J35 or EPI Masterbilt

[brannon67]

Guys, please help me out here. I have a chance(funds) to get either a Gibson J35 or an Epi Masterbilt. I know the difference between Gibson, and Epi, Im not a beginner, I have been playing for over 30 years now. Have played cheap, and expensive guitars, and I know the difference. I have two Gibson J45s one old, and one newer. I know the Masterbilts are great guitars, and I also know the J35 is a great playing, sounding and priced guitar for a guitar with the Gibson logo on its headstock. I dont know If I want to spen $1530 on a J35 or $650 for a Masterbilt a USA vs a China made guitar. What do you guys think?

[j45nick]

The J-35 has gotten good reviews here, but to some extent it's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

I'm curious, however, as to why you would want to add another mahogany slope J to a stable that already includes two J-45's. Granted that most reviews say the J-35 is tonally different from the J-45, but they are still going to be more similar to each other than they are different from each other.

[brannon67]

The J-35 has gotten good reviews here, but to some extent it's and apples to oranges comparison.

 

I'm curious, however, as to why you would want to add another mahogany slope J to a stable that already includes two J-45's. Granted that most reviews say the J-35 is tonally different from the J-45, but they are still going to be more similar to each other than they are different from each other.

True, you have a point there. I was looking at the Adv Jumbo, but cant get used to the longer scale.Plus, its almost $1000 more.

[j45nick]

True, you have a point there. I was looking at the Adv Jumbo, but cant get used to the longer scale.Plus, its almost $1000 more.

 

 

Advanced Jumbos seem to depreciate faster than any other Gibson, and you can frequently get a late-model used one in perfect condition for less than $2000. Seriously.

 

Now that will be a different animal from your J-45!

 

I think they just aren't popular. Most people looking for a long-scale rosewood jumbo flat-top gravitate to the D-28.

 

Not sure why a scale that is only 3/4" longer should be a serious hurdle. I have one long-scale Gibson (L-7), and it only takes a few minutes to adjust to the scale difference.

 

I wouldn't buy a new AJ, knowing the depreciation hit you will experience, but used, they are a great value.

[brannon67]

Yeah, I know what you mean, The Advanced Jumbos did not do so hot for some reason. They are nice guitars.

[MissouriPicker]

The Masterbilts are a sweet line of guitars, but all things being equal I'd have to go with the Gibby. I've got two Epiphones right now. One a Masterbilt EF500 something -or-other and a Pr5. Both are nice guitars and easy to play, but their not Gibsons.

[MR GIBS]

The J-35 has gotten good reviews here, but to some extent it's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

I'm curious, however, as to why you would want to add another mahogany slope J to a stable that already includes two J-45's. Granted that most reviews say the J-35 is tonally different from the J-45, but they are still going to be more similar to each other than they are different from each other.

 

I agree 100% with that.

brannon67,

 

I have a Gibson J35, I have a Masterbilt AJ500 Rosewood too.

The Gibson J35 is a very easy to play on guitar (for me). But I really don't see the reason for you to buy that thing - you already have two J45 guitars... really the j35 is NOT a j45 but again...

The Masterbilt AJ500 Rosewood is also a very good instrument and a very easy to play. The neck of that thing is perfect for me. I gave this Masterbilt to a friend of mine who doesn't have an all solid wood metalstring guitar and we are playing together in a grup and I was pissed of his cheep chinese crap sounding geetars, and I have 10 guitars, so I can give one to a friend, but believe me - the Masterbilt AJ500 Rosewood is a very good sounding guitar. Matter of fact it is chinese and you WILL have problems with the setup.

Reading again what you write I conclude that you just WANT A NEW GUITAR. So why don't you consider some J200? Will be VERY different from yours. Yes, it costs more. And it worths every cent.

[EuroAussie]

I played that Masterbuilt a few weeks ago and was really impressed by the rich, yet articulate tone. Really impressed. Id be tempted to go for that one due to the warmth and depth of tone. I have to admit the more I play the J-35 the less appealing it becomes based on its rather bright and thinnish tone.

[MorrisrownSal]

I gave my son an AJ500R. It is great. I like the AJ500M even better, and am on the lookout for one.

 

However they need care in buying. There are a lot of "seconds" out there, and they are in general discontinued because of warranty issues for things like twisted necks... Buy a good one though, and man -They are an incredible guitar at any price.

