Fascinating Read...

[Murph]

While I'm a huge fan of Neil Young's acoustic work, it's no secret I will change the station, push a button, twist a knob, whatever it takes to clear the air if he grabs that damned Les Paul, or gets near an amplifier. I'm no fan of Neil plugged in. I love his other work though. A lot.

I ran into this the other day and thought I'd share it with you all in the Acoustic Forum.

Whether you like his thoughts or not, David Samuels is a helluva writer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/magazine/neil-young-streaming-music.html

[QuestionMark]

Really interesting article.  I do some volunteer music sessions and self study work in music wellness at a facility.  The music therapy section of the article was extremely interesting.  So, was the Neil Young stuff.  Thanks for sharing.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

[Paul14]

3 hours ago, Murph said:

While I'm a huge fan of Neil Young's acoustic work, it's no secret I will change the station, push a button, twist a knob, whatever it takes to clear the air if he grabs that damned Les Paul, or gets near an amplifier. I'm no fan of Neil plugged in. I love his other work though. A lot.

I ran into this the other day and thought I'd share it with you all in the Acoustic Forum.

Whether you like his thoughts or not, David Samuels is a helluva writer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/magazine/neil-young-streaming-music.html

 

If he starts talking I’ll twist the knob. Love his music, but don’t really care about his philosophy!

[slimt]

well. hes hates everything ..  hes a tree hugger or hes trying to be.. to get attention.  .. and to top it all off.. he drives a Prius.  only thing I like about Mr Young .. is the stash of Guitars he owns.   

[RMPease]

Whatever one may think Neil’s an original. He wouldn’t have it any other way. 🙂

Fascinating. Thanks for posting.

[dhanners623]

On 8/27/2019 at 8:43 PM, slimt said:

well. hes hates everything ..  hes a tree hugger or hes trying to be.. to get attention.  .. and to top it all off.. he drives a Prius.  only thing I like about Mr Young .. is the stash of Guitars he owns.   

 

I'm not sure I understand why "tree hugger" is a bad thing. Don't we want to preserve the environment?

And so what if he drives a Prius? I lived in the Middle East for five years and I saw how they spend YOUR gas money. They have better cars than you do, more houses than you do and maids and nannies and cooks. They work less than you do and take longer vacations than you do. (They even have free world-class healthcare.) If Young doesn't want to buy gasoline, more power to him.

[northcntryblues]

I read this article shortly after it was published and actually wrote a couple of comments that I added in the comments section below the article.  In the one below, I was disagreeing with the writer's view that Neil's later career has been of a higher quality than Dylan, McCartney or the Stones.   I took exception to that, especially with Dylan, whose work since 'Time Out of Mind' in 1997 has been outstanding.

"Bob Dylan is certainly not a 'skeletal hologram' of his former self and the quality his late-career body of work for is unparalleled by anyone, far surpassing that of Mr. Young. You do capture what seems the essence of Neil, though - that he 'does' things, constantly. Consequently, it was sad to read that he is contemplating not making records anymore. Long may he run. "

Overall I like Neil's stuff a lot, and like many guitarists, a lot of the first songs I learned on guitar were his.   I also live pretty close to the 'town in North Ontario' he writes about in the song 'Helpless'.

Also, I drive a Prius too, and love it.  Not sure what the problem with that is??  (I had no idea Neil Young drove one). 

Edited August 29, 2019 by countrybluespicker

[Murph]

While I appreciate EVERYONES contributions to the thread, I'm tired of the politics. Just sick of it.

The OP was to compliment Mr. Samuels on some incredible writing. As I said, whether or not you agree with his opinions, it was a masterpiece of writing of a true legend.

No, I don't think Neil's writing  is quite on the same plane as Bob Dylan, and as mentioned, his electric guitar work is sloppy in my opinion. With bad tone.

Most of my early musical hero's have differing political opinions as I do now, but I can still enjoy their early works as I did at the time, when we weren't so damned touchy.

Carry on.

 

[blindboygrunt]

I cant read the article without creating an account for the NY times

 

Is it available anywhere else to read ?

Bug fan of Neil's,  more acoustic but hes one of my favourite electric players , I like sloppy . It's all feel and emotion.... to me anyway .

Down by the river is easily in my top ten solos ...

 

 

[62burst]

I cant read the article without creating an account for the NY times

Is it available anywhere else to read ?

Are you sure? 'Just tried on the mobile device- the "create an account" box pops up, but a down arrow on upper right allows it to be minimized, and for the article to be read.

