ol fred Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Jesus . why don't you just go and ask your dad why he didn't hug you instead of taking it out on us You can always do the same thing I did. If enough folks block him perhaps he will shrivel up and blow away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Oh Man, telling a member some of the things like needing to take meds, and needing hugs is just cheap shots guys!! IMHO THAT is really hateful, if you are pots calling the kettle black I guess that's okay. I didn't read anything that Jerry said that was an attack on anything but pointing out the grounds UPS will stand on. Ol Fred, he didn't claim you had done something underhanded! Just that the guitar needed a case to have been shipped in (like all the Gibson's I've ever received. Also UPS states that the packaging must be good enough to survive a 3' fall. I'm not sure that a 3' fall, in a case, & with bubble wrap, & on the end would have avoided damage to the guitar. Maybe, but that can be a hard blow. I have heard that our UPS hub in Iowa is one of the ones with THE 3' FALL as I see many things damaged when they arrive. Hope things turn out for you. I had to go head to head with FedEx Grnd on a Ric that was subjected to cold then hot, in a Ric case & in great packing. The finish checked and they paid for the guitar. So there's hope!! I would for sure point out the impact issue as even packaged well if you hit hard enough, on the right, or wrong place, you've got some structure damage from the impact. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol fred Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Oh Man, telling a member some of the things like needing to take meds, and needing hugs is just cheap shots guys!! IMHO THAT is really hateful, if you are pots calling the kettle black I guess that's okay. I didn't read anything that Jerry said that was an attack on anything but pointing out the grounds UPS will stand on. Ol Fred, he didn't claim you had done something underhanded! Just that the guitar needed a case to have been shipped in (like all the Gibson's I've ever received. Also UPS states that the packaging must be good enough to survive a 3' fall. I'm not sure that a 3' fall, in a case, & with bubble wrap, & on the end would have avoided damage to the guitar. Maybe, but that can be a hard blow. I have heard that our UPS hub in Iowa is one of the ones with THE 3' FALL as I see many things damaged when they arrive. Hope things turn out for you. I had to go head to head with FedEx Grnd on a Ric that was subjected to cold then hot, in a Ric case & in great packing. The finish checked and they paid for the guitar. So there's hope!! I would for sure point out the impact issue as even packaged well if you hit hard enough, on the right, or wrong place, you've got some structure damage from the impact. Aster I never suggested Jerry attacked me, what I said was that I had grown tired of his constant negativity. I don't have the time to do a search on the forum for positive comments he has made to anyone but I know they are few and far between (and if anyone cares to do the research on this you have WAY too much time on your hands) All in all it's just easier to block the "Nattering Nabob of Negativity" to quote someone who may have been his mentor. UPS and especially Crawford Insurance, the company that actually handles the claims have shown an obvious trend towards a blanket policy of denial no matter how small the claim in the hope that most will finally shrug their shoulders and walk away. That is not going to happen this time. We'll just see where the dance takes us. Happy that the big brown was willing to settle with you. You sir are an absolute rarity according to the statistics on the company that I'm accumulating (and all those hours spent studying statistical analysis that I thought I had wasted) Thanks again to all of those who have offered your moral support through this long strange trip, but to repeat myself...it ain't over till the fat lady sings. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigshot Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I have to admit, I'd never ship a guitar without a case. Bubble wrap is good for jostling, but it won't help a hard knock. It is meant to isolate, not protect. Same with packing peanuts. If they are loose and slide out of the way, it's wide open for a hard crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Hope it all works out in the end. I found that buying insurance from a place like Heritage is worth the peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I too hope it works out, you know that, Fred. So the situation brings up a few questions.... Is there a better way of doing this? I am a little bit hesitant now and have had a close call or two. Lucky our exchange rate is miserable now. So am I right in thinking that the rich and famous wouldn't stand for this kind of service? How do they go about moving their 'stuff' around? I have a feeling that it is not with UPS or Fedex? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Just checked how my four Mexican made Fender FR Stratocasters were packed: They came each in a rectangular carton made of corrugated cardboard in a 1.5 mm (1/16 inch) polystyrene foam bag conataining bags with silica dryer and were cushioned with folded molds also made of corrugated cardboard. There was no bubble wrap or the like. Think if occurred damage during shipment from overseas, they wouldn't pack them this way, but it seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Just another sad shipping story: On Friday, I received a vintage Gibson amp I'd ordered online from GC. I've received many other amps from them, and they've been heavily packaged in bubble wrap + foam on the top & bottom. This time, there was foam on the top & bottom, but no bubble wrap, allowing the amp to shift east & west. At 40+ lbs, it cracked the hell out of the cab. This baby was in excellent condition, and it was quite sad to see it busted up. On the plus