awel Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hi, I am looking for a new guitar, and even if I dont like the Etune and the boost (useless with my setup), I really like the P90 at neck and the fact that you can split pickup could be usefull in some case and I find SG futura very nice looking specially in inverness green :) On the other hand I have read a lot of good things about the PRS S2 and the single cut seems very nice as well. So, can I have your honest opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Rating the SG Futura the lesser evil isn't enough for me, so I didn't vote. Honestly, I would want none of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 A PRS SE is about as exciting as a silver Honda Accord. The SG on the other hand is a stunner. The ETune system is super cool and the boost is a handy thing to have. Plus.... it's GREEN with P-90s! What's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awel Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Rating the SG Futura the lesser evil isn't enough for me, so I didn't vote. Honestly, I would want none of these. Hi Capmaster, Could you elaborate a bit more your position? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 A PRS SE is about as exciting as a silver Honda Accord. The SG on the other hand is a stunner. The ETune system is super cool and the boost is a handy thing to have. Plus.... it's GREEN with P-90s! What's not to like? He was referring to the (relatively) new S2 range, not the SE range. Bodies/necks Made in America like the Core line (they don't have the amazing carved tops, they're an assymetrical bevelled top), and all hardware (except the tuners) are Korean like the SE's. They retail around the $1200-$1300 mark. -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 But in my honest opinion, which is shared by many of my peers who I have the utmost respect for, if you're thinking of buying a PRS S2; look for a used Core line PRS. Around here I can usually find at least half a dozen Singlecuts or DGT's for around the $1300-$1400 mark. That said, if you're the type who likes to upgrade stuff anyways, the S2's feel just like a real PRS and sound great acoustically (though not as "big" sounding as some of the Core line guitars I've played). -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awel Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 But in my honest opinion, which is shared by many of my peers who I have the utmost respect for, if you're thinking of buying a PRS S2; look for a used Core line PRS. Around here I can usually find at least half a dozen Singlecuts or DGT's for around the $1300-$1400 mark. That said, if you're the type who likes to upgrade stuff anyways, the S2's feel just like a real PRS and sound great acoustically (though not as "big" sounding as some of the Core line guitars I've played). -Ryan you're lucky to live where you live here in Belgium, a used core PRS is often more than 2000$ (around 2000€ so that means around 2500$) :( a new core one is around 3000€, for that price I will definitivly go for R8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 you're lucky to live where you live here in Belgium, a used core PRS is often more than 2000$ (around 2000€ so that means around 2500$) :( a new core one is around 3000€, for that price I will definitivly go for R8 Ouch, I'd probably still go for the S2 then. Very solid guitars. -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krock Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 He was referring to the (relatively) new S2 range, not the SE range. Bodies/necks Made in America like the Core line (they don't have the amazing carved tops, they're an assymetrical bevelled top), and all hardware (except the tuners) are Korean like the SE's. They retail around the $1200-$1300 mark. -Ryan Tuners are also Korean which are copied from the phase II lockers. But tbh, that shouldnt really matter because they seem to hold steady and the guitars are getting great reviews http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/prs-s2-singlecut-596856 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Tuners are also Korean which are copied from the phase II lockers. But tbh, that shouldnt really matter because they seem to hold steady and the guitars are getting great reviews http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/prs-s2-singlecut-596856 My bad on the tuners, but yeah, most locking tuners will do the job regardless of where they're made. -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hi Capmaster, Could you elaborate a bit more your position? :) OK, but this bit will be a somewhat more extensive one... First, I agree with you and don't like either boost option and MinE-Tune system. The boost is useless for my setup, too, and the MinE-Tune corrupts the SG's weight balance through increasing neck heaviness. I also wouldn't want another "new" Gibson pickup due to my bad experiences with Jim DeCola's designs. Developing pickups takes indeep knowledge and experience as well as good hearing when playing and drawing the correct conclusions. The latter obviously didn't happen, so I did it myself. Mine has been the use of third party pickups being way ahead since Gibson isn't offering any replacements in these particular cases. Ironically, they sell them in instruments! As you might think, these designs are several decades old. Don't get me wrong, I stayed stock on fifteen Gibsons and modified just two, but these came featuring new DeCola designed pickups. I fear he fooled around with the Futura's P-90 design, too, as he did with the P-90SR and P-90ST Melody Maker pickups. They are failures beyond adjustment IMHO, just begging for replacement. There are many fine Gibson SG models offered at the moment which I would clearly prefer over the Futura. They sadly seem to discontinue the Tribute series and the Supra, lucky to own one since it is the best sounding "acoustic" guitar I ever owned. However, there still are very great ones. The SG 2014 Standard