[Lars68]

I'm a huge fan of Neil, both his acoustic and electric stuff, as well as his somewhat ecentric, looney personality. The article was a great read and extremely well written. By the way, I happen to have one of his Pono-players mentioned in the article. It's by far the single most used piece of electronics I have ever owned. It's by no means a revolutionary device, saving music for mankind, but it does sound great! It did help raise the awareness of the importance of file quality and that phones and tiny bluetooth speakers are not the best way to listen to music. Since the Pono came out, more and more companies, like giant Sony, are developing high resolution players of their own. It's a niche market, and will most likely stay so, but worth checking out for any real music fan.

If you like Neil, check out the two books he has written (no ghost writer in sight). Very entertaining!

Lars

Edited August 29, 2019 by Lars68

[Paul14]

20 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

 

I'm not sure I understand why "tree hugger" is a bad thing. Don't we want to preserve the environment?

 

 

Hey, we’re banning plastic straws. What more do you want? I noticed they aren’t banning plastic syringes though.

[dhanners623]

46 minutes ago, Paul14 said:

 

Hey, we’re banning plastic straws. What more do you want? I noticed they aren’t banning plastic syringes though.

 

There is a medical necessity for disposable plastic syringes. (You really want to re-use a syringe?) Conversely, there is no particular reason for a plastic straw since there are reasonable eco-friendly alternatives, i.e., recycled paper or metal.

And again.... Plastic is a petrochemical product. It is made from oil. You really think that guy I used to live next to needs another Maserati?

[Paul14]

45 minutes ago, dhanners623 said:

 

There is a medical necessity for disposable plastic syringes. (You really want to re-use a syringe?) Conversely, there is no particular reason for a plastic straw since there are reasonable eco-friendly alternatives, i.e., recycled paper or metal.

And again.... Plastic is a petrochemical product. It is made from oil. You really think that guy I used to live next to needs another Maserati?

 

Aren’t they littering the sidewalks of California cities? Guess that’s ok? What are the true polluters doing about the environment! China, Bangladesh, Vietnam ect, ect. Are you & Neil preaching to them also? We’re not even one of the top 20 polluters in the world. How exactly is banning straws here helping anything. Besides it’s all gonna end in 12 years anyway. Let’s party. That guy  can have as many Maseratis as he wants. Who are you to decide that? Nobody’s telling you, you can’t buy another Prius!

by the way, what exactly is the correct temperature of the earth?

Edited August 29, 2019 by Paul14

[dhanners623]

14 hours ago, Paul14 said:

 

Aren’t they littering the sidewalks of California cities? Guess that’s ok? What are the true polluters doing about the environment! China, Bangladesh, Vietnam ect, ect. Are you & Neil preaching to them also? We’re not even one of the top 20 polluters in the world. How exactly is banning straws here helping anything. Besides it’s all gonna end in 12 years anyway. Let’s party. That guy  can have as many Maseratis as he wants. Who are you to decide that? Nobody’s telling you, you can’t buy another Prius!

by the way, what exactly is the correct temperature of the earth?

 

Kudos on your ability to ask a "simple" question and think it makes you look smart. I'll put this in the gentlest terms I can: It doesn't.

The whole, "What exactly is the 'correct' temperature of the Earth?" canard has been around for awhile. And just because climatologists -- you know, the men and women who get fabulously wealthy studying climate [/sarcasm] -- refuse to accept that simplistic and dumb question doesn't mean you've just scored a "gotcha" point. You haven't. 

Climate scientists (when they're not counting their money, that is) say it isn't a matter of  the exact global average surface temperature in 2100 that makes the biggest difference in whether some species will survive global warming or if Miami or Dhaka or Jakarta or New York City or Boston will be flooded by rising seawater. The big factor is the rate of change. The issue is climate stability.

The more rapidly that climate changes, the more significant the impacts will be. We've had study after study showing that because of the melting of the ice sheets in the Antarctic and Greenland, sea level rise is accelerating. That makes adapting to new water levels far more difficult.

Here's the deal.... Just because you don't personally understand climate science doesn't mean global warming isn't happening. Just because you don't get an answer to a question you think is smart doesn't mean the question is, indeed, smart.

The old "But what about other countries?!?" thing is tiresome, too. I don't rob banks. Does that mean I want to live in a place that has no statutes outlawing bank robbery? We have to do what we can. I'm willing to bet you don't travel much internationally because if you did you'd see how places like India and China are already suffering from their too-little-too-late approach to dealing with pollution. Spend a couple of days in Shenzhen without a mask. Take a stroll through one of the garbage neighborhoods in Cairo. Drink the tap water in Mumbai -- I dare you.

