Looking for all y'all's feedback on my 1st Gibson

[Lenny C.]

Went out to an auction for a power tool and came back with a yellow tool box.  Oh, and my first Gibby, a Gibson Les Paul Standard.  From what I could learn online trying to decipher the inset (not decal) serial number, I think I have a year 2000 model in what I think may be the Ocean Blue finish.  Durn purty, and I really like the feel and sound though I realize my amps may have something to do with that.  Can anyone tell me more about this guitar by just these photos, such as the potential value?  PpppllleeeeZ? 

[merciful-evans]

Hi Larry and welcome to the forum.

I am not an expert, so cant offer a useful appraisal. I like the colour though, and it suits the amber knobs. 

 

 

[pippy]

Hi Larry and welcome to the forum.

I know I'm about to ask quite a lot from you and apologise for that in advance.

I wonder if you could perhaps take a photo of the body absolutely square-on; one of the rear of the peghead; one of the neck-heel as seen from the side; one of the bridge showing the bridge-posts; and one the fingerboard inlays for us to see? Also a view of what is under the truss-rod cover might be informative if that's at all possible? It might be very useful to see what markings - if any - are stamped on to the bodies of the Vol and Tone potentiometers.

Thanks in advance.

Pip.

Edited June 18, 2019 by pippy

[kidblast]

to decipher a modern Gibson serial number,

should go like this

YDDDYRRR
YY is the production year
DDD is the day of the year (001 jan1st, 365, december 31)
RRR is the factory ranking/plant designation number.  

so for example,

23650NNN would be a guitar built on dec 31, 2000  the last three numbers, I've really no idea what significance those are, someone else might.

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by kidblast

[kidblast]

55 minutes ago, FZ Fan said:

That is the was it was done, but I thought recently Gibson went to where the first 2 numbers on the far left is now the year. I ain't often right, but I've never been wrong.

Entirely possible as they change these formats when they want, but if his guitar is in fact nine years old, this would be the formula.

 

[pippy]

49 minutes ago, kidblast said:

...if his guitar is in fact nine years old, this would be the formula...

 

If the OP is correct the guitar is 19 years old; not 9.

I have a rather uncomfortable feeling that the guitar might possibly come from somewhere other than the USA. I truly hope I'm wrong but, as mentioned above, there are a few areas where I would like to see some more informative snaps.

Pip.

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

If the OP is correct the guitar is 19 years old; not 9.

I have a rather uncomfortable feeling that the guitar might possibly come from somewhere other than the USA. I truly hope I'm wrong but, as mentioned above, there are a few areas where I would like to see some more informative snaps.

Pip.

yea me and that new math pip,, it would be 19! 🙂

[Big Bill]

2 hours ago, pippy said:

If the OP is correct the guitar is 19 years old; not 9.

I have a rather uncomfortable feeling that the guitar might possibly come from somewhere other than the USA. I truly hope I'm wrong but, as mentioned above, there are a few areas where I would like to see some more informative snaps.

Pip.

 

The whole post smells odd to me.

Y'all being from Canada where it's so durn purty!

Edited June 18, 2019 by Big Bill

[kidblast]

Good clear photos of the bridge post s and what's under the truss rod cover ends the debate..

[Twang Gang]

A few things bother me - tuning peg posts look pretty long?  Truss rod cover with "Les Paul Standard" on it instead of just Standard.  Black nut?  Biggest weird thing is the cover plate on the back control panel which seems to be running in the wrong direction and has some sort of decal or logo on it?

[pippy]

19 minutes ago, Twang Gang said:

..........Biggest weird thing is the cover plate on the back control panel which......has some sort of decal or logo on it?

That's the usual Chinese fake 'Custom Shop' sticker on the usual erroneous cream-coloured inspection plates which the manufacturers seem to think make the guitar appear more authentic. Very Weird.

I don't want to get into a peeing-up-the-wall contest here nor go into details but there are at least nine things which appear to be classic tell-tale signs of a $220 Chibson. I hope I'm wrong but I'm 99.9% sure I'm not. Pics - as mentioned above - would help clear up this matter in seconds.

Pip.

[Big Bill]

I believe we're not going to hear anymore from the OP. Outside of of getting a value, he got pretty much what he was looking for.

 

" all y'all's" Southern Canadian dialect? 🤔

Edited June 18, 2019 by Big Bill

[Lenny C.]

