ajay Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 On the UMGF, there's a guy falsely slamming Gibson quality. It's on the Critics Corner section. Both examples that he's given have been related to the inlay work on the peghead of Advanced Jumbos. Both are really messed up, but I have proven that the first example has had a bad neck reset, and it was damaged so bad that it actually compressed (squished) the KOA just below the neck heel. The second example shows the logo and arrows and diamond on the peghead. It looks as if it was inlayed by someone in the fourth grade. I don't know what happened to it. There is no photo of the neck joint provided, but it looks like someone's cousin Clem took a neck off of a J-45, removed the decal, and tried to inlay the logo and other MOP parts on the peghead. I mean, this is not the end of the world, but it fully looks to me that he is combing the web for the very worst repair jobs ever attempted on an Advanced Jumbo. I'm not asking anyone to jump in, but I am interested in the opinion of knowledgable Guitarists familiar with the quality of Flattops that are being shipped out of Bozeman. It just makes me sick to my stomach when someone produces what they claim to be irrefutable evidence of Bozeman's shoddy work, when the examples that they are giving are obviously work that was done by poor luthiers, and their shoddy craftsmanship is being blamed on Bozeman. I'm just proud of the guitars coming out of Bozeman, and I think that it's wrong to compare crappy repair work to the fine instruments being produced by our friends in Montana. I hope that a few of You will check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Has he dealt with the dealer where he bought it from? they I would be certain to help.. if not why Not just contact Gibson and show and explain the problem instead of showing the world? every Guitar company out there makes mistakes.. thats what warrenties are for , Some people are just plain stupid.. Personally if he bought a guitar in that state.. Im sure he looked it over prior to buying.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Every acoustic I have ever owned coming out of the Bozeman works just fine. I would stay out of it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I've owned at least 3 Gibsons. And Gibsons produce my favorite tone and sound out of every other guitar in the entire world....but when it comes to Gibson Quality build and Consistency from guitar to guitar....Well. ....You best stay out of that argument...let's just say, you'll always lose that argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I would agree.. But not all guitars are built equal.. Not just a Gibson issue.. Ive seen what he has talked about and owned alot of those what he refers too.. but its not a Quality issue.. its how you look after your guitar issue.. Right from the Stores that have to much stock to the owners that dont know how to look after there guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I generally never look at the Critics Corner over at UMGF so was thankfully oblivious to this little free for all until now. I'm with GuitaLight and duane v one this one. You read these threads and keep waiting for somebody to say "Oh Yeah, well my guitar can beat up your guitar." Lots of "experts" out there getting their panties in a wad over something they can not prove or disprove unless they have the guitar in their hands and the trained eye to figure out what is going on. The first thing though that popped into my head when reading the OP's post in the UMGF is that he is going on about how close this or that Bozeman-made AJ comes to the original. Thing is, I would be willing to bet that the closest he ever got to a 1930s AJ was a picture in some vintage guitar magazine. And I need nobody to defend my Gibsons because my guitars can beat up your guitars. Sorry, couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Ok, hand on heart honest response, please don't tar and feather me! I've had my run ins with Gibson over quality control. I had a Nick Lucas with a number of issues including lacquer delaminating around the pearl on the headstock, some weird geometry going on with the sides and a bridge that wouldn't stay down - when I removed it to refit it properly it put paid to any belief I had about Gibson acoustics being thinly lacquered. I also had an L20 that was much better built but with that horrible shattered mirror-like crazing in the lacquer. I used to work for a Gibson dealer and still see a fair few of them passing through the repair shop so I've come across a fair few other issues on them over the years, lacquer and fit/finish being the main culprits. I also find there's more variance between example of the same model than there are on other brands at the same level, which would put me off buying one I hadn't played. So honestly, I'm not going to say they're perfect. On the other hand, the two guitars I owned were great sounding and playing guitars that did me proud when I was touring with them. When I was selling new Gibsons I never struggled to find customers that loved them and didn't care about the pernickety things that occasionally bugged me about them. The ones we work on in the repair shop usually come out sounding great as well. I guess the way I've learned to think of them is that they're slightly idiosyncratic instruments where you sometimes have to overlook the small details on, but that they're iconic designs with a unique sound that are fairly priced for