rct Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Musical taste is subjective, the facts of his passing are dubious at best, and for me, he spoke to my generation. Generation x, a pissed off generation that doesnt have it as good as our fathers/grandfathers did. The facts of his passing may be dubious at best, I agree. That is for others to worry, I have no dog in that horse race. "he spoke to my generation." That's all that matters. He did do that. I didn't have to understand it, I didn't even have to listen because he wasn't talking to me, but his generation did hear him, and I was certainly asked to play a whole lot of their music and I enjoyed doing it. For that he will always get my props, just as todays and tomorrows will. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 ...not only that, hard rock music had started shifting to bands like Guns n' Roses, L.A. Guns and Skid Row none of them glam bands, I really thought that is were things were headed. Me too! That first record of them guys stomping around my living room sounding like a band SHOULD sound was a great sign I thought. But then, Axel should have stayed in the drive thru too. His most redeeming quality is that somewhere along the way he decided NOT to go down the dope/booze road. A great decision for him and eventually that BucketHead character, a bad decision for the rest of us. That band coulda been something else I thought. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Nirvana completely changed the landscape of rock which had been stale and boring hair bands for 11 straight years until one song ushered in a new sound that everyone else copied. To an extent, but Nirvana didn't invent grunge. It's early origins had been around since the mid 80's and the whole Seattle scene had many bands playing what was to eventually be named 'grunge'. Funny, G n' R's ex bassist Duff McKagan played in a few of the early grunge bands in Seattle, then years later Kurt said in an interview you can't be a Nirvana fan and a Guns N' Roses fan lol! Oddly, Duff was one of the last people to see Kurt too. In terms of influence, if you listen to stuff like Mudhoney's Superfuzz Bigmuff plus Early Singles (some of it recorded in 1988), both that album and Bleach by Nirvana have similarities in vibe and the sound that was around at the time. I guess Nirvana were just lucky and in the right place at the right time to get bigger than all the other grunge bands around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 To an extent, but Nirvana didn't invent grunge. It's early origins had been around since the mid 80's and the whole Seattle scene had many bands playing what was to eventually be named 'grunge'. Funny, G n' R's ex bassist Duff McKagan played in a few of the early grunge bands in Seattle, then years later Kurt said in an interview you can't be a Nirvana fan and a Guns N' Roses fan lol! Oddly, Duff was one of the last people to see Kurt too. In terms of influence, if you listen to stuff like Mudhoney's Superfuzz Bigmuff plus Early Singles (some of it recorded in 1988), both that album and Bleach by Nirvana have similarities in vibe and the sound that was around at the time. I guess Nirvana were just lucky and in the right place at the right time to get bigger than all the other grunge bands around. Kurt was jealous and insecure of other bands, not jus hair bands either, look how he treated pearl jam. Eddie vedder was nothin but nice to him but he kept saying i hate his band. Sometimes kurt got on his punk high horse, could could be a little trendy and jealous at times. It cracked me up because one could argue he wasnt real punk either. But i still love his music and yea youre right, he did not invent grunge. One could possibly say neil young did in the 70s, but he certainly made it popular and gave the music world a much needed colon cleanse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I am not bashing his death. He shot himself for whatever reason and it is sad. It was a choice he made. Now his daughter has no father and Courtney is another waste 46 chromosomes. My stepson just finished recovery for heroin addiction and he may do jail time cause he got pulled over and had a needle in his car. With all the stuff we know about heroin, for the life of me I can not understand what the draw to it is. Last I checked Mary Jane never killed anyone. I am not promoting drug use, but if you really must get high there are other choices than that garbage. How many rock stars and us regular folks lives does it need to take for people to say enough. Yes Nirpvana did usher a new sound from a stale musical environment, but for me they do nothing and I would rather listen to any Zep song, even the ones they stole that anything Kurt and the boys did. Here's my take of Nirpvana Bleach came out and no one cared. Probably sold 5 copies. One to each of their friends and 2 other copies to someone. Nevermind came out and was huge. In Utero came out and Nirpvana I think blatantly wanted to make an album that sounded terrible to piss people off and to see if they could get away with it. Don't forget that after Nevermind MTV became The Nirvana Channel. Video spins had started counting towards single plays(thanks Michael Jackson). Without that they woulda continued their meteoric rise to obscurity. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 FZ I was watching the Lemmy/ Motorhead doco Live Fast, Die Old and it was interesting where he said he'd never touched the stuff and couldn't understand why anyone would want to. In light of the quantity of stuff the man has taken it showed how rationality is possible. He's made of strong stuff in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Nirvana was okay.... but Soundgarden kicked a$$! Just sayin'. This album.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSCZBTai4E4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Musical taste is subjective, the facts of his passing are dubious at best, and for me, he spoke to my generation. Generation x, a pissed off generation that doesnt have it as good as our fathers/grandfathers did. You are 45 and into Nirvana? what did you do the previous decade? No NWOBHM, Thrash Metal, Heavy Metal, Hair Metal or Hardcore Punk band grab your attention? and here I thought I was a late bloomer. I never undertood why generation X should be pissed off, I grew up with very tight money, very tight and that motivated me instead of pissing me off, now my net worth probably 10 times what my parents net worth is. I guess being a metal head is a different frequency. Again, the reference to hair metal bands. Hair metal was great when it started, then like ALL movements/genres, bands from all over join the movement, ruin the scene and music gets diluted and bands start trying to differentiate themselves even if for ridiculous reasons. Then the original bands from the movement have to fight for a spot. It always happens. It's happened even to the blues. It happened to Grunge, lots of bands started moving to Seattle after Nirvana's success and wrecked the place. The strange thing is that nothing came out of Grunge, we got Alternative Rock whcih is pop or power pop and then we got Nickelback. It is obvious that you are a Kurt fan and nothing will change your mind but fans have conspiracy theories for all those famous rock stars that have died like Hendrix, Morrison, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Same vintage here Riffster and I agree with many points you make. Grunge was college and young adult music in my life so I enjoyed it for the music not the teen angst stuff that was in the rear vision mirror by then. I think it was kind of like a return to the chord and riff driven 'Hard Rock', blended with metal and punk that was my favourite as a kid (AC/DC, Motorhead, Maiden, Sabbath etc). Apart from G'n'R rock seemed to have split into the softer hair metal or the heavier thrash metal so for me grunge was a pleasant return to rock with some new twists I enjoyed. Dinosaur Jr, Soundgarden, Mudhoney and the like formed part of the soundtrack to the young adult/cut loose years - and that was just fine with me. Nirvana, less so but clearly they (Cobain) were a voice to many in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yes MTV make stars out of pretty boys and sh!tty band that never should have gone anywhere but the garage. At least that band didnt steal music and try to take credit for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 You are 45 and into Nirvana? what did you do the previous decade? No NWOBHM, Thrash Metal, Heavy Metal, Hair Metal or Hardcore Punk band grab your attention? and here I thought I was a late bloomer. I never undertood why generation X should be pissed off, I grew up with very tight money, very tight and that motivated me instead of pissing me off, now my net worth probably 10 times what my parents net worth is. I guess being a metal head is a different frequency. Again, the reference to hair metal bands. Hair metal was great when it started, then like ALL movements/genres, bands from all over join the movement, ruin the scene and music gets diluted and bands start trying to differentiate themselves even if for ridiculous reasons. Then the original bands from the movement have to fight for a spot. It always happens. It's happened even to the blues. It happened to Grunge, lots of bands started moving to Seattle after Nirvana's success and wrecked the place. The strange thing is that nothing came out of Grunge, we got Alternative Rock whcih is pop or power pop and then we got Nickelback. It is obvious that you are a Kurt fan and nothing will change your mind but fans have conspiracy theories for all those famous rock stars that have died like Hendrix, Morrison, etc. I dont listen to one specific type of music alone. But ive been a fan of Kurts for 24 years, back then i liked punk, ska, reggae, folk, bob marley, bowie, iggy pop, the cure, depeche mode, the cramps, 60s surf, anythin that spoke to me. As i got older listened to classic rock, blues, some progressive, big band and even country. As for Nirvana, ive liked them ever since they hit it big like 24 years ago, modern music stinks for the most part. I spend much of time listening to old stuff my friend whos in her fifties sends me. Some i love like King Crimson's epitah and Trex, other stuff like zepplin, not so much, it all sounds the same to me. Im not a big conspiracy guy. I dont believe the 9-11 was an inside job or that we didnt land on the moon etc etc. But, when i look at the facts regarding the death of Kurt, the facts do not support a suicide. No fingerprints on the gun, no prints on the shell casing, two different inks on the alleged suicide letter, the cop intentionally going to get Kurt's wallet