 

I do agree that if you are just looking for a good new guitar to complement what you have, then go different! There is a Martin 0000-28 GE that is for sale on AGF. Asking $1850. Asking. Or look for a Martin M21 Steve Earle.... There is also a near new Martin D17M for sale on UMGF for $1250. That is the nicest new Martin model I have played in years. New they run about $1400.

[emmonsh]

I have owned both over the years. j 35 now. not even close. the epi isn't in the same league

[geelinus]

Ask yourself how much disposable income you have and what the guitar will be used for.

 

Consider also if you think you may wish to ever sell the guitar at some point. Resale value is a consideration.

 

Finally, consider: If you buy the Epi, will you still be lusting for the Gibson - and then consider the opposite scenario.

 

The answers to those questions should lead you to the correct purchase.

 

 

Good luck! Merry Christmas! And don't forget to post pics.

[mountainpicker]

I never gave the Epiphones much thought and then I saw this:

 

 

and some others in the series. Usually you see Russ Barenberg with his '40's era Gibson J-45. But he does this series with an Epiphone and it sounds pretty good. I figure he has an ear so...There are a lot of great guitars coming out of China, but like anything else you have to compare. I wouldn't (and haven't) automatically dismiss a Chinese instrument without playing some first.

[j45nick]

I never gave the Epiphones much thought and then I saw this:

 

 

and some others in the series. Usually you see Russ Barenberg with his '40's era Gibson J-45. But he does this series with an Epiphone and it sounds pretty good. I figure he has an ear so...There are a lot of great guitars coming out of China, but like anything else you have to compare. I wouldn't (and haven't) automatically dismiss a Chinese instrument without playing some first.

 

 

I've given up being impressed when geniuses like Russ Barenberg play less-expensive guitars. He could play a cardboard box strung with monofilament and it would sound great.

 

It also helps that he's tuned down. It makes almost any guitar sound like a totally different instrument if you are used to hearing standard EADGBE tuning with A440.

 

Having said that, what really matters is how any instrument plays, and how it sounds to each individual.

 

If I were to buy any conventional Chinese-made guitar, it would probably be an Epiphone. But I just bring myself to jump that hurdle. Yes, I'm a guitar snob.

[Red 333]

Which Masterbilt are you considering? If you're looking to add new color to your tonal arsenal, there are Masterbilts that may provide that better than the J-35, which is a very close cousin to the J-45's you already have.

 

I have four Masterbilts along with 10 Gibsons, and I find the Epis good compliments to the Gibbys, but not necessarily duplicative or derivative.

 

For instance, I think the AJ-500M is a fine guitar, and although a mahogany slope shoulder design, it has a very deep, but much spongier bottom end than a J-45 or similar, which tends to have a more defined and wiry bass response. There's also a rosewood version of this guitar, the AJ-500R, which I find is frighteningly AJ-ish, albiet with a softer attack. Someone once described the Masterbilts as more Martin-sounding than Gibson. I would describe them as being more choral, while the Gibsons usually exhibit more clarity string to string.

 

The Masterbilt line offer(ed) some body sizes and configurations not generally offered by Gibson. The EF models are similar to Martin 00 bodies, and have wide fretboards and flatter necks to accommodate fingerpicking easier, so there's that.

 

There were also a couple of rosewood and cedar models which were excellent. I have the 12-fret AJ-500RC, and wouldn't part with it for anything. It's outstanding, and with a v neck as chunky as that on my J-45 Legend.

 

The square-shouldered maple AJ500P is another outstanding model, and would most certainly provide a whole different sonic palette than the J-35/45.

 

Red 333

[GuitarLight]

I never gave the Epiphones much thought and then I saw this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0wCwBXfMx4

 

and some others in the series. Usually you see Russ Barenberg with his '40's era Gibson J-45. But he does this series with an Epiphone and it sounds pretty good. I figure he has an ear so...There are a lot of great guitars coming out of China, but like anything else you have to compare. I wouldn't (and haven't) automatically dismiss a Chinese instrument without playing some first.