Well, this has been an education!  Now, let me confirm a few quick things up front.  It's Lenny not Larry, Merciful, but certainly no big deal as that would have corrected itself soon enough.  I am indeed a Canadian from the Rocky mountains of BC.  The "all y'all" is a bow to my southern American friends I made over the 33 years I was spending the months of June and September motorcycle touring, but I can see the confusion I may have caused with that wording.  Sorry about that.  (See, I told you I'm Canadian.;-)

Now, for the scary part.  If this turns out to be a Chibson, then I've been severely rooked and I should have stopped bidding at the yellow tool box at this estate sale. Having been out of the guitar world for 55 years, I suppose I should have let this one go and educated myself first.  The one saving grace would be that I at least have my two real Gretches and the Godin.  In the meantime, give me a day or two to round up those requested photos that Pip asked for.  If worse comes to worst, maybe I'll just give it to the local high school music program.   Or make a side table out of it.  Or sell it to someone I don't like.

I'm...I'm...prematurely despondent.  That's what I am.  How do you spell despondent.  Never mind.

 

[pippy]

33 minutes ago, Lenny C. said:

It's Lenny.........

......give me a day or two to round up those requested photos that Pip asked for.  If worse comes to worst, maybe I'll just give it to the local high school music program.......

 

I'm very sorry to have mis-spelled your name in my first reply, Lenny.  I was far too careless. Mea Culpa and please accept my apologies.

As far as the guitar goes don't give up all hope. The images posted don't show the 'red-flag' areas quite clearly enough for me (at least) to be 100% certain that it is a counterfeit but I do have to say that it's not looking hopeful for a number of reasons.

I still do hope I might be wrong.

If, unfortunately, it does turn out to be a fake would you have any legal recourse from the auction house / estate from which it was bought? Was it listed as a 'Gibson Les Paul' in the catalogue/brochure of the Estate Sale or just as something vague like 'Electric Guitar'? If the former then might you be able to get somewhere for Misrepresentation / False Advertising and could claim a refund on trading standards laws?

If you can't achieve satisfaction in this quarter then you could simply hang on to it. As you said in the OP,  it feels and sounds good to your ears and hands. That is at least something positive. If things do go pear-shaped and you don't feel like holding on to it then donating it to a high school is a generous thought.

Pip.

Edited June 18, 2019 by pippy

[Lenny C.]

Right.  Here we go for the first 3 of 6

 

 

[Lenny C.]

And here we go for #4 of 6

 

[Lenny C.]

And it seems I'll have to come back later for #5 and #6.  Sorry, Pippy.

 

[Lenny C.]

Here's #5 & #6.....nope, I'm being limited in how many photos I can submit.  So, let's try just #6.

 

 

[Lenny C.]

8 hours ago, kidblast said:

to decipher a modern Gibson serial number,

should go like this

YDDDYRRR
YY is the production year
DDD is the day of the year (001 jan1st, 365, december 31)
RRR is the factory ranking/plant designation number.  

so for example,

23650NNN would be a guitar built on dec 31, 2000  the last three numbers, I've really no idea what significance those are, someone else might.

 

So, if I followed the codification I found online and here, my 00170421 would have been made in the year 2000, Jan. 17th, possibly at a plant in Kalamazoo MI???

[pippy]

Yes.  I'm sorry to say it's as I feared. No doubt at all that it's counterfeit. I don't, as a rule, go into much detail describing fakes in the forum but in this case I'll make an exception.

The rear-of-peghead shot, alone, shows the wrong peghead profile; no 'wings' for the peghead construction; incorrect stamp-detail; non-brand tuning pegs - which are also incorrectly spaced - and the run-of-the-mill Les Paul Standard is not - nor ever has been - a product of the Custom Shop so would not have a CS waterslide.

And that's just the six mistakes seen in that one snap. There are many more signs in every picture you have posted.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  Hopefully you can discuss matters with the agents for the Estate Sale?

Pip.

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by pippy

[Lenny C.]

Thanks, Pippy.  And to others who noticed the anomalies.  Better for me to know now than to unknowingly pass this on to someone else as the real thing.  From now on, I bring a knowledgeable person along with me.  I hope there's a special place in hell for anyone at the auction who knew what was happening and said nothing.  I'll follow up with the auctioneer.

[TheLeadFlatpick]

I got burned on my first “Gibson” purchase, too, so you’re definitely not alone here. It did however motivate me to learn how to tell the chibsons from the gibsons, so I guess it wasnt ALL bad

[01GT eibach]

Lenny, thanks for the bounty of photos.  It definitely does not bode well when I can I tell it has a questionable pedigree.  That being said, the Chinese-made copies are not horrible guitars at all.  Hopefully you did not pay (the equivalent of) thousands of US dollars for it?

[IanHenry]

The Gibson logo on the headstock looks like a transfer which it shouldn't be if it was a Les Paul Standard.  Let's hope, as Pippy says you can get a refund. 

[kidblast]

if I followed the codification I found online and here, my 00170421 would have been made in the year 2000, Jan. 17th, possibly at a plant in Kalamazoo MI??? 

If it was an authentic Gibson, (and we know now it is not) it would not have been made in Kalamazoo, Gibson pulled out of there some years prior (1984 is when they stopped production)

Would have been made in Nashville Tenn.