j45nick Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 too much focus on the company-this is a site about GUITARS, henry was, after all, a newbie-REMEMBER ORVILLE !!!! Orville's fate was not a happy one, and he apparently turned into a bit of an off-the-wall crank without much interest in running a business in later years. But he did start it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 too much focus on the company-this is a site about GUITARS, henry was, after all, a newbie-REMEMBER ORVILLE !!!! Personally I tend to favor the Gibsons that came after 1918. It was not Orville that came up with the F4 mandolin, the Advanced Jumbo, the J35 and J45, the Super 400, the Mastertone flathead 5 string banjo, the Hummingbird. They were developed by Newbies such as Guy Hart, Maurice Berlin and Ted McCarty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I hope that is not the direction. Ooh could be worse - how about slim lines built in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 So a bit of heavy duty R&D is out? Like for instance, how about doing some research and inventing the best acoustic guitar pickup? Something every guitarist actually not only wants but wants to buy the guitar for! You know, research and D like the predecessors did on the Gibby Humbucker, P90, PAF all that on the electric early days....... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Personally I tend to favor the Gibsons that came after 1918. It was not Orville that came up with the F4 mandolin, the Advanced Jumbo, the J35 and J45, the Super 400, the Mastertone flathead 5 string banjo, the Hummingbird. They were developed by Newbies such as Guy Hart, Maurice Berlin and Ted McCarty. Exactly !! good instruments will survive and thrive-managment and work force will not-dont sweat the business end is all Im saying, no offence intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 So a bit of heavy duty R&D is out? Like for instance, how about doing some research and inventing the best acoustic guitar pickup? Something every guitarist actually not only wants but wants to buy the guitar for! You know, research and D like the predecessors did on the Gibby Humbucker, P90, PAF all that on the electric early days....... BluesKing777. I doubt you will get any better than those early pickups simply because CuNiFe magnets are no longer available. Based on what a guy who makes pickups told me when I asked about the possibility of making me an old style pickup, he would need to machine his own bobbins and cut alnico 5s to exact specifications. It can be done but costs a small fortune. I recall Seymour Duncan saying after they had scored a small amount of CuNiFe rod if they could secure enough of it they could make a killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 So a bit of heavy duty R&D is out? Like for instance, how about doing some research and inventing the best acoustic guitar pickup? Something every guitarist actually not only wants but wants to buy the guitar for! You know, research and D like the predecessors did on the Gibby Humbucker, P90, PAF all that on the electric early days....... BluesKing777. R&D on electronics in this market is a big, expensive gamble, IMHO. Henry did the equivalent by purchasing companies that were (or were not) cutting edge tech wise. I'd prefer that instead of increasing expenses for R&D they lower their prices. I especially would hate to think I was paying $1,000 more for an acoustic - so some 17 year old MIGHT get a rad sounding electric 10 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Well, Levis aren't as good and cost more. Hope that's not an omen. Yep. Wranglers has them beat hands down. Levi's have been produced in Mexico for years - and they use thinner material. Levis has an ad on TV now - very weird. It's like those perfume commercials that make absolutely no sense and have nothing to do with the product. It's a transparent 'lifestyle' statement which attempts to energize their base to register to vote! I hope Gibson doesn't start making guitars with political statements plastered on them, like Martin's model with the 'legalize marijuana' graffiti all over it. At least Gibson didn't hire the CEO from Starbucks. NOTHING they sell is made in the USA ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie King Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Time to make the best guitars and mandolins ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul14 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Yep. Wranglers has them beat hands down. Levi's have been produced in Mexico for years - and they use thinner material. Levis has an ad on TV now - very weird. It's like those perfume commercials that make absolutely no sense and have nothing to do with the product. It's a transparent 'lifestyle' statement which attempts to energize their base to register to vote! I hope Gibson doesn't start making guitars with political statements plastered on them, like Martin's model with the 'legalize marijuana' graffiti all over it. At least Gibson didn't hire the CEO from Starbucks. NOTHING they sell is made in the USA ! Me too! https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/6/levi-strauss-goes-gun-control-have-corporations-go/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Yep. Wranglers has them beat hands down. Levi's have been produced in Mexico for years - and they use thinner material. Most Wranglers are made off-shore, too. The only ones made in the US cost about $250 per pair! Not only that, but the last denimn mill in the US, Cone Oak's White Oak mill closed their doors recently, so no denimn cloth is manufactured in rhe US any longer😟 Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 So a bit of heavy duty R&D is out? Like for instance, how about doing some research and inventing the best acoustic guitar pickup? Something every guitarist actually not only wants but wants to buy the guitar for! You know, research and D like the predecessors did on the Gibby Humbucker, P90, PAF all that on the electric early days....... BluesKing777. This approach is exactly what got them into trouble. They diversified too much