and place it beside him, it all just does not add up. Ive never been a person convinced by propaganda, i look at the facts and if im interested in something try to examine all of them with a fine tooth comb. I do the same with politics and try to see con as well as pro. While i can be swayed by a strong convition of a credible witness, ultimately i look for tangible evidence before i make up my mind. As for Morrison, you will note i never said he was murdered or there was foul play. I just said we cannot rule it out as a possibility because there was no autopsy, all we had was the word of a junkie. As for your music, if it made you happy more power to you ya, if it made you wealthy on top, even better. Perhaps some of the music we listened to was different but Zappa/beefheart was cool as hell, bowie,stooges, the cramps, the clash, dead kennedys, sonic youth, the germs, joy division, new order, the cure, depeche mode, that was the soundtrack to my life. Nickelback is another matchbox 20, creed, days of the new im half alt rock im half not try hard rock. Not my cup of tea. As for bein a Kurt fan, yep, sure am and wear that badge proudly. He and Robbie Krieger are perhaps the most underrated guitarists of all time. But being a fan of it doesnt cloud my ability to think rationally or reason and when i look at the facts of his death, there is zero evidence that he himself pulled the trigger. The coroner even said he was so loaded he would have been unconcious from all the drugs and not sure how he mustered the strength. Does that mean murder? No, but it wreaks of a coverup as does all the previous things i mentioned. You want to call me a conspiracy theorist because i choose to logically weigh the evidence with critical thinking be my guest, but imo that is call being a critical thinker. There are two types of people, the sheep who buy propaganda or what they are told, and critical thinkers who check the facts before they come to a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly campbell Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree What did Zeppelin steal anyway?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree What did Zeppelin steal anyway?? This is just but a few, there are several more they did and tried to take credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 .....I think he liked speed as well. Quite an understatement. My younger brother was fatally injured back in 1978 in a motorcycle accident and died without regaining consciousness in hospital some days later. I have seen quite a few friends or acquaintances die or go off the rails due to drink or drugs. "Everyone decides." Well...maybe....but no-one can possibly be aware of all the (possible) consequences. It was Morrison in the bathtub btw. And fame in the music world (as opposed to notoriety) doesn't just happen; you have to want it badly enough to do whatever it takes, and you have to be in the right place at the right time with the right material. And fame means an audience. Cobain wanted fame. Regards to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There are two types of people, the sheep who buy propaganda or what they are told, and critical thinkers who check the facts before they come to a conclusion. Fair enough but don't say that the 80's were stagnant with hair metal bands, I mean Slayer went from Show No Mercy to South Of Heaven within a few years, just to name one. If that wasn't your thing I understand. To add to your last comment there is a third type of people, people that want real answers instead of questions and lose ends. I have never cared to look into Cobain's death at all and I am not sure who would like to kill him. I believe all these types of investigations always start with a motive and it seems he himself had his reasons...and when the last song of your last record studio is All Apologies, well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Fair enough but don't say that the 80's were stagnant with hair metal bands, I mean Slayer went from Show No Mercy to South Of Heaven within a few years, just to name one. If that wasn't your thing I understand. To add to your last comment there is a third type of people, people that want real answers instead of questions and lose ends. I have never cared to look into Cobain's death at all and I am not sure who would like to kill him. I believe all these types of investigations always start with a motive and it seems he himself had his reasons...and when the last song of your last record studio is All Apologies, well... To be quite honest, i believe he accidently overdosed, the person with him panicked and courtney helped them fake the suicide. But, as i said, i dont rule out murder, anything is possible. But, it would seem an accidental overdose and coverup a more likely scenario unless he had a longstanding debt to some dope dealer from who knows where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 They borrowed a lot of stuff from the old blues guys. No one before LZ ever did that. Please excuse me FZ but Elvis never gave Arthur Crudup any credit or royalties for "That's All Right Mama" and Crudup died penniless. Many people 'borrowed', i.e. stole from the old blues guys, even other blues guys. I recently bought B.B.King's "Blues On The Bayou" and the track "Mean Ole' World" which is credited to B.B., is "Mean Old World" by T-Bone Walker. No doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 my 2 cents... 