fortyearspickn Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 why's it stained ? Glue, probably epoxy, from putting a wood plug/dowel into the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I was very much in the "I ain't lookin" camp for a while, having just shelled out a lot of good spending money on a new J-45 custom just a couple of months back. But it niggles at you doesn't it? What horrors lie inside there? So curiosity got the better of me and off I went today and bought a little LED inspection mirror... Well it maybe ain't the best woodworking you ever did see, but at least that mounting hole seems to be reasonably clear of the pins. Phew! So enough, back to playing Georgia, (GeeGee for short) 'cause that's what I named her :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I was very much in the "I ain't lookin" camp for a while, having just shelled out a lot of good spending money on a new J-45 custom just a couple of months back. But it niggles at you doesn't it? What horrors lie inside there? So curiosity got the better of me and off I went today and bought a little LED inspection mirror... Well it maybe ain't the best woodworking you ever did see, but at least that mounting hole seems to be reasonably clear of the pins. Phew! So enough, back to playing Georgia, (GeeGee for short) 'cause that's what I named her :) NICE guitar……herring bone I see!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 1402499164[/url]' post='1529486']I was very much in the "I ain't lookin" camp for a while, having just shelled out a lot of good spending money on a new J-45 custom just a couple of months back. But it niggles at you doesn't it? What horrors lie inside there? So curiosity got the better of me and off I went today and bought a little LED inspection mirror... Well it maybe ain't the best woodworking you ever did see, but at least that mounting hole seems to be reasonably clear of the pins. Phew! So enough, back to playing Georgia, (GeeGee for short) 'cause that's what I named her :) Looks very, very similar to J45 Custom (Koa) I got 3 weeks ago. The plugged hole in bridge the same. Angle makes it look closer than it really is. I assume yours is rosewood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I must have very low standards or something. I've been playing forever and I've never stuck a camera inside a guitar. When we get to structural problems, I'll worry. Until then, I'll choose not to even check the glue cleanup on the inside. YMMV. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Looks very, very similar to J45 Custom (Koa) I got 3 weeks ago. The plugged hole in bridge the same. Angle makes it look closer than it really is. I assume yours is rosewood? Yes indeed.. mine is the rosewood variant. I'm very pleased with it all round, it records beautifully via a mic, though I haven't really checked out the electric side of things yet. I haven't seen a Koa version up close, but in the photos I've seen they certainly look lovely. I'm sure you must be pleased with yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I must have very low standards or something. I've been playing forever and I've never stuck a camera inside a guitar. When we get to structural problems, I'll worry. Until then, I'll choose not to even check the glue cleanup on the inside. YMMV. P Like you I have never before done this... but seeing some of the pictures in this thread did get me curious. One would want and expect a Gibson to leave the factory well made and without any issues that might cause a problem down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosinante Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I must have very low standards or something. I've been playing forever and I've never stuck a camera inside a guitar. When we get to structural problems, I'll worry. Until then, I'll choose not to even check the glue cleanup on the inside. YMMV. P Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I must have very low standards or something. I've been playing forever and I've never stuck a camera inside a guitar. When we get to structural problems, I'll worry. Until then, I'll choose not to even check the glue cleanup on the inside. YMMV. Sure, the full content of this thread may be a bit much, but here's the bottom line of what's important: > Given the chewed up nature of some of Gibson's bridge plates, as preventative maintenence (to avoid future structural damage) it makes sense to check with a mirror & assure that the ball ends of your strings are properly seated onto good wood. Randmo, a new player with a new Gibson, discovered that he has a fairly compromised bridge plate & a couple of string balls that were already digging into weakened areas. He then did a great job of relocating the ball ends onto areas of the plate that are structurally sound. That pretty much seals the value of this thread in my book. It's absolutely worth looking under the hood of any guitar to know what's going on, but this is especially true if you own a Montana Gibson. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sure, the full content of this thread may be a bit much, but here's the bottom line of what's important: > Given the chewed up nature of some of Gibson's bridge plates, as preventative maintenence (to avoid future structural damage) it makes sense to check with a mirror & assure that the ball ends of your strings are properly seated onto good wood. Randmo, a new player with a new Gibson, discovered that he has a fairly compromised bridge plate & a couple of string balls that were already digging into weakened areas. He then did a great job of relocating the ball ends onto areas of the plate that are structurally sound. That pretty much seals the value of this thread in my book. It's absolutely worth looking under the hood of any guitar to know what's going on, but this is especially true if you own a Montana Gibson. Simple as that. We saw very different things in Randmo's pictures. I saw unfinished holes in an invisible area, and one string end not properly seated in the pin's groove. Maybe I better go look at those pictures again. P PS: looked again. Still see the same things. -- some splintering where the drill bit came through, which is normal and in every picture in this thread, including the Yamaha, some glue showing around a plugged mounting hole, and a string not properly installed. I see no structural damage, nor anything that threatens to cause any problems. I do see a new player who has learned how to properly seat the ball ends of his strings in th slots of his bridge pins. That's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 When I showed the J-15 (Lisa) to the tech (Doctor) at GC, he said that he had seen this on several guitars (he didn't mention any brands), and that he had never seen any issues caused by it. As I said before, I'm satisfied with the answer, and knowing its solid maple I'm not going to worry about it. I'm just going to play on and someday add a J-45 to my stable and anything else that has a "J" in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 When I showed the J-15 (Lisa) to the tech (Doctor) at GC, he said that he had seen this on several guitars (he didn't mention any brands), and that he had never seen any issues caused by it. As I said before, I'm satisfied with the answer, and knowing its solid maple I'm not going to worry about it. I'm just going to play on and someday add a J-45 to my stable and anything else that has a "J" in it Good answer. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I found a splinter inside of my Hummingbird. Never noticed it before. Actually, never looked before now. I'm wondering if it's always been there or perhaps occurred due to my violent fingerpicking style causing turmoil inside the guitar. Should I take it to a guitar tech for repair? A surgeon for removal? Leave it alone and say a rosary that it doesn't get worse? Or is "the bird" finished and destined for next Tuesday's trash pick-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 When I showed the J-15 (Lisa) to the tech (Doctor) at GC, he said that he had seen this on several guitars (he didn't mention any brands), and that he had never seen any issues caused by it. As I said before, I'm satisfied with the answer, and knowing its solid maple I'm not going to worry about it. I'm just going to play on and someday add a J-45 to my stable and anything else that has a "J" in it happy days! glad you're sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 We saw very different things in Randmo's pictures. I saw unfinished holes in an invisible area, and one string end not properly seated in the pin's groove. Maybe I better go look at those pictures again. PS: looked again. Still see the same things. -- some splintering where the drill bit came through, which is normal and in every picture in this thread, including the Yamaha, some glue showing around a plugged mounting hole, and a string not properly installed. I see no structural damage, nor anything that threatens to cause any problems. We do indeed see things differently. I look at Randmo's bridgeplate and unfortunately see a mess. What caught my eye in his original photo in post #5, was the ball to the far right which appears to already be digging deeply into the plate, and of course the string making a bee line for the locator hole, which does not appear to be resting on the plate at all. In his final photos in post #98, the 6th string hole does not appear as damaged as I had thought, but it looks enlarged (as does the 1st string hole), and then there's the significant chip between the 5th and 6th strings (which both generate substantial tension). Additionally, there are numerous chips adjacent to other pin holes. Honestly, the photo of this bridgeplate without strings should make the shop turn it's collective head away in shame. Although there is no structural damage to the instrument at this time, the structural purpose of the bridge plate is compromised when the ball ends do not, or cannot, rest fully on the plate. Every chip in the maple between and around the pin holes, and every poorly seated ball end means the plate has a potential area of weakness that might not ideally distribute string pressure as intended over time. If a crack develops on the plate between the pin holes, or a ball end eventually digs through the maple and is resting directly on the spruce top, serious issues may then develop. It may take many years, but left unchecked, the end result as we know, can be a crack in the top, a crack in the bridge, or a lifting bridge. Also to be considered, is the fact that there is precious little wood south of the pin holes on a Gibson belly-up bridge or straight bridge, as opposed to the larger surface area behind the pin holes on a Martin style belly-down bridge. If the bridgeplate becomes seriously compromised, a very small surface area of the bridge will be taking the brunt of the additional load, increasing the risk of damage before you might stumble upon what's