Cougar Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I always liked Spirit. They played at my high school and then showed up at a party later that night. Of course, Jay Ferguson was hitting on a chick I would have liked to hook up with, but hey, that's another incentive to getting a band together. Randy California's dead? Bummer. I guess I'd heard that. He was good. I always liked Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 No way that's the same progression. One's major and one's minor. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yeah, OK ....maybe "Stairway" and "Taurus" are a coincidence but I can name a dozen and a half other Led Zep direct rip offs....and this isn't the first time they were sued over "Stairway"....but I always thought "Stairway" was a rip off of Love Sculpture's "Summertime" (which was a rip off of Janis Joplin's "Summertime") ... Joplin's Summertime is George Gershwin ... From a 'fan mentality' the Spirit song isn't really great and the Zepp song is. But how would you like Zepp taking your crap song and making it better and in fact making a fortune off it? You'd want a piece of that success. I don't think the Spirit song will ever make a big splash or as big a splash as Stairway to Heaven. duh. see the problem with copyright is that it doesn't distinguish ownership as good from bad, Stairway to Heaven is on the same level as Billy Bob's Raging Fart Noises or Irish Lillith's Poetic Musings. As far as the law, that first part of Stairway to Heaven is actually part of a Spirit song ... Zepp: pay Spirit for having the part first. you copied it and did not acknowledge it, in fact you took credit for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 hmmm, didnt know that. it definately has similarities between the two. same with hotel california and jethro tulls "we used to know". they toured together and a year later Hotel California was born Wow I just listened to the Tull song and you're right. Same progression. Interesting though. Pachalbel's canon in D progression has been used so many times in popular music. When does it become plagiarism versus adapting a progression into a new song? Surely hundreds of A-D-E songs are out there, some wildly popular, with no lawsuit and/or accusations of copyright infringement. I know you can't play "da da da dum" exactly like Beethoven, change the key or the percussive way of playing it, and call it something new or can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Using Beethovens would be a form of sampling, and you sure can. The thing people seem to not get is that it isn't that you can't use something, it is that you can't use something and profit from it without paying the owner of the rights to that work. No progression or chord or series of notes is copyrighted such that you can't use it. If you change the progression or notes enough that they can't be reasonably confused within a certain amount of music(2 bars usually) with the music by the person that brings the infringement it is just fine. There's two parts.' Usually, usually now, when someone brings infringement they are usually, usually now, fairly assured that the music will be deemed confusable. Then there is the second part, having the copyright in hand. Like the last joker that took on the Stones for Brown Sugar I think. It was clearly demonstrated that the music of the Stones was confusable with his within 2 measures. Trouble was, everyone at the bar saying you wrote something does not a copyright make. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I always liked Spirit. They played at my high school and then showed up at a party later that night. Of course, Jay Ferguson was hitting on a chick I would have liked to hook up with, but hey, that's another incentive to getting a band together. Randy California's dead? Bummer. I guess I'd heard that. He was good. I always liked Spirit. me too. always loved Spirit. Randy California died in 1997 in Hawaii, saving his son from a rip current. but getting dragged away by it in the process... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Is copyright infringement like homicide with no statute of limitation? Just curious, maybe it is. Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Rush was sued by the family of Raymond Scott because the main riff of La Villa Strangiato sounded likely Scott's Powerhouse. By then it was past the statute of limitation. In this case it was 40 years later. Rush didn't knowingly steal it, but decided to give Scott's family a compensation for it. As far as Jimmy Page. The facts are clear. He stole a lot of riffs. Not just blues riffs, but actually lines. Look what happened to Vanilla Ice and Ice Ice Baby with Queen's Under Pressure. Page took a lot from Beck, but I don't think Beck really cares. Now I do also question why it took so long, but I think Page will lose this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Rush was sued by the family of Raymond Scott because the main riff of La Villa Strangiato sounded likely Scott's Powerhouse. By then it was past the statute of limitation. In this case it was 40 years later. Rush didn't knowingly steal it, but decided to give Scott's family a compensation for it. As far as Jimmy Page. The facts are clear. He stole a lot of riffs. Not just blues riffs, but actually lines. Look what happened to Vanilla Ice and Ice Ice Baby with Queen's Under Pressure. Page took a lot from Beck, but I don't think Beck really cares. Now I do also question why it took so long, but I think Page will lose this one. Yeah, I'm reading Plant's bio currently and he talks about the early Zepp and how Page treated the matter, there was Dazed and Confused which was claimed by folk singer Jake Holmes (The Above Ground Sound of; I'm Confused) and a couple of Willie Dixon rip offs on the 1'st album, You Shook Me and I Can't Quit You. Page has been said to have been dismissive, as in ignorant of the matter or probably knew blatantly and just hoped it wouldn't ever come to light. Whether times or laws were a bit different back then, probably, but nowdays you don't get away with it. There was Alexis Korner doing the Blues Inc. thing celebrating American blues and it became a popular thing for musician's to do, emmulate their favs., covers, but there's more to that, Page would have adapted the arrangements from the originals. We perceive it to be an improvement, but the law is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 The laws were in place, but rarely enforced, unless original artists were not credited, as the writer, on a recording. Even then, it wasn't like today... where the BMI/ASCAP "Nazi's" will raid even a local bar, over copyright issues, unless an annual fee is paid to those agencies. I played in cover bands, for years, with not even a hint of objection over copyright, from ANYone! In fact, a lot of the "Big guys" AKA Rock Stars, back then, felt the little garage bands were actually helping promote their music, by playing it, and not trying to "rip them off," etc. When I started playing, again (after a 30 year hiatus), ASCAP/BMI stooges seemed to be everywhere! Fining, hassling, and otherwise making it miserable for venue owners, to hire "Live Cover Bands," or even DJ's, Karaoke, or use Internet Juke Boxes, without that annual fee. First fines were hefty, and any subsequent fine was doubled each time. That was unheard of, in the '60's and 70's...at least around these parts. Now, there are venues galore, that won't even hire bands, period. And, of those who do, you'd better play unpublished "original" material. Sometimes, the braver (or crazier, depending on your point of view) veunue owners will buck the system, and hire cover bands, but they don't widely advertise it... more by word of mouth. So, it's a much different world, now, than back then. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 In fact, they didn't compose "Stairway To Heaven" themselves. The music is taken from the movie "Der Fall Lena Christ", West Germany 1968, released October 1st, 1970. Since this black & white film about a Bavarian lady writer isn't that famous, nobody ever discussed Led Zeppelin's plagiarism publicly. The composer isn't credited anywhere, see here on imdb.com: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065714/ and so the soundtrack was assumed to be free obviously. The piece appears several times in that film. Jimmy Page adopted it note for note. Is copyright infringement like homicide with no statute of limitation? Just curious, maybe it is. I didn't know about the German movie. Interesting. Rereading "Stairway To Heaven" lyrics made me shiver and shake. They likely seem to be written based on life and death of Lena Christ. Perhaps writers Robert Plant and James Patrick aka Jimmy Page knew her curriculum vitae. I couldn't find a more comprehensive reference in English, but see here: http://gff-film.de/home/en/productions/film/archive/item/der-fall-lena-christ.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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