side, I was able to take it to my local GC for a no hassle & full refund. They even refunded the shipping charge. Gotta say, their return policy is a real plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotneck Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Just checked how my four Mexican made Fender FR Stratocasters were packed: They came each in a rectangular carton made of corrugated cardboard in a 1.5 mm (1/16 inch) polystyrene foam bag conataining bags with silica dryer and were cushioned with folded molds also made of corrugated cardboard. like. Think if occurred damage during shipment from overseas, they wouldn't pack them this way, but it seems to work. Stratocasters and vintage flat tops have one thing in common. They both have strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Yeah and that's where it ends on the shipping similarities IMHO, A hard hit on either end and it can be "big trouble in River City" for an acoustic. Packing or not. I think Fred will come out okay. Just stick to your guns. Just don't stick any guns to the UPS ins. company and ask for a surrender. Even though that might help!! Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Stratocasters and vintage flat tops have one thing in common. They both have strings. I think that a Stratocaster and a hollowbody guitar both are subjects with inherent mass inertia that by the way is what makes a headstock snap off when added to the string tension by a heavy knock. It seems that Fred's guitar was damaged by hitting the ground with the lower bout, so it goes around gravity and inertia, not another packed item or so. UPS should know that gravity and inertia depend on mass and are about the same around the planet, and that falling height is limited for every given item and every given package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 One wonders how many indicating support would themselves ship a valuable guitar or knowingly have a valuable guitar shipped to them in a standard cardboard guitar box with bubble wrap but no case? Outfits like Musician's Friend and so forth can ship cheap guitars in minimal packaging because the shipping service has less ability to say the guitar was already broken and both the seller and the shipping service can live with the risks involved on cheapo instruments and the rate of damage. The customer has no risk - back it goes. That is a remarkably different situation from me shipping a valuable guitar to someone buying it from me. I am leaving UPS aside since I assume they screwed up somehow, otherwise how did it get broken. The questions I pose are would it be broken if it had been shipped in a case? If it were, would the case provide better evidence than cardboard and bubble wrap of what really happened? I don't know about support; I don't "like" anything on FB without knowing more about it than this, but outfits like Musician's Friend and so forth can ship guitars without cases because a) fragile items can be and are packed and shipped successfully every day in this world without hardshell cases. Many of them are items for which there is no such thing as a hardshell case. And they don't build wood boxes for them. What is used to pack them, and it's SOP for companies like UPS, is stuff like, well, cardboard and bubble wrap. Happens every day. But that's not the whole reason why outfits like Musician's Friend and so forth ship guitars without cases. They can do it because they're insured for it. Which is exactly what Fred did when he bought the insurance from UPS. I'm new here. I don't know you and can't comment on your character, which would be inappropriate anyway. But I can say without hesitation or fear of inaccuracy that in this particular instance, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperland Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I don't know about support; I don't "like" anything on FB without knowing more about it than this, but outfits like Musician's Friend and so forth can ship guitars without cases because a) fragile items can be and are packed and shipped successfully every day in this world without hardshell cases. Many of them are items for which there is no such thing as a hardshell case. And they don't build wood boxes for them. What is used to pack them, and it's SOP for companies like UPS, is stuff like, well, cardboard and bubble wrap. Happens every day. But that's not the whole reason why outfits like Musician's Friend and so forth ship guitars without cases. They can do it because they're insured for it. Which is exactly what Fred did when he bought the insurance from UPS. I'm new here. I don't know you and can't comment on your character, which would be inappropriate anyway. But I can say without hesitation or fear of inaccuracy that in this particular instance, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. P UPS doesn't sell insurance, neither does Fedex. Declared value is not insurance. http://www.pressroom.ups.com/Fact+Sheets/ci.UPS+Declared+Value+Q%26A.print Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 UPS doesn't sell insurance, neither does Fedex. Declared value is not insurance. http://www.pressroom.ups.com/Fact+Sheets/ci.UPS+Declared+Value+Q%26A.print So when I shipped that guitar a couple of months ago via UPS, and I asked to insure it for $1000, and they gave me a price and added the insurance to my receipt. the UPS guy was pulling a fast one? P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Wow....loos like the deck is definitely stacked AGAINST the customer..........this is why I try to buy local, play before pay, try before buy....I try to NOT ship a guitar if possible....The only time I ship, is when I need to go to repair at my luthier's, and he also has professional insurance for shipping.....his account shows up when the Fedex guy types in his information.......so that is SOME relief, but really, as we are seeing, you just don't want to go through this claim process...first they damage the guitar, THEN they damage the owner..