what they are. I'd also say that it always bugs me that people feel the need to try a guitar in a shop then immediately rush home to write their own amateur review of everything they thought was wrong with it, which then gets parroted online by other people so that the brand gets a reputation it doesn't deserve. But the internet is full of white noise generated by self appointed experts, no point getting wound up about it. I'm sure Gibson Montana don't lose a great deal of sleep over idiots on forums who post things like 'I tried 28 J45s at the weekend and only one of them was any good WTF LOL etc etc'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 "Every acoustic I have ever owned coming out of the Bozeman works just fine. I would stay out of it" Yup........on both counts[thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 ... But the internet is full of white noise generated by self appointed experts, no point getting wound up about it. ... You hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Kind of an expert is somebody 50 miles from home who has read a book on guitars thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 The thing that bothered me is that the problem was mainly with the MOP. However, the first box probably had the neck whacked loose, and possibly the tuner head broken off. Both examples showed the MOP badly inlayed on the outside of the Nitrocellulose, when at the factory the Nitro is sprayed over the MOP, so both examples had Cousin Clem repair the MOP inlay. Neither example had anything to do with Bozeman. On the second example, the Diamond itself wasn't even square, so Clem even cut that part of MOP himself. I know that Gibson isn't perfect. No manufacturer is. But both evidential examples had nothing to do with Bozeman. Show me a MOP problem under the sprayed Nitro, and I'll agree with You that Gibson screwed up. And like I said, the first one was an 8 year old Gibson that had a lousy neck reset, and part of the heel had been busted off and glued back on, and just below that awesome repair, The KOA was smashed just beneath the broken heel, and the neck cut was glued to the body and there was a bunch of lint and stuff stuck into the glue. All of that, and the seller said "No repairs of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Maybe this was one of those late Friday afternoon "I can't wait to get out of here and go home" guitars where the ebony and epoxy mixture used to fill any small gaps around the inlay was somehow not done. It is as good an explanation as any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Sounds like the man had an axe to grind. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Ok, so I checked it out. Lot's of pushback, but the OP wasnt budging. Like I said, he had an axe to grind. And about as convincing as the evidence cooked up to show that Vince Foster was murdered or the president is a secret 5 column something or other. Self evident to the OP; the rest of us? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Maybe this was one of those late Friday afternoon "I can't wait to get out of here and go home" guitars where the ebony and epoxy mixture used to fill any small gaps around the inlay was somehow not done. It is as good an explanation as any. . I hear Ya'. But still, the filler goes on before the Nitrocellulose. These examples looked as if someone was trying to make another neck into an AJ neck. Whoever did it, if it was someone at the factory, and my guitar showed up looking like that, I would instantly become a Martin man. There is no reason for a Gibson that looks that bad to be on the market. With the lifetime guarantee, either the dealer or the original purchaser would have returned it, and they're so bad, Gibson would pick out a cherry example and replace it immediately. Then, they should immediately call a quality control meeting in the inlay department. All I can say is that both of my Advanced Jumbos, in direct sunlight using a ten power loop the inlays are both ab solute lay precise and perfect. I can't imagine that anything that bad could have been produced in the same department that did mine. It is just impossible to believe that Gibson let that slip out the door. If they do, I'll be on the Martin forum very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I laugh at those people who criticize gibson acoustic. I love the quality and I have been lucky to meet Don and Ren .. I always tell Don how impressed I am with their product .I feel sorry for people who think Martin never makes mistakes ... Gibson is building incredible guitars in my experience this is a good time to be buying gibson montana products ! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 If the guy hadn't had such ridiculously hammered on examples, it could hav been informative. I'm interested in seeing legitimate problems with my beloved Gibsons. If there's something to watch out for, I'm interested. But when You show me one that has had the neck knocked loose so bad that it compressed the Koa on the back, You're just slandering and wasting my time. The heel even had about a 3/4 by 3/4 inch chunk knocked off and glued back on. It just peeves me when they start a slanderous thread that expects everyone to just accept his evidence as Gospel, when the obvious disaster had befallen that Gibson. The next one didn't provide enough photographic evidence to shoot him out of the water, but the peghead was so bad it was more than likely another smashed Gibson story. I've never seen