1. Dude is dead. You can't theorise him back to life. 2. The artists Zep 'borrowed' from probably have benefited more from interest in their work as a result of the 'plagiarism' claims than any piffling deal they might have squeezed out of Peter Grant in the early 70's. I don't listen to those artists much - I listen to Zeppelin regularly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I was quite shocked when I heard the original Dazed & Confused by Jake Holmes and how similar it was, but then I guess Jimmy added all the middle section and made it way more interesting than the original. Then I heard Bert Jansch original version of Black Mountain side called Blackwaterside!! Yikes, it was the same pretty much! It's based on a trad Irish tune, but still, Jimmy should have put 'traditional' on the credits. To be honest, not of that bothers me as I love Led Zep, but they were taking credit for other peoples ideas a bit too much in the early days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Bleach came out and no one cared. Probably sold 5 copies. One to each of their friends and 2 other copies to someone. Nevermind came out and was huge. In Utero came out and Nirpvana I think blatantly wanted to make an album that sounded terrible to piss people off and to see if they could get away with it. Opinions are interesting. For me In Utero was the best album they made, then Bleach, then Nevermind. In Utero has 'Serve The Servants' and my favourite on that album 'Milk It'; Bleach has my all time favourite 'School'; Nevermind was a bit too polished for me, but still very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Kurt was jealous and insecure of other bands, not jus hair bands either, look how he treated pearl jam. Eddie vedder was nothin but nice to him but he kept saying i hate his band. Sometimes kurt got on his punk high horse, could could be a little trendy and jealous at times. It cracked me up because one could argue he wasnt real punk either. But i still love his music and yea youre right, he did not invent grunge. One could possibly say neil young did in the 70s, but he certainly made it popular and gave the music world a much needed colon cleanse. True. Zuma by Neil Young is a kind of country-rock-grunge blueprint and Rust Never Sleeps is certainly grungy in places with My My, Hey Hey, Sedan Delivery and Powderfinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Opinions are interesting. For me In Utero was the best album they made, then Bleach, then Nevermind. In Utero has 'Serve The Servants' and my favourite on that album 'Milk It'; Bleach has my all time favourite 'School'; Nevermind was a bit too polished for me, but still very good. Kind of like the clash in the sense of one punk, one rock, one pop album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carranoj25 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Woah didnt think this post would blow up this much... Cool! As far as hair metal and hair bands... that is what got me into guitar so I can't knock them at all. The pure energy from the guitars these guys create just always gave me chills. I can see where it went stale as will any genre of music, but the guys who did glam rock best sure did it awesome. As for the grunge scene, I, on the contrary to many here, do think Kurt's music was special. It brought to many peoples' attention ideas we thought about but didn't know how to vocalize. For example, a dirty imagination. Many of us have one but we never capitalize on the chance to make it tangible. One song that comes to mind Is Floyd the Barber. What a gross song. But it gets me moving and dancing around the kitchen thats for sure. Perhaps he could've changed the lyrics and kept the riff and still would have had the same effect, but either way I still think Nirvana's music as opposed to some of the other major grunge bands combines a sense of urgency with a pessimistic mindset. Only other band that came out of that era that really made more of a dent (only my opinion feel free to disagree) than Nirvana was Radiohead (and in terms of Rock n Roll music just their first two, maybe three albums). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starpeve Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Along with U2, Nirpvana are the most over rated bands of all time. They have about 3 songs I can stomach. People love them but for the life of me I can see why. People need to face what Kurt Cobain was, a junkie who wrote songs and was in a band. There are many like him, but most don't shoot themselves in the face with a shotgun.You showed us Kurt. I am sure your daughter is happy to grow up without a father. How horrible is your life when people adore you and your music sells. My advice to Kurt would have been if what you are doing is a chore and you are sick of fans who what a piece of you, go get a job at Burger King and no one will give a sh!t about you. And yet you apparently listen to Frank Zappa!?!? Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starpeve Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Talented without a doubt but often unbearable (to me) to listen to. I went through a Zappa phase in my teens, loved his humour , tolerated his music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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