DRC Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hey Dan, thanks for that informative post. Among the many things I love about my J-35 is the extremely accurate intonation no matter where it's capoed. I'd love to tour the Bozeman shop sometime. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Oh, BTW, I perused the rack of parts, all the bridgeplates are solid Maple. no doubt. Again, truly impressed by how much hand work goes into these builds. No robots, saw two CNC machines, I think, (I took the tour twice in a row). All the folks I saw seemed to exude a good deal of pride and know-how in what they were doing - it truly is a vey impressive process, and folks. I can honestly see where the Gibson guitars get their personalities - no two can be exactly alike. They're just all good. Very enlightening tour, highly recommended if you ever get to Bozeman - but you can't just drop in, I suspect a good deal of prior arrangements and agreement would be required, the shop floor is a crowded busy busy place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Oh, BTW, I perused the rack of parts, all the bridgeplates are solid Maple. no doubt. Again, truly impressed by how much hand work goes into these builds. No robots, saw two CNC machines, I think, (I took the tour twice in a row). All the folks I saw seemed to exude a good deal of pride and know-how in what they were doing - it truly is a vey impressive process, and folks. I can honestly see where the Gibson guitars get their personalities - no two can be exactly alike. They're just all good. Very enlightening tour, highly recommended if you ever get to Bozeman - but you can't just drop in, I suspect a good deal of prior arrangements and agreement would be required, the shop floor is a crowded busy busy place. I LIKE the fact that no two are alike……unlike some manufacturer's where they ALL are alike….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hey, Dan! You are a real "top shelf" guy in my book. You asked some legitimate questions at the start of this thread, but you didn't sit back and depend on others for the answers. You went out and found the answers yourself. I sincerely appreciate you doing that. I suspected and hoped there was a reasonable explanation, but hell, I don't know much about the inside of a guitar...lol...so I was kind of worried about some of the explanations I was reading. Again, thanks for the detailed explanation. You explained it in language I can understand............ My five Gibsons (soon to be six) are all different, and just like my women, I like them that way. And Jeremy, thanks for your input also. You're diplomatic and calm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hey, Dan! You are a real "top shelf" guy in my book. You asked some legitimate questions at the start of this thread, but you didn't sit back and depend on others for the answers. You went out and found the answers yourself. I sincerely appreciate you doing that. I suspected and hoped there was a reasonable explanation, but hell, I don't know much about the inside of a guitar...lol...so I was kind of worried about some of the explanations I was reading. Again, thanks for the detailed explanation. You explained it in language I can understand............ My five Gibsons (soon to be six) are all different, and just like my women, I like them that way. And Jeremy, thanks for your input also. You're diplomatic and calm. Ditto!! Very digestible explanation of a most-interesting process. Thanks, Dan And a fine "aha!" was had by all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 ... the location holes are drilled in the guitar tops (there's one up under your fingerboard too) ... Hate to pick on anything in your nice explanation, but there are actually two registration holes on the bottom-side of the fretboard and two matching holes in the neck. The dowels inserted in these ensure accurate location of the fretboard relative to the neck. Also, you neglected to mention that both Josh (the acting GM) and Don explicitly said that they do not believe that the current design will result in excessive bridge plate wear but, if they're wrong, "Gibson will take care of the problem for you [owners]". -- Bob R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Also, you neglected to mention that both Josh (the acting GM) and Don explicitly said that they do not believe that the current design will result in excessive bridge plate wear but, if they're wrong, "Gibson will take care of the problem for you [owners]". From a business perspective, Gibson's wait & see approach is no surprise. As long as the instrument's top does not crack, or the bridge does not lift or crack from a compromised bridge plate, Gibson will consider the guitar structurally sound. If structural damage does occur, it will be time to invoke your lifetime warranty - if you are the original purchaser (and happen to live in the USA). Having had a very positive experience with Gibson's warranty department, there is certainly some comfort in that. But aside from an explanation of the rationale for the locator hole (including the fretboard holes) which many of us were already aware of, there is unfortunately no mention of an effort to improve the execution of the construction process in an effort to maintain as structurally sound of a bridgeplate as possible. I would be more impressed if the response was, "Yes, we will look at improving our technique regarding the overall bridgeplate assembly process." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 At homecoming, was there any mention of how to clean up the quality of the drilled bridge pin holes? Perhaps having the workers drill more slowly, or use sharper tools? How about moving that bridge plate hole a little south of the bridge pin holes which would eliminate having to take care of the customers in the future. I really think that those bridge pin holes may be the bigger problem. Where the splinters are, if it happens to coincide with the place the ball end of the string will sit, well, of course, that will cause bridge plate wear faster than if the plate was flat and non-damaged by the drilling process??? I mean if you make little changes now, the problems won't be as big in the future….??? It sounds like Gibson is saying, "we will keep doing the work this way and if there are any problems in the future, we will take care of it."