duluthdan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Curious as to whether or not the factory has gotten better at matching tops and bridge-plates as evidenced by the bridge-plate mounting hole? If you have a Gibson, built in the last 12 months, I'd be curious as to the location of the location hole (used in assembly) on the bridge plate. ors it look like the one in the bottom of the picture, or does it get close to infringing on the pin-holes, as does the top of the picture? I'm traveling to Bozeman, gonna tour the factory again, just curious about this step in the process. The guitar on top is mine, fixed with a little insert piece of wood by the way, sounds great, so far no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Come on guys….let's see your holes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bram99 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Belly Bridge My 2009 J45-TV has the extra hole but it is far enough away from the bridge pin holes and is not a problem Rectangular Bridges My 2012 LG-2 Custom Shop has the hole right next to (in a bad way) bridge pin holes My 2013 LG-2 Mahogany Banner does not have the extra hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Come on guys….let's see your holes!! Alright... I will take a picture of my hole. Let me see if I can get my camera in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 This is my J-15 built in April.... VERY close to the D string! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm traveling to Bozeman, gonna tour the factory again, just curious about this step in the process. Please let us know what they have to say at the factory, mine looks worse than yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Oh, this will be an easy one to explain away….just wait……and look at that rough drilling at the pin holes…….wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Oh, this will be an easy one to explain away….just wait……and look at that rough drilling at the pin holes…….wow! Looks like they used a dull bit... I'll be very curious to hear what duluthdan finds out. In the meantime I'm thinking of contacting gibson myself... Too much money invested in this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Not great is it. This was discussed before , can't remember the guy who had a similar scruffy workmanship People aare gonna look at you funny when you're going into shops with a mirror on a stick to look inside brand new guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yes, this was previously discussed at great length, I believe about a year ago. At the time, I mentioned that it's always crucial to check the seating of string ends with a mirror on every guitar to prevent chewing up the bridge plate & eventually digging directly into the spruce top. It's especially important on Montana Gibsons since they use this goofy center locating hole (and sloppy drilling to boot). Clearly nothing has changed in Gibson's manufacturing process. My J-15, dated 1/2/14, has the locator hole close to the pin holes as well, and sure enough, I had to correct string placement upon my initial and immediate first string change to prevent one of the balls from falling towards the locator hole, which is what is occurring with Randmos guitar. The bridge plate on my J-15 is not as splintered as Randmos from drilling & I am comfortable with the string seating, but it will always need to be checked when strings are changed. Every Gibson model using this particularly narrow bridge design (J-15, J-29, J-35, etc) will probably be similar and should be checked. In Randmo's case, a Stewart-MacDonald reinforcement plate ("plate-mate") would be a quick fix, but it wouldn't be needed if the workmanship had been up to par. Pursuing your warranty options would be a worthwhile effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Good points there. What you say though is leading down the path where this sort of thing is acceptable. I'm not saying you're finding it acceptable though , but it's a wrong world where you're having to get mirrors out for string changes. Traditional method , the Taylor method , and now on you tube we'll be seeing the Gibson method of string change that involves mirrors and gynocology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Good points there. What you say though is leading down the path where this sort of thing is acceptable. I'm not saying you're finding it acceptable though , but it's a wrong world where you're having to get mirrors out for string changes. Checking the seating of strings on the bridge plate is a wise preventative measure on every guitar, but Gibson's current manufacturing process makes it crucial. I only find Gibson's process acceptable if it is structurally stable, and clearly some are very questionable. I personally would not accept Randmo's as is, which is why I believe he should pursue his warranty options. Do other manufacturer's do this better? Indeed they do. Ironically, I recently acquired an '05 McCartney 1964 Texan made by Terada in Japan. Not to be confused with the current "inspired by" Epi, the McCartney is an amazingly accurate nitro-finished replica of a '64 Kalamazoo Texan. Of course, I couldn't help but notice, upon my initial string change, the impeccably clean bridge plate work. No locator hole or splinters, just a beautifully thin and pristine piece of maple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 The bridge plate on my J-15 is not as splintered as Randmos from drilling & I am comfortable with the string seating, but it will always need to be checked when strings are changed. I tried to reinstall the string 3 times and it always ended up as pictured. I will call Gibson today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 The original picture at the top of this thread shows 3 interior shots. At the top is my SJ bridge-plate after the tech at MV installed the small wooden plug in the mounting hole. I was mildly surprised that he had a whole baggie of these little plugs, sending the message that this is not all that surprising or unusual? As you can see from the top image in that pic, the ball ends nearest that hole still seem to dive into that bit of off-set seating position. Big deal? I don't know. Perhaps after 10 years or so? I'm not certain that replacing a bridge plate is the best fix, or at all recommended, it would seem to me to probably invite other damage prying out a thin piece of glued wood from the top. The best fix is probably these little wooden plugs, or perhaps the "Plate-Mate" which seems to be small and not that intrusive? I will try and get a description / pictures of this step in the build process. Here's the Stew-Mac Plate-Mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 In Randmo's case, a Stewart-MacDonald reinforcement plate ("plate-mate") would be a quick fix, but it wouldn't be needed if the workmanship had been up to par. Pursuing your warranty options would be a worthwhile effort. Guys…We have to stop advising folks to repair this kind of sloppy work themselves. It's happened before, with