is a big leap ahead with its coil split abilities. Oddly one has to pay for the MinE-Tune system even in case of removing it later for better balance... As for the PRS S2, first thing would have to be replacing the wraparound tailpiece with one featuring intonation adjustability. I experienced that checking out a badly intonating guitar at a dealer is just as bad. :blink: So one would have to install a replacement or have it installed for just trying it. Same is valid before deciding on keeping or returning - not nice. At this point I have to say that I am a player and my guitars have to be players, too. None of my axes is a wall art. Beyond lawsuits and sentences, the PRS S2 is just some kind of a Les Paul copy, and there are lots of better ones for much less money if you count Epiphone LPs as copies. I love my top-level Epi LP featuring Gibson pickups as well as all of my Gibson LPs and talk stock equipment here. In contrary, I never bonded with any PRS guitar. For decades, there hasn't been a single one "talking to me" when playing it at a dealer. Most of my pals playing electric guitar are former PRS owners, nobody owns one actually. They all traded theirs despite of big losses and switched to Gibson and Fender. Finally, when thinking about PRS in general, I decided to go with the originals instead. Besides others like Fender Telecasters, Gibson SGs and L6Ses, I play Gibson Les Paul and Fender Stratocaster guitars, the latter as Floyd Rose versions exclusively. To me a PRS never has been the real thing. Hope I elaborated my opinion comprehensively enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 "A PRS SE is about as exciting as a silver Honda Accord." -Searcy. :lol: That translates so well! ...more interesting than a white van then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 A PRS SE is about as exciting as a silver Honda Accord. The SG on the other hand is a stunner. The ETune system is super cool and the boost is a handy thing to have. Plus.... it's GREEN with P-90s! What's not to like? Thank you...I laughed out loud. I even had a sparkle green Japanese System III Strat once, lovely guitar. I'd get the one with the set neck......and P90s.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awel Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 OK, but this bit will be a somewhat more extensive one... First, I agree with you and don't like either boost option and MinE-Tune system. The boost is useless for my setup, too, and the MinE-Tune corrupts the SG's weight balance through increasing neck heaviness. I also wouldn't want another "new" Gibson pickup due to my bad experiences with Jim DeCola's designs. Developing pickups takes indeep knowledge and experience as well as good hearing when playing and drawing the correct conclusions. The latter obviously didn't happen, so I did it myself. Mine has been the use of third party pickups being way ahead since Gibson isn't offering any replacements in these particular cases. Ironically, they sell them in instruments! As you might think, these designs are several decades old. Don't get me wrong, I stayed stock on fifteen Gibsons and modified just two, but these came featuring new DeCola designed pickups. I fear he fooled around with the Futura's P-90 design, too, as he did with the P-90SR and P-90ST Melody Maker pickups. They are failures beyond adjustment IMHO, just begging for replacement. There are many fine Gibson SG models offered at the moment which I would clearly prefer over the Futura. They sadly seem to discontinue the Tribute series and the Supra, lucky to own one since it is the best sounding "acoustic" guitar I ever owned. However, there still are very great ones. The SG 2014 Standard is a big leap ahead with its coil split abilities. Oddly one has to pay for the MinE-Tune system even in case of removing it later for better balance... As for the PRS S2, first thing would have to be replacing the wraparound tailpiece with one featuring intonation adjustability. I experienced that checking out a badly intonating guitar at a dealer is just as bad. :blink: So one would have to install a replacement or have it installed for just trying it. Same is valid before deciding on keeping or returning - not nice. At this point I have to say that I am a player and my guitars have to be players, too. None of my axes is a wall art. Beyond lawsuits and sentences, the PRS S2 is just some kind of a Les Paul copy, and there are lots of better ones for much less money if you count Epiphone LPs as copies. I love my top-level Epi LP featuring Gibson pickups as well as all of my Gibson LPs and talk stock equipment here. In contrary, I never bonded with any PRS guitar. For decades, there hasn't been a single one "talking to me" when playing it at a dealer. Most of my pals playing electric guitar are former PRS owners, nobody owns one actually. They all traded theirs despite of big losses and switched to Gibson and Fender. Finally, when thinking about PRS in general, I decided to go with the originals instead. Besides others like Fender Telecasters, Gibson SGs and L6Ses, I play Gibson Les Paul and Fender Stratocaster guitars, the latter as Floyd Rose versions exclusively. To me a PRS never has been the real thing. Hope I elaborated my opinion comprehensively enough. Thank you :) I totally agree with you I ve had a lot of different brand but I always come back to my Fender and Gibson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FennRx Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 A PRS SE is about as exciting as a silver Honda Accord. The SG on the other hand is a stunner. The ETune system is super cool and the boost is a handy thing to have. Plus.... it's GREEN with P-90s! What's not to like? I will respectfully disagree. I purchased an SE Cu24 last November for $400. I even compared it to several S2 Cu24s. There was no discernible difference in tone or playability. The fit and finish was outstanding and the fretwork made the Gibson USA line look amateurish. I also compared an SE245 to an