…..I just don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 1402288144[/url]' post='1528713']You'll need to ask...ThemisSal...it's a pic from his post on the UMGF............... Yup... My guitar. I think the bridge plate is sloppy. And I think the install of the transducers was also sloppy. The guitar sounds great, and it guess I am just busier than I want to be, so I haven't done anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Pardon my not reading 5 pages on bridge plate locator holes, but has anyone here had an actual problem? P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Pardon my not reading 5 pages on bridge plate locator holes, but has anyone here had an actual problem? P maybe if you've no time to read , you could look at the pictures ? no one has had anything collapse , but Randmos strings aren't seating properly. I'd call that a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 After calming down, after seeing my newest Gibsons hole isn't as far away and clean as the 2 older ones and reading DuluthDans explanation, I feel better.Looked more closely at Randmo's picture. It appears to me that the locator hole is in fact plugged and has some glue (epoxy) around it. Also, it appears the the string ball that is off to the side should be able to be placed in the hole straighter and kept in the groove of the pin with more manipulation than might be required for the other five. Since this is not an older guitar where the hole has been mis-sharpen by always putting the string I the wrong position, the hole should be round enough that the string can be coaxed into the right place. It might require placing this string before the others so you have room to work with down there. Unless or until a string actually moves into the locator hole, it is by process of elimination, in the bridge pin hole, right? Random has only been playing for 3 months as I understand it, so may not have changed strings as much as some folks here. No offense intended, of course, we were all newbies at one time or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Randmo has only been playing for 3 months as I understand it, so may not have changed strings as much as some folks here. No offense intended, of course, we were all newbies at one time or another. Not offended at all... This is all new to me. My eyesight is not the greatest either While I was at GC, I looked at another J-15, I didn't like the looks or sound, you would have a hard time prying mine away from me, bridge plate and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bram99 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Thanks for helping clarify Dan, but knowing why it is there does not make it okay that it is there in my book. On my LG-2 the combination of the locating hole and the bridge pin tear out leaves virtually no wood material in spots and the strings are always drawn to those spots. I stuck on a thin piece of bridge plate material with double side tape to divert the strings away. But I don't find comfort in knowing that the hole has gobs of epoxy there. I love Gibson guitars (more than any other brand) but I will not buy another that I cannot inspect for this defect. If I buy one online and it has the hole too close to the bridge pins, I will return it. When the major retailers start getting guitars returned for this problem, maybe Gibson will find the incentive to come up with an alternative manufacturing technique. Not trying to be a troll here, but I still think it is unacceptable and it certainly is a variable I will consider when purchasing. Here is the patch I had to put on a brand new $2000 guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't know why they don't just make the wood dowel that the fills the hole 1/4 inch longer and maybe put a little dome shape to the end so there is no hole left. Seems like a easy fix to me. If you remember back when this first came up Music Villa's repair guy made a little plug to fill in the hole in Dan's guitar. No hole? Less of a problem. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bram99 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't know why they don't just make the wood dowel that the fills the hole 1/4 inch longer and maybe put a little dome shape to the end so there is no hole left. Seems like a easy fix to me. If you remember back when this first came up Music Villa's repair guy made a little plug to fill in the hole in Dan's guitar. No hole? Less of a problem. Just sayin' That would do it...and a few extra minutes to place a backing caul when drilling string holes and the whole hole thing is resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 From a business perspective, Gibson's wait & see approach is no surprise. As long as the instrument's top does not crack, or the bridge does not lift or crack from a compromised bridge plate, Gibson will consider the guitar structurally sound. ... No, they said that excessive bridge plate wear would be repaired under warranty. But I think you missed the main point, which is that they believe there is no actual problem here, structural or tonal, and they're not going to spend any money changing the production line to "fix" a non-problem. (That the bridge plate looks kind of funky to the tiny number of goof balls like us who carefully examine the innards of their guitars does not count as a problem. :) ) They're backing that belief by a promise to do a "fix" (including who knows how many expensive warranty repairs ) if they're wrong -- which means they're pretty darn sure that they're not wrong -- Bob R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 No, they said that excessive bridge plate wear would be repaired under warranty. Hmm - that is indeed a horse of a different color. It'll be interesting to see how the threshold for an approved warranty repair plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It'll be interesting to see how the threshold for an approved warranty repair plays out. I doubt there's much risk here. The edge of the registration hole is probably harder than the maple, thanks to the adhesive, so it seems unlikely that ball ends sitting in or near the hole will cause excessive wear. But I guess we'll find out. -- Bob R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I'm with smurf here. I'd be bothered about that string twisting out of position. and I'm one of the less fussy people in here. Am a bit amazed that gibson say it's fine. It's obviously not fine. Gibson didn't say it was fine, they said he didn't have the strings in correctly, which is exactly the same conclusion I'd come to, looking at that picture. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Here's a video on my 2007 lefty sj 200 tv : Thanks for the info Dan JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Gibson didn't say it was fine, they said he didn't have the strings in correctly, which is exactly the same conclusion I'd come to, looking at that picture. P the strings aren't in properly. No arguing with that. I just reckon that I'd have trouble trying to get my strings in as wrongly as that. Can you get your bridge pins to go in their holes with the string out of its groove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Decided to install new strings, here is before and after... ...and my $200 Yamaha FG700S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Decided to install new strings, here is before and after... ...and my $200 Yamaha FG700S I mean this has to be embarrassing to someone in Gibson Quality control????!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 why's it stained ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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