bubbling finish problems around the sound hole, laquer on fretboards……I really feel it prolongs sloppy work from the factory if the end user is responsible for fixing these things. It excuses this type of problem. It's amazing that Dan's problem came to light over a year ago, and that bridge plate hole is still a design problem??? Beyond me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Davy Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Curious as to whether or not the factory has gotten better at matching tops and bridge-plates as evidenced by the bridge-plate mounting hole? If you have a Gibson, built in the last 12 months, I'd be curious as to the location of the location hole (used in assembly) on the bridge plate. ors it look like the one in the bottom of the picture, or does it get close to infringing on the pin-holes, as does the top of the picture? I'm traveling to Bozeman, gonna tour the factory again, just curious about this step in the process. The guitar on top is mine, fixed with a little insert piece of wood by the way, sounds great, so far no issues. The plate on my Hummingbird Pro looks like your picture number three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bram99 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I was pretty heavily involved in the old conversation about a year ago. My LG-2 has the hole near the bridge pin holes which are badly blown out because they were drilled without a backing caul. I eventually got an RMA from Gibson, but decided not to ship the guitar. My easy and completely reversable fix was to cut a small triangle shaped cover (roughly .5" x.5"x.5") out of some thin maple bridge plate material I had laying around. I just stuck it over the hole(with the bridge pins in place)using double sided tape. No major surgery, but it keeps the strings to the side and out of the hole. Not excusing the fact that it is there....just decided that I could live with it with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 The "Gibson Homecoming" is going on this week. Several of the folks are already here in Bozeman as they like to get first pick of the guitars offered for sale at Music Villa. I will make an effort to have some of them bring up all of the bridge plate concerns and get some of them to take photos of the entire process so that we can all see the exact reason for the problem, and this mess is a problem. This has gone on long enough and someone needs to step up and explain why they can't fix the issue. Well this is the week and we shall all have a better idea of how this will all work out. I will try to see if Gibson is going to consider this a warranty problem as it is obviously a problem generated by them in the building process. They will be asked about solutions to the problem. Just so you folks know. Just because it's being discussed here on the forum doesn't mean that Gibson/Montana knows about it. There can be a disconnect between customer service based in Nashville and the production team in Montana. I don't know if this is the case but rest assured. The solution will be at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 The "Gibson Homecoming" is going on this week. Several of the folks are already here in Bozeman as they like to get first pick of the guitars offered for sale at Music Villa. I will make an effort to have some of them bring up all of the bridge plate concerns and get some of them to take photos of the entire process so that we can all see the exact reason for the problem, and this mess is a problem. This has gone on long enough and someone needs to step up and explain why they can't fix the issue. Well this is the week and we shall all have a better idea of how this will all work out. I will try to see if Gibson is going to consider this a warranty problem as it is obviously a problem generated by them in the building process. They will be asked about solutions to the problem. Just so you folks know. Just because it's being discussed here on the forum doesn't mean that Gibson/Montana knows about it. There can be a disconnect between customer service based in Nashville and the production team in Montana. I don't know if this is the case but rest assured. The solution will be at hand. Problems with Gibson? ...Gee, what problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Guys…We have to stop advising folks to repair this kind of sloppy work themselves. Wily, since you referenced my mention of the Plate Mate as a self repair suggestion, I wanted to clarify by saying that my following line (which you also quote) is what I would do first if it were my guitar - explore warranty options, which I assume he has. But each of us will have decisions to make if we have a similar issue, based on our own particular set of circumstances, as in Bram99's case. How much do we feel attached to a particular instrument? Was it purchased slightly used with no warranty? Is the guitar simply stellar in every other way and you're now bonded to it? Is there a local Gibson repair-person you have confidence in? Are you comfortable addressing repair issues yourself? Etc. None of this excuses the fact that there's a problem here & the solution is long overdue - but depending on one's situation, it may be helpful to know that a simple fix, temporary or otherwise, is available. Personally, I would also consider the option of experimenting with a thin secondary plate made out of solid maple or birch. I have also seen small sheets of a strong birch laminate available (Ace hardware) in a variety of thicknesses that might be a worthwhile consideration in this application. Regardless of the route taken, it's a part of the guitar which demands that structural integrity be achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Called Gibson, I was on hold for a half hour and gave up, sitting on hold now for the last 25 minutes. In the meantime I submitted a request online, but haven't heard back.... This could take a while, but I do have the Pro Warranty from Guitar Center which should cover it. Maybe they aren't answering because they know its me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Boy Jackson Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I bought a J35 in January 2014, serial number dated it to April 5,2013. I noticed a buzzing coming from the bridge area, checked under the hood with a mirror for loose ball end and discovered the dreaded bridge location hole right between the D and G strings...took it back to the retailer,pleaded my case and was given a replacement J35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanp33 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Here it is on my HB TV. Not sure what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Here it is on my HB TV. Not sure what to think At least you have some distance from the locator hole. Pin holes a little rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Here it is on my HB TV. Not sure what to think. Don't see anything scary in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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