and neglected the core business, which is guitars. Leave the pickup development to Baggs and Fishman and focus on making great guitars. Having worked in marketing for 20 years now, the most effective way to grow is through penetration, or recruitment of new buyers. So Gibsons primary challenge is to recruit new customers through innovative and accessable models (J-15/ 35 acheived exactly that), improve their distribution which has been a BIG issue for them and to a lesser extent keep existing players happy through great customer service and brand experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 This approach is exactly what got them into trouble. They diversified too much and neglected the core business, which is guitars. Leave the pickup development to Baggs and Fishman and focus on making great guitars. Having worked in marketing for 20 years now, the most effective way to grow is through penetration, or recruitment of new buyers. So Gibsons primary challenge is to recruit new customers through innovative and accessable models (J-15/ 35 acheived exactly that), improve their distribution which has been a BIG issue for them and to a lesser extent keep existing players happy through great customer service and brand experience. I don’t think they will do any of that, anyway.... But I was hoping to get my point across of Gibson coming up with THE acoustic pickup, like they came up with THE pickups for electric guitars over the years? Stop peddling acoustic pickups thst grt plugged straight in and sound REALLY lousy. I went to see a fantastic singer blues guitarist...the local guy on first plugged his (budget) Maton 808 direct to the cruddy house PA and sounded and played absolutely fabulous! The famous guy came out, plugged in his Gibson (185?) with Element system to the same PA and sounded truly awful. His singing was great but I went home, guitar sounded horrid. This needs to be fixed, without performing musicians having to spend a fortune to get other decent soundng pickup systems when they have already paid for the one that came with the guitar, or people like him above will keep plugging straight in because they don’t understand after having been told they already have a ‘realistic acoustic pickup sound’.NOT. I never had to buy a Les Paul then change the pickups. Just saying. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Most Wranglers are made off-shore, too. The only ones made in the US cost about $250 per pair! Not only that, but the last denimn mill in the US, Cone Oak's White Oak mill closed their doors recently, so no denimn cloth is manufactured in rhe US any longer😟 Red 333 T Yeah. Most of the mills are closed now. My first girlfriend in college when I decided to emigrate from Long Island to Western North Carolina - Celia, her father worked long and hard at the cotton mill. He also kept a shotgun in the corner behind the front door. His only breakfast instant coffee made with hot tap water. Baptist with snake-bite medicine in a little bottle on the top shelf in the cupboard. Gaston Country was dry at the time. Had a really big chicken coop too. Denim overhauls. Didn't cost $25, let alone $250 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 T Yeah. Most of the mills are closed now. My first girlfriend in college when I decided to emigrate from Long Island to Western North Carolina - Celia, her father worked long and hard at the cotton mill. He also kept a shotgun in the corner behind the front door. His only breakfast instant coffee made with hot tap water. Baptist with snake-bite medicine in a little bottle on the top shelf in the cupboard. Gaston Country was dry at the time. Had a really big chicken coop too. Denim overhauls. Didn't cost $25, let alone $250 ! Ah ! The good old days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Yep. Wranglers has them beat hands down. Levi's have been produced in Mexico for years - and they use thinner material. Levis has an ad on TV now - very weird. It's like those perfume commercials that make absolutely no sense and have nothing to do with the product. It's a transparent 'lifestyle' statement which attempts to energize their base to register to vote! I hope Gibson doesn't start making guitars with political statements plastered on them, like Martin's model with the 'legalize marijuana' graffiti all over it. At least Gibson didn't hire the CEO from Starbucks. NOTHING they sell is made in the USA ! I remember back in the day about the only place you could buy jeans was in a hardware or feed store. But yeah, I have also switched over to Wranglers. I can buy three pair for what one pair of Levi 501 would run me. If I am going to spend what Levis run, I will go with Carhartt. Heavier denim for about the same price. Plus they still make the flannel lined jeans which while not cheap are just so comfy. But I do digress. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Sorry to be the guy that sends out some bad news but.... I believe things will change drastically. The new management will try to trim down the expenses and when they look at Montana they will find that all the processes except for the actual building are duplicated in Nashville. There is a battle for turf between the two places and things like marketing and sales are big issues as well as the actual day to day details like Human Resources and the like. Many years ago John Thomas sent all of his detailed measurements and x-rays of old Gibson's to Gibson. All of these specs were sent to China and not Montana. John will confirm this. Epiphone has a huge factory in China and they are perfectly capable of build exact copies of all of J.Ts research. China has no problem with buying all the wood they want from anywhere. The Federal government will not interfere with their day to day activities. If an iconic brand like Levis can go to China then the next logical step would be for Gibson to go offshore as well. The new management will be ready to cut costs and Montana could be history. I certainly hope this will not happen as I am a true Gibson Montana champion but at some point we will have to face reality. Henry couldn't do this and he paid the price. Henry