantial piece of work in a general understanding as regards broad musical terms and compass; but that was not inherently important then and we didn't care anyhow; BOTH ALBUMS WERE SUPERB. We knew it then; we still know it now. Pip. Yes Pip, but the Velvets have been my favourite band since I graduated from the Beatles at 16. And while the writer is pretentious, he's right about Revolver and Rubber Soul being better Beatles albums. Nothing as silly as Rita on them. Meanwhile, the first Velvets album is their real masterpiece (though Sweet Jane is my favourite song, FZF, so Loaded has its moments). I have to respectfully disagree over which version of Heroin is better, FZF. I'll take John Cale's viola over Steve Hunter and **** Wagner any day. Reed needed Cale to do something really out of the ordinary. He wrote great songs after the first album, but the avant-garde edge departs with Cale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I understand. The walk on intro before Sweet Jane still amazes me. The Deacon and Wagner are killing it. Lou was never better IMOH. Better than Metallica and Lou Reed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'm sure the writer needs to feel like he has done a really good 'in-depth' piece of investigative journalism................ I was actually thinking something very similar as I read the piece. I read some interview with Lou Reed years ago, where he commented something to the effect that VU didn't consider it a successful show unless they caused people to turn around and leave in disgust. I interpreted that as a cop-out for not being able to make music that most people actually wanted to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookery Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Sgt Pepper - especially "A Day In The Life" - is generally seen as the Beatles' (and the Lennon/McCartney songwriting team) high point. 1967 too was arguably the apex of the swinging '60s for those who were old enough to appreciate it all. I was only 13! I remember that Pepper kept another classic LP off the top spot; "Are You Experienced" by Jimi. I'm the same age as you. Just for the record, my favourite is Abbey Road. So there you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 ...the writer is...right about Revolver and Rubber Soul being better Beatles albums.... Surely that's entirely subjective, Mojorule? ...Sgt Pepper...is generally seen as the Beatles'...high point... ...Pepper is not my favorite Beatle album, The White Album is... ...Just for the record, my favourite is Abbey Road. So there you are... Personally I don't even have a favourite Beatles album; they all have something each in their own way. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Very interesting and thought-provoking post, FZ Fan. The Beatles low points... Certainly a list of their low-points would be (IMO) considerably shorter that their successes. For me it takes a lot to out-do "Why Don't We Do It In the Road" in the 'Pile of Crap' stakes... Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I could never get into the Beatles. Abbey Road was probably my favourite record of theirs, but I don't think I've listened to that for about 14 years. I'd rather listen to The Band,...or better yet the Mahavishnu Orchestra. None of the Beatles were great instrumentalists and I think that's why I never loved them. Could you imagine Lennon or Harrison playing like Segovia or Joe Pass? Nope! Maybe I missed the point of the Beatles. I only liked 3 songs on Sgt. Pepper, the rest I found awful. (This is just my opinion, no disrespect to the mob of Beatles fans out there who normally lynch anyone who says a bad word about them ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 What the Beatles accomplished with Pepper, was an amazing technical achievement because their vision exceeded their primitive studio environment. George Martin and Geoff Emerick's ability to translate that vision shouldn't be overlooked either. It was the point at which Rock/Pop music was taken seriously and although I was only 7 years old when it was released, I remember all the older teens in the neighborhood talking about it. I certainly understand it's historical placement but is it my favorite Beatles album? Nope! But that changes depending on my mood although it usually falls in line behind 1. Revolver 2. Abbey Road 3. White Album 4. Rubber Soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Surely that's entirely subjective, Mojorule? Personally I don't even have a favourite Beatles album; they all have something each in their own way. Pip. In so far as all opinions are subjective, Pip, you are right. But I think 'entirely' is overstating the case: I have reasons, which while not entirely objective, are not fully subjective either. For instance: considerably less kitsch-nostalgia music-hall schtick from McCartney on Rubber Soul and Revolver (what your reviewer terms 'dance hall homage' with reference to the well-chosen example of 'When I'm 64'), and more of his edgier input ('so I lit the fire...'); lyrics from Lennon on RS and R which are not just inspired by his cereal packet, a vintage poster he's got hanging at home, and a newspaper report; first use of Fender Strats and the now legendary '64 Bassman (the double-tracked chordal solo on 'Nowhere Man' really sets the tone quite literally); the first use of reversed recordings in pop on 'Tomorrow Never Knows'; George's first use of the sitar on 'Norwegian Wood'. I could go on. Don't get me wrong, I love Pepper. I am a bit younger than you, but still of an age where the Beatles were all over the (limited) radio when I was a kid, and the key players in the home record collection. I really got very excited when my eldest got into music/records/the Beatles through my parents' original 1967 copy of Pepper. But so much of the stuff that people write about it is so ideological that it makes me wish Flaubert were around to skewer it: just quote it with enough chutzpah and we'll all see it for the guff it is. Yes it has some fancy production. No, it's not their first album to feature most of that stuff. Yes it has some good songs - including the cornflakes song, the one about the renowned black circus owner from my home town, and the one about the Guiness heir and the holes. No not many of them would make a serious list of best Beatles songs ahead of 'Norwegian Wood', 'Nowhere Man', 'Michelle', 'In My Life', 'Taxman', 'Eleanor Rigby', 'Here, There and Everywhere', 'And Your Bird Can Sing' (even if Lennon purportedly hated the last). Like so much with the Beatles the reputation of Pepper fluctuates according to what everybody has been saying about it most recently. If everybody's been saying it's the best, the moment when they really revolutionized recording, an unsurpassed masterpiece - well then even the biggest Beatles lover is likely to turn around and suggest that it's a bit overrated, and that perhaps its predecessors are unjustly ignored. But if everybody's slagging it off in favour of Revolver, then it starts to seem underrated. Incidentally, same is true for McCartney's bass playing too. Yes he's a true great. No he's not quite as good as I used to think: there's less going on there than I perceived when I was younger. James Jamerson and Duck Dunn get more groove while moving around the fretboard more. And Ashley Hutchings produces flowing, melodic lines more consistently. But the received ideas persist: Pepper is the best album, and they got all those guitar sounds out of a Vox AC30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 You are exactly right The Beatles are not virtuoso's of their instruments (Paul is no slouch on bass though) like the some of the uber players out there, but when it comes to listening to Joe Satriani or Steve Via (who I admire due to playing with FZ) ect ect. I get bored after 10 minuets of them just showing off for showing off shake. I could listen to The Beatles every day. Oh and they only changed music forever. Just my opinion. I do love jazz but Jazz Fusion bores me to tears. They are technically sound and damn great players, but I just could never get into Jazz Fusion. A lot of people I know can't stand jazz fusion or even jazz so I understand your point of view. I didn't get into it until I was in my late teens/ early 20's, before that all I listened to was rock and metal. Regarding Vai & Satch, for many years I didn't really care for them (for similar reasons to yourself), then one day their playing clicked with me and I enjoy their music now. Satch was always the more melodic one I think, but I do like Vai too. I do find it very interesting why people (including myself!) like and dislike certain types of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 There are 2 types of music. Music you like and music you don't like. That is it. There is a third type: music that nobody likes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 There is a third type: music that nobody likes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 I remember that. Somebody liked it enough to cause a pretty good rights scuffle over it. They don't do that for things that don't make money! rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I remember that. Somebody liked it enough to cause a pretty good rights scuffle over it. They don't do that for things that don't make money! rct This version was good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FISHEO3gsM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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