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperland Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 So when I shipped that guitar a couple of months ago via UPS, and I asked to insure it for $1000, and they gave me a price and added the insurance to my receipt. the UPS guy was pulling a fast one? P Did you read the first sentence from the link I provided? "Declared value is not insurance coverage." It appears that you paid an extra fee to insure your package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Did you read the first sentence from the link I provided? "Declared value is not insurance coverage." It appears that you paid an extra fee to insure your package. I didn't open the link at all; I didn't need to. What I read was this: UPS doesn't sell insurance, neither does Fedex And it is wrong. I always insure guitars when shipping UPS, FedX or USPS, for a bit more than declared value and because, right or wrong, I figure I'll get a hell of a lot less fight out of them (might even have them advocating for me) if I'm trying to collect from their insurance company than if I'm trying to collect from them. I could be wrong about that, but that's not the point. They do sell insurance. I know this because I buy it. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson101 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I gotta side with Jerry on this. Why would you ship an expensive guitar with no case, that makes NO sense. Best of luck. I had a guitar damaged by UPS that was packed poorly by the seller. $5,000 custom I waited on for a year so trust me I feel your pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperland Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 So when I shipped that guitar a couple of months ago via UPS, and I asked to insure it for $1000, and they gave me a price and added the insurance to my receipt. the UPS guy was pulling a fast one? P I don't know what to tell you. I've offered you info direct from UPS and you disagree. There is also another link below you can read. I'm just the messenger, no need to be upset with me. http://www.pressroom.ups.com/Fact+Sheets/ci.UPS+Declared+Value+Q%26A.print http://consumerist.com/2013/06/12/ups-doesnt-offer-insurance-even-if-an-employee-tells-you-it-does/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 UPS doesn't sell insurance, neither does Fedex. I don't know what to tell you. How about: "I was wrong, UPS and FedEx do sell insurance." . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperland Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 How about: "I was wrong, UPS and FedEx do sell insurance." . . Perhaps you can post a link so I can see where you are actually buying insurance from UPS and Fedex instead of just saying I was wrong. I posted links supporting what I said. Please do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 http://www.pressroom.ups.com/Fact+Sheets/ci.UPS+Declared+Value+Q%26A.print http://consumerist.com/2013/06/12/ups-doesnt-offer-insurance-even-if-an-employee-tells-you-it-does/ Thanks for sharing the very interesting links, especially the second one with supporting video. "Declared Value" is certainly a different ballgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Perhaps you can post a link so I can see where you are actually buying insurance from UPS and Fedex instead of just saying I was wrong. I posted links supporting what I said. Please do the same. With UPS, you can declare whatever value you want up to %50K. To be insured for the declared value, in case of damage over $100, you must buy enough insurance to cover your declared value. The first $100 of declared value is insured by UPS through the shipping charge. Every $100 in excess valuation over the initial $100 is $0.90 to insure, minimum insurance charge for excess valuation is $1.80. Also, you have to support your declared value with documentation - sales receipt, appraisal, etc. Even after all this, you can still get denied a damage claim based on packaging or fraud. In case you want to read this - the info is online in UPS's Value-Added Services pdf - http://www.ups.com/media/en/value-added_pricing_retail.pdf - (bottom of first table). Fedex uses a similar system. Here's an article about a recent shipping insurance rate hike by both companies - http://www.paaa.com/wordpress/?p=204 If you want more than that, call and ask. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperland Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 With UPS, you can declare whatever value you want up to %50K. To be insured for the declared value, in case of damage over $100, you must buy enough insurance to cover your declared value. The first $100 of declared value is insured by UPS through the shipping charge. Every $100 in excess valuation over the initial $100 is $0.90 to insure, minimum insurance charge for excess valuation is $1.80. Also, you have to support your declared value with documentation - sales receipt, appraisal, etc. Even after all this, you can still get denied a damage claim based on packaging or fraud. In case you want to read this - the info is online in UPS's Value-Added Services pdf - http://www.ups.com/media/en/value-added_pricing_retail.pdf - (bottom of first table). Fedex uses a similar system. Here's an article about a recent shipping insurance rate hike by both companies - http://www.paaa.com/wordpress/?p=204 If you want more than that, call and ask. . Thank you. If you read the 11 page UPS document, you will see absolutely no mention of the word "insurance" They do not mention it. If they do, please point that out to me. The other link is no help. It doesn't say that Fedex sells insurance either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperland Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Thanks for sharing the very interesting links, especially the second one with supporting video. "Declared Value" is certainly a different ballgame. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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