promoted the magic of a place in the mountains with a legendary almost mythical figure who made guitars one at a time. Well the Ren Ferguson era is over and the Henry era is over and the new Gibson will not be so kind. Lets try to focus this discussion on guitars and not so much on wearing apparel. By the way when Levi left the country I went to Wrangler. I have way to many Gibson Montana guitars and won't be buying anything from China so.... I hope to hell I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Sorry to be the guy that sends out some bad news but.... I believe things will change drastically. The new management will try to trim down the expenses and when they look at Montana they will find that all the processes except for the actual building are duplicated in Nashville. There is a battle for turf between the two places and things like marketing and sales are big issues as well as the actual day to day details like Human Resources and the like. Many years ago John Thomas sent all of his detailed measurements and x-rays of old Gibson's to Gibson. All of these specs were sent to China and not Montana. John will confirm this. Epiphone has a huge factory in China and they are perfectly capable of build exact copies of all of J.Ts research. China has no problem with buying all the wood they want from anywhere. The Federal government will not interfere with their day to day activities. If an iconic brand like Levis can go to China then the next logical step would be for Gibson to go offshore as well. The new management will be ready to cut costs and Montana could be history. I certainly hope this will not happen as I am a true Gibson Montana champion but at some point we will have to face reality. Henry couldn't do this and he paid the price. Henry promoted the magic of a place in the mountains with a legendary almost mythical figure who made guitars one at a time. Well the Ren Ferguson era is over and the Henry era is over and the new Gibson will not be so kind. Lets try to focus this discussion on guitars and not so much on wearing apparel. By the way when Levi left the country I went to Wrangler. I have way to many Gibson Montana guitars and won't be buying anything from China so.... I hope to hell I am wrong. I hope not .Guekian posted a J 45 Vine from his personal collection over on Instagram a few days ago. Hopefully these guys appreciate what the folks up there are doing. I’ve been playing my Sj 200 TV from 2007 again recently and I love the sound more than ever ... the fretboard has divots in the Cowboy frets after playing it hard for years ... But it’s magic if you ask me. That’s the way I feel about the Bozeman product in general. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I appreciate the dose of reality, Hogeye. Hope it doesn't go that way, but horse sense leans that way for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I have way to many Gibson Montana guitars and won't be buying anything from China so.... I hope to hell I am wrong. Boy, Hogeye, I hope you're wrong, too! Maybe it's time to start buying new or late-model acoustic Gibsons, while they're still made in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Most Wranglers are made off-shore, too. The only ones made in the US cost about $250 per pair! Not only that, but the last denimn mill in the US, Cone Oak's White Oak mill closed their doors recently, so no denimn cloth is manufactured in rhe US any longer😟 Red 333 I bought a pair of jeans this year for the first time since, maybe, the 1980's. They're LL Bean 1912 model "made in Mexico of US fabric." My Gibson denim jacket (iD branded, whoever that is) says "made in Canada." Probably the only clothing items other than shoes in my closet made in the USA are some old moldy blazers and tweed jackets, one of which says "tailored in the United States by American craftsmen." Then there's my high school letter sweater, from 1964 (seriously, I still have it), which says "made in Los Angeles California USA". I'm guessing it was made in an east LA sweatshop by Mexican workers. It's a global manufacturing economy out there, like it or not. However, I'm drawing the line on guitars. Although come to think of it, a have a little Martin travel guitar made in Mexico, plus a Spanish classical. Never mind, but I ain't buying no "Made in China" Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 No one hopes I'm wrong more than me. No one. I just think that we may be in for some rough times. Henry kept Montana insulated from reality for quite a few years. Will the new guy be so inclined? I hope so... Just to be on the safe side I'd keep my Montana guitars for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Gulp...I guess my new acoustic sounding pickup-to-be-invented-still ain't coming. Doesn't matter - I have invented one myself - put my phone in the soundhole and tape it up with gaffa tape. Beam the sound to my computer by WiFi.....All we need is a 'phone mount for soundholes'... Same things have happened here - worldwide really - all the manufacturing has gone to Asia, no cars made here at all. But the "Made In China' label is fairly unlikely, most things are made in Indonesia now, help desks and online stuff in Manilla, Phillipines and all owned by all kinds of nationalities.... you will have to get them past your new wall. The local guitar makers, Maton and Cole Clark, have purposedly improved their quality and stress the ‘hand built’ component to compete with cheap imports.... they are still running, selling bucketloads because you can get 4 budget Matons, for example, for the price of a Gibson Bird here. They are hanging on by the skin of their teeth though, I better go buy another Maton....hmm, that matt black one or the Custom Shop ....? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Some different viewpoints on AGF: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525894 BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I totally get pride in your own nation But does politics really come into you guys choice of instrument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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