SE Bernie Marsden, two core SC250s and a LP Traditional and the 245 was the clear winner in terms of tone. I can only imagine what it would have sounded like with a good set of PAF clones like WCRs or Throbaks. The SE line packs a tremendous bang for your buck. PRS really hit it out of the park. No Korean or Chinese Epiphone that I have played in 20 years could hold a candle to the SEs I've tried. And it's a great marketing strategy too because people will think "If an SE sounds and plays this well for $400-$700, I bet a $3000 model will be out of this world". As for the OP, I was very much interested in the S2 Singlecut, but they are like a unicorn- no one has any in stock. I ended up getting a super deal on a core SC245- I paid less for it than what a new S2 costs. If you're looking to spend $1400 on an S2, look for a used core model. I have seen several flametop SCs on ebay and elsewhere in the $1500 range plus or minus $200. $0.02 from a Historic LP snob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblooded Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 If buying new, I'd go with a PRS S2, but it would be the Starla single cut model with a bigsby. That or a nice used USA PRS model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 As for the PRS S2, first thing would have to be replacing the wraparound tailpiece with one featuring intonation adjustability. I experienced that checking out a badly intonating guitar at a dealer is just as bad. :blink: I don't get people who think that regular wraparound bridges don't intonate. Maybe on some cheap Chinese POS where the factory put the bridge in the wrong place, but on any decent guitar, a regular wraparound tailpiece is quite intonatable. There's a little allen screw on either end of the tailpiece, which push against the posts to angle the bridge or move it closer or further from the posts. Any half-decent tech can intonate a wraparound bridge. Heck, I wouldn't even call myself an Amateur tech and I can intonate one of those things. You don't see people complaining about fixed, compensated saddles on their acoustics... -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I don't get people who think that regular wraparound bridges don't intonate. Maybe on some cheap Chinese POS where the factory put the bridge in the wrong place, but on any decent guitar, a regular wraparound tailpiece is quite intonatable. There's a little allen screw on either end of the tailpiece, which push against the posts to angle the bridge or move it closer or further from the posts. Any half-decent tech can intonate a wraparound bridge. Heck, I wouldn't even call myself an Amateur tech and I can intonate one of those things. You don't see people complaining about fixed, compensated saddles on their acoustics... -Ryan The latter is sadly not true. A friend of mine is working since months on putting a string set together for his new master built classical guitar to achieve an intonation proper for professional standards. Octaves just sound bad at 5th/7th resp. 5th/8th fret. All the professional classical players I know personally use strings different from those intended to make one particular string set for intonation reasons. Acoustic guitar strings of heavier gauges and with wounds softer than steel often show imprecisions tolerable for some requirements at the lower frets when tweaking tuning a bit. Heavier gauge electric guitar strings with wound G3rd are easier to handle, too, in most cases, but most fixed saddle bridges are made for using sets where the G3rd is not the shortest string as wounds typically are. Never met a fixed bridge guitar which was sufficiently compensatable. "Quite intonatable" by the two length adjustment screws always means somehow compromised. Luckily the makers of fine guitars know and put six adjustable saddles on them. Intonation adjustments are impredictable even for just one particular guitar model with a given set of strings. I don't know of two guitars of same make calling for the same adjustment settings with fine strings of same make. At least I do set up all of them for tone only, not for looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloon Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 . No Korean or Chinese Epiphone that I have played in 20 years could hold a candle to the SEs I've tried. And it's a great marketing strategy too because people will think "If an SE sounds and plays this well for $400-$700, I bet a $3000 model will be out of this world". $0.02 from a Historic LP snob. I own a PRS S.E. Soapbar........It's a Furlong ahead of any Epiphone/Squier/Mexican/Chinese/Korean/etc..etc...that I had/used/played/borrowed/owned...got rid of...........Gibson pickups or not. It has a stopbar wraparound......INTONATION IS SPOT ON......every string, every fret,every note. From the moment I played it.......................This guitar STAYS. EDIT. From another Gibson snob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mKwatra427 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 A PRS SE is about as exciting as a silver Honda Accord. The SG on the other hand is a stunner. The ETune system is super cool and the boost is a handy thing to have. Plus.... it's GREEN with P-90s! What's not to like? You could say the same about a Stratocaster. But that would be what they call an 'unpopular opinion' (Not dissing the Strat or Searcy here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mKwatra427 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I disagree totally and have this debate with my other guitar player in the band all the time. Two guitars dominate the Hard Rock Cafes and the The Hard Rock Hall Of Fame Museums. The Fender American Stratocaster (sad we even have to clarify that) and the Gibson Les Paul both are American rock and roll icons, both fueled more Rock N Roll than any other wanna be copy companies like PRS ESP Ibanez Jackson etc etc etc. They are the originals, the forefathers and the religious relics of our kind. This debate is so like a Chevy