happening. Again, the point here is preventative maintenance. If you can more ideally seat the ball ends, why not do so? If you've got a badly chewed up brdigeplate & no warranty option, why not consider a rather simple measure like the Plate Mate, or a narrow maple or birch overlay? Note that a product like the Plate Mate was developed for a reason - the reason being that this stuff does actually happen. If someone doesn't want to fool around with it, no problem. We all choose where & when to roll the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I think a good thing about a thread like this, made possible of course by the internet, is that users everywhere can bring up such issues. Gibson is a premier brand that in its advertising prides itself on quality, so when shoddy workmanship is demonstrated, as I would say it has been in some of the photos here, perhaps they may adjust their procedures to ensure that these potential problems no longer occur. So yes it's maybe a bit nerdy to be taking photos inside guitars, but who knows... it may result in product improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I think a good thing about a thread like this, made possible of course by the internet, is that users everywhere can bring up such issues. Gibson is a premier brand that in its advertising prides itself on quality, so when shoddy workmanship is demonstrated, as I would say it has been in some of the photos here, perhaps they may adjust their procedures to ensure that these potential problems no longer occur. So yes it's maybe a bit nerdy to be taking photos inside guitars, but who knows... it may result in product improvements. It resulted in Randmo re-stringing his guitar, getting the string ends properly seated in the pin grooves. Now most of the pressure of the ball end is where it belongs - on the pin, not on the bridge plate. That will probably do more for the long-term health of his bridge plate than anything else. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 If I had wanted to be a Proctologist...... Seriously, I originally took the position (and voted) to NOT look in there. But I remembered we had a lighted dental mirror in the bathroom junk drawer - so, suffering my wife's looks of pity, I dug it out, dug my head out of the sand and looked at my 2 week old J45 Custom first. I was initially really unhappy, because the locator hole was closer to the bridge pin holes and rougher than on my other two Gibsons. But, thanks to the ongoing discussion here - Randmo adding to the discussion, and DuluthDan clarifying on June 9th why locator hole placement variability was necessary to make sure intonation was perfect on each guitar in placing the bridge - I feel we've had more, better closure on this issue than when it first came up a few months ago. We can all make our own, better informed, decisions now on whether rough bridge pin holes warrant a trip to a luthier, and whether a locator hole is structurally unsound. Since most seem to have been plugged at the factory - it makes the decision a little easier for those folks. I wish you all who have legitimate issues the best. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randmo Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I feel we've had more, better closure on this issue than when it first came up a few months ago. We can all make our own, better informed, decisions now on whether rough bridge pin holes warrant a trip to a luthier, and whether a locator hole is structurally unsound. Since most seem to have been plugged at the factory - it makes the decision a little easier for those folks. I wish you all who have legitimate issues the best. Jim Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Some people stare at the inside of guitars. Other people play guitars. I guess there's nothing wrong with either. You just have to decide if you're going to play or stare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljohnr Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 If you are on the fence about looking inside, ask yourself. WWWD? What would Willie do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I was very much in the "I ain't lookin" camp for a while, having just shelled out a lot of good spending money on a new J-45 custom just a couple of months back. But it niggles at you doesn't it? What horrors lie inside there? So curiosity got the better of me and off I went today and bought a little LED inspection mirror... Well it maybe ain't the best woodworking you ever did see, but at least that mounting hole seems to be reasonably clear of the pins. Phew! So enough, back to playing Georgia, (GeeGee for short) 'cause that's what I named her :) All internal gazing aside for the moment, your J-45 Custom is gorgeous. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 All internal gazing aside for the moment, your J-45 Custom is gorgeous. P i'll second that. those firestripe guards are lovely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Some people stare at the inside of guitars. Other people play guitars. I guess there's nothing wrong with either. You just have to decide if you're going to play or stare. You can actually do both, and find it all satisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfbird Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 With the warranty in place, the only people rolling the dice are people who buy second-hand. Hmmn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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