It always intrigues me that one of the leading institutions in America that a) recognizes global warming is real and b) sees it as a major threat to world stability and peace is the Pentagon. Their experts have studied climate change for decades. If you don't believe me (or a Prius-driving Neil Young...) will you at least believe the men and women in uniform who have taken a solemn oath to defend you?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-18/in-dire-report-pentagon-warns-bases-imperiled-by-climate-change

Edited August 30, 2019 by dhanners623

[Lars68]

I believe that ignoring the damage we as humans are causing the earth is the single greatest threat to civilization as we know it.

Neil has earned a platform and he is at trying to use it. We might love, hate, or be indifferent to his music, or how he presents his message, but he is at least trying to do something.

Lars

 

[Paul14]

8 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

 

Kudos on your ability to ask a "simple" question and think it makes you look smart. I'll put this in the gentlest terms I can: It doesn't.

The whole, "What exactly is the 'correct' temperature of the Earth?" canard has been around for awhile. And just because climatologists -- you know, the men and women who get fabulously wealthy studying climate [/sarcasm] -- refuse to accept that simplistic and dumb question doesn't mean you've just scored a "gotcha" point. You haven't. 

Climate scientists (when they're not counting their money, that is) say it isn't a matter of  the exact global average surface temperature in 2100 that makes the biggest difference in whether some species will survive global warming or if Miami or Dhaka or Jakarta or New York City or Boston will be flooded by rising seawater. The big factor is the rate of change. The issue is climate stability.

The more rapidly that climate changes, the more significant the impacts will be. We've had study after study showing that because of the melting of the ice sheets in the Antarctic and Greenland, sea level rise is accelerating. That makes adapting to new water levels far more difficult.

Here's the deal.... Just because you don't personally understand climate science doesn't mean global warming isn't happening. Just because you don't get an answer to a question you think is smart doesn't mean the question is, indeed, smart.

The old "But what about other countries?!?" thing is tiresome, too. I don't rob banks. Does that mean I want to live in a place that has no statutes outlawing bank robbery? We have to do what we can. I'm willing to bet you don't travel much internationally because if you did you'd see how places like India and China are already suffering from their too-little-too-late approach to dealing with pollution. Spend a couple of days in Shenzhen without a mask. Take a stroll through one of the garbage neighborhoods in Cairo. Drink the tap water in Mumbai -- I dare you.

It always intrigues me that one of the leading institutions in America that a) recognizes global warming is real and b) sees it as a major threat to world stability and peace is the Pentagon. Their experts have studied climate change for decades. If you don't believe me (or a Prius-driving Neil Young...) will you at least believe the men and women in uniform who have taken a solemn oath to defend you?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-18/in-dire-report-pentagon-warns-bases-imperiled-by-climate-change

You do realize that without coal fired plants, the Prius ain’t going anywhere 

right?

[Paul14]

8 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

 

Kudos on your ability to ask a "simple" question and think it makes you look smart. I'll put this in the gentlest terms I can: It doesn't.

The whole, "What exactly is the 'correct' temperature of the Earth?" canard has been around for awhile. And just because climatologists -- you know, the men and women who get fabulously wealthy studying climate [/sarcasm] -- refuse to accept that simplistic and dumb question doesn't mean you've just scored a "gotcha" point. You haven't. 

Climate scientists (when they're not counting their money, that is) say it isn't a matter of  the exact global average surface temperature in 2100 that makes the biggest difference in whether some species will survive global warming or if Miami or Dhaka or Jakarta or New York City or Boston will be flooded by rising seawater. The big factor is the rate of change. The issue is climate stability.

The more rapidly that climate changes, the more significant the impacts will be. We've had study after study showing that because of the melting of the ice sheets in the Antarctic and Greenland, sea level rise is accelerating. That makes adapting to new water levels far more difficult.

Here's the deal.... Just because you don't personally understand climate science doesn't mean global warming isn't happening. Just because you don't get an answer to a question you think is smart doesn't mean the question is, indeed, smart.

The old "But what about other countries?!?" thing is tiresome, too. I don't rob banks. Does that mean I want to live in a place that has no statutes outlawing bank robbery? We have to do what we can. I'm willing to bet you don't travel much internationally because if you did you'd see how places like India and