Ford debate, both American icons both with so much to offer and since Im a good ole boy from the midwest USA it just has to be made in USA for me. If I could I would have a Ford Mustang and a Chevy Camero in my garage, and a Gibson Les Paul and a Fender Stratocaster hanging on my wall. Sorry about that, I was completely joking My point was that it might not be apt to call the PRS dull and i personally don't think that it is at all. I agree that the Strat is undoubtedly a great guitar icon and agree with you in every one of your points. And I'm sure many people dislike Strats for whatever logical or illogical reasons. Hope there is no misinterpretation of my statement and I apologize for the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FennRx Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I disagree totally and have this debate with my other guitar player in the band all the time. Two guitars dominate the Hard Rock Cafes and the The Hard Rock Hall Of Fame Museums. The Fender American Stratocaster (sad we even have to clarify that) and the Gibson Les Paul both are American rock and roll icons, both fueled more Rock N Roll than any other wanna be copy companies like PRS ESP Ibanez Jackson etc etc etc. They are the originals, the forefathers and the religious relics of our kind. This debate is so like a Chevy Ford debate, both American icons both with so much to offer and since Im a good ole boy from the midwest USA it just has to be made in USA for me. If I could I would have a Ford Mustang and a Chevy Camero in my garage, and a Gibson Les Paul and a Fender Stratocaster hanging on my wall. sometimes, another company can do it better than the original. Ever play a Suhr or a Danocaster? Don't get me wrong, I love Gibson. But other companies can bring a lot to the table, even if they are using a borrowed design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the S2 sounds great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtV08hF7q1E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awel Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK, but this bit will be a somewhat more extensive one... First, I agree with you and don't like either boost option and MinE-Tune system. The boost is useless for my setup, too, and the MinE-Tune corrupts the SG's weight balance through increasing neck heaviness. I also wouldn't want another "new" Gibson pickup due to my bad experiences with Jim DeCola's designs. Developing pickups takes indeep knowledge and experience as well as good hearing when playing and drawing the correct conclusions. The latter obviously didn't happen, so I did it myself. Mine has been the use of third party pickups being way ahead since Gibson isn't offering any replacements in these particular cases. Ironically, they sell them in instruments! As you might think, these designs are several decades old. Don't get me wrong, I stayed stock on fifteen Gibsons and modified just two, but these came featuring new DeCola designed pickups. I fear he fooled around with the Futura's P-90 design, too, as he did with the P-90SR and P-90ST Melody Maker pickups. They are failures beyond adjustment IMHO, just begging for replacement. There are many fine Gibson SG models offered at the moment which I would clearly prefer over the Futura. They sadly seem to discontinue the Tribute series and the Supra, lucky to own one since it is the best sounding "acoustic" guitar I ever owned. However, there still are very great ones. The SG 2014 Standard is a big leap ahead with its coil split abilities. Oddly one has to pay for the MinE-Tune system even in case of removing it later for better balance... As for the PRS S2, first thing would have to be replacing the wraparound tailpiece with one featuring intonation adjustability. I experienced that checking out a badly intonating guitar at a dealer is just as bad. :blink: So one would have to install a replacement or have it installed for just trying it. Same is valid before deciding on keeping or returning - not nice. At this point I have to say that I am a player and my guitars have to be players, too. None of my axes is a wall art. Beyond lawsuits and sentences, the PRS S2 is just some kind of a Les Paul copy, and there are lots of better ones for much less money if you count Epiphone LPs as copies. I love my top-level Epi LP featuring Gibson pickups as well as all of my Gibson LPs and talk stock equipment here. In contrary, I never bonded with any PRS guitar. For decades, there hasn't been a single one "talking to me" when playing it at a dealer. Most of my pals playing electric guitar are former PRS owners, nobody owns one actually. They all traded theirs despite of big losses and switched to Gibson and Fender. Finally, when thinking about PRS in general, I decided to go with the originals instead. Besides others like Fender Telecasters, Gibson SGs and L6Ses, I play Gibson Les Paul and Fender Stratocaster guitars, the latter as Floyd Rose versions exclusively. To me a PRS never has been the real thing. Hope I elaborated my opinion comprehensively enough. Hi Capmaster, thank you for this elaborated version :) one of my fear is that, I really love SG's but they are not very well equilibrated, the head always wants to go down when playing standing up so the minitune should re-inforce this I guess? anyone that has a sg with minitune could answer perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hi Capmaster, thank you for this elaborated version :) one of my fear is that, I really love SG's but they are not very well equilibrated, the head always wants to go down when playing standing up so the minitune should re-inforce this I guess? anyone that has a sg with minitune could answer perhaps? Please take a look at the post of mine quoted below and the following ones: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/111222-faux-tailpiece-like-derek-trucks-sig-sg/page__view__findpost__p__1503754 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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