a new Gibson with a disastrous looking peghead, and if it had been shipped out like that, it would have been shipped right back. Like I said, show me a legitimate problem so that We can all learn something by it. I hate having my time wasted, but I just couldn't accept his premise sitting down. I'm stupid that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 when I removed it to refit it properly it put paid to any belief I had about Gibson acoustics being thinly lacquered.... That's funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I laugh at those people who criticize gibson acoustic. I love the quality and I have been lucky to meet Don and Ren .. I always tell Don how impressed I am with their product .I feel sorry for people who think Martin never makes mistakes ... Gibson is building incredible guitars in my experience this is a good time to be buying gibson montana products ! JC In fairness to Martin I've sold a few hundred of them in the last decade and I can count the warrenty issues that weren't easily solvable by our repair department on one hand. Only one of those was a lacquer issue. My only criticisms would be the cheap ones can vary a bit in sound quality - as do most guitars at that level - and the laminated neck sometimes have a slightly rough feel that needs smoothing a little, but generally they deserve credit for setting a high standard in build quality. For what it's worth I had a look at the AJ referenced by the OP and the lacquer issue on the headstock is very like the one I had on my old Nick Lucas, and it is disappointing when you've spent a lot of money and you want to see it as your pride and joy. I used to get really wound up debating lacquer issues with the Gibson rep but that's how they've always done it and they don't want to change - so it's just something to accept with these guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The complainer, 'FenderGibsonMartin" makes sure to qualify his rant with "I love Gibsons...but..." We see the same thing here. If you read his original claim - he goes on only complaining about specs. 'too heavy' 'laquer too thick' 'neck too thin'. He then states he had to get a Custom Gibson built which was perfect which he still has. But, at the end, in his last paragraph - he does a smoke and mirrors and says his complaint is actually about Gibson quality and his only 'proof' is a picture off of Ebay. Sad that some people jumped on with their claims - but the overwhelming majority disagreed with Mr. FenderGibsonMartin. I have had 100% success with my 3 Gibsons. The headstock on my last - a J45 Custom - a floral design intricately done in abalone is perfect. I guess Mr.FGM would say my results - and those of you here who have had the same success - is a statistical anomaly. I prefer to think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 We've been down this headstock road before…..apparently Gibson headstocks are now CNC'd and the problem of the differential shrinking between the headstock veneer and the MOP inlay and the black filler has been tightened up. It was a problem for many years, aggravated by humidity problems. I have a headstock on my L-20 which has a couple of places where the filler is 1/16"!!! Humidity is good where I live, so it hasn't deteriorated like some I've seen. So we can put this baby to bed now……..The OP at UMGF has dug in his heels> I don't know why he just DOESN'T buy that online guitar and move on……in other words, just get a life! …..lol…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I wish someone from Bozeman could chime in and see if it's possible for them to get that bad. My 2002 AJ is absolutely perfect, and all that I use is a soundhole humidifier. My headstock I'd just so perfect and beautiful I can just gaze at it and admire it. The MOP that they used on mine is all just so dark, with all kinds of color. I just cannot imagine that the same group of artists that created my AJ could have ever turned out the slop that He's showing, and the worst example that He shows is from a Brazilian. My lowly EIR is so well made, and it's a really light guitar. The Rosewood is such a perfect match between the sides and the back.I think that I'm in love with a guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1ues Boy Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I have a serious problem, every time I pick up a high end Martin "D-18, HD-28v" the Martins just aren't good sounding enough Today I got my Gibson J-15 out of the shop I replaced the tuners and put a strap pin on the neck so I compared a few Martins and the J-15 won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I have a serious problem, every time I pick up a high end Martin "D-18, HD-28v" the Martins just aren't good sounding enough Today I got my Gibson J-15 out of the shop I replaced the tuners and put a strap pin on the neck so I compared a few Martins and the J-15 won Good.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajay Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 I have a serious problem, every time I pick up a high end Martin "D-18, HD-28v" the Martins just aren't good sounding enough Today I got my Gibson J-15 out of the shop I replaced the tuners and put a strap pin on the neck so I compared a few Martins and the J-15 won Good.. That's insane. Everyone knows that a Gibson could never sound or look as good as a Martin. Whut Yu b'en smokin' Boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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