 

I own this AJ Masterbilt model in the video, AJ-500R and also the AJ-500M and they are both a Masterpiece. There is no guitar in the world at any price, that either one can not compete with. My guess is that this is the reason Gibson/Epiphone dis-continued them as well as almost all other Masterbilt models. These Masterbilt guitars are just too good to keep on the open market at $500 to $600 ... not enough people would ever pay $2000 or $3000 for anything else, and the good word on Masterbilt guitars was spread world wide.. Result...Gibson shut Masterbilt down.

[milod]

I'll agree with guitarlight... the Masterbilts are IMHO right there in terms of player value with Martins and Gibsons at double the price tag - and yeah, I also have the impression they're discontinued for exactly that reason. I have a Masterbilt AJ500ME that works very well for the reasons I purchased it.

 

OTOH, the J35 has the shorter scale. That may be a plus or minus. Where I live, finding a guitar to play before purchase is nearly impossible in practical terms. I'll not pay a Gibson price for something I've not had an opportunity to play.

 

That said, neither would be my main player for several reasons. Mostly for what I do and my playing geometry, the bigger box is comfortable enough for strumming and bass runs and such, but not for the fingerpicking I do 99 percent of the time. I think the J35 would be slightly more comfortable with the shorter scale, but... ain't had an opportunity to play one.

 

The guitars I play most, either at home or "out," are 16-inch larger bouts that are relatively small. Think ES175 for general size. Believe it or not, the PR5e Epiphone, a low end instrument all-laminated, is my #1 flattop regardless of price, precisely because of its size. Were it a slightly shorter scale and solid wood and I could give it a play first, I'd own it. The AE stuff is typical for anything current in that it's flimsy compared to electric guitars, but as I've written elsewhere, some Brit music vid pros didn't know the guitar but were impressed with the sound.

 

So... regardless of "quality" of a given instrument, I think "we" often tend to ignore playability issues of a given picker that simply makes playing easier and more fluid up to his/her capability. E.g., I just fly along with "Last Steam Engine Train" on the cheapie and have to work to do it on a dread-size regardless of scale.

 

m

[62burst]

Some VERY good information being contributed to this thread, thanks to all- where's Buc's Chewing Popcorn avatar when you need it? But before the GAS builds to a dangerous level of contagion, allow me to re-submit J-45Nick's admonition re: great sounds coming from economical guitars when in the hands of great musicians. In a Singer, not the Song, Fight in the Dog vs Dog in the Fight- way, if you will. What was that one sig line I'd seen someplace… Less eBay, More Mel Bay? Now, I only have to keep that in mind for myself .

[brannon67]

I would love a Masterbilt AJ500R, but I dont want a used refurbished one, unless I played it, lisrtened to it, and had it looked over by a good luthier for any neck problems,etc....All Epi MAsterbilt has out now is the smaller body finger style guitar and the DR500mce models. I was thinking about the DR model. I dont have a cutaway guitar. I prefer slope shoulder, but the DR cutaway would be different. Just dont know If I trust the shadow and Nano PU. HEard some bad things about them.

[milod]

with reference to the dual pup setup on the Masterbilts that have them.

 

My AJ500me works very nicely. No problems at all. A marvelous sound through several of my amps.

 

But honestly, with all the little wires in there and given that IMHO none of the AE preamp setups are built all that well regardless of cost, I could see where with some heavy shaking around in transit or wherever, one might have problems.

 

OTOH, I also can see that it appears Gib/Epi folks tend to be very, very critical if things ain't perfect.

 

My hope is that the Masterbilt has woods in the neck that have aged to the point of a degree of stability because as a player and in terms of sound whether played acoustic or plugged in, it's about as good as it gets and forget the price tag or name on the top.

 

As for giving much of the credit for the sound of a guitar to the picker, there's also the opposite perspective. One of the longtime members of the forum, Matthew Sear, told a tale of a very good classical player and teacher who was very impressed with the sound of one of his students' guitars. But Sear's tale is that the teacher went to play that marvelous-sounding guitar and it just plain didn't sound as good with him playing it.

 

I think technique does play a role, but also the general geometry of the player and how he/she holds the thing and the effect that may have on the wood and geometry of the guitar. I note, for example, that the traditional "classical guitar" seated position leaves the instrument being cradled by somewhat different body areas on different players regardless that, in theory, all are touching it in the same position. I cannot believe that will not affect the instrument and how it vibrates and projects.

 

m

[Dave F]

Buy what makes you happy.

If neither is grabbing you keep saving until you find the one you really want.

Sounds like you already have some nice guitars.

[zombywoof]

 

If I were to buy any conventional Chinese-made guitar, it would probably be an Epiphone. But I just bring myself to jump that hurdle. Yes, I'm a guitar snob.

 

 

I am in the same boat. Not saying it is logical but I have yet to buy any offshore-built guitar and pretty much dismiss even the notion. Put an Epi Masterbilt and Harmony Sovereign next to one another and I will immediately grab the Harmony. That said, the guitar that has come closest to getting me to break my fast was a used Epi IB Texan and that is taking into account the skinny butt neck.

[ParlourMan]

I am in the same boat. Not saying it is logical but I have yet to buy any offshore-built guitar and pretty much dismiss even the notion. Put an Epi Masterbilt and Harmony Sovereign next to one another and I will immediately grab the Harmony. That said, the guitar that has come closest to getting me to break my fast was a used Epi IB Texan and that is taking into account the skinny butt neck.

 

Nope, it isn't logical... Still it is a very common misconception among Americans that the US is the only country that can build a guitar. It really isn't.

[MR GIBS]

Nope, it isn't logical... Still it is a very common misconception among Americans that the US is the only country that can build a guitar. It really isn't.

 

Yes. I have two acoustics made for me by my bulgarian luthier. Amazing instruments. The guitars made in the USA are great, but there is a whole world outside. Master guitar builders live everywhere.

[EuroAussie]

Nope, it isn't logical... Still it is a very common misconception among Americans that the US is the only country that can build a guitar. It really isn't.

 

Furch does better Martin than Martin does Martin.

[milod]

The Chinese made stringed instruments long before Europeans had their languages in written form. Fine cabinetry long was a specialty.

 

Guitars weren't made in modern form until quite recently; changes in technology of strings, especially, brought major changes in the instrument in the 1800s that evolved into the Martins and Gibsons of the modern era; then roughly concurrent with another sweeping change in technology, brought us the electric instrument and more general availability of affordable amplification.

 

I've played Harmony Sovereigns and Harmony Classicals and archtops - and still have one electric archtop. They were IMHO far over-engineered due to lesser quality components than one would have expected from a Martin or Gibson. Early imports from Asia, notably from Japan, Inc., were horrid. The motorcycles and automobiles were a sad joke. The earlier toys and other products almost literally might have the paint scraped from them so you could see what kind of beer can had been used.

 

OTOH, Asian products in the west traditionally had been of high quality goods initially due to the high costs of transportation. Those "luxury goods" reflected high quality both of materials and workmanship. Porcelains at varying levels of quality have long been a staple of that trade as well, regardless of their weight.

 

One must admit that by the mid 1700s it appeared obvious that China was seen as a producer of high quality goods at relatively low cost - and that was seen by Europeans as reflecting a culture in entropy to be exploited one way or another, not as an equal. That continued until post WWII and decades of Chinese turmoil.

 

Now? Don't kid yourself, a pride in craftsman regardless of politics or even economic factors compared to the West remains.

 

Don't get me wrong, these comments are not a "sales pitch" for any product from China, although it seems that increasingly we westerners to give up our own factories to give in to the Chinese system and allow more and more types of manufacturing of all quality levels to reside there instead of in our own nations.

 

I've stated before and shall again: The Epi is an incredible example of Gibson designs manufactured exceptionally well and at incredible price points. The Gibson is an incredible instrument made with increasing handwork up the pricing scale made by skilled craftsmen in America.

 

As some of our European brothers have noted, there are more than a few Europeans capable of crafting fine instruments. However, one doesn't see currently the degree of high quality mass-market guitars to match Epi or Squier in Europe - nor as far as I can tell, even the larger market manufacturing of guitars as Fender, Martin and Gibson.

 

Harmony guitars?

 

Their neck designs in the 50s and early 60s at least were horrid, IMHO, unless one is wedded to the concept of a baseball bat shape.

 

Yes, my electric Harmony archtop from the '50s has really nice and unique qualities through an amp regardless that it wasn't a high end instrument - but that neck is horrid and the reason I seldom play the instrument. That's why the Japanese imports, especially, were seen as equal to or better than the Harmonies and Kays made in the US - and to a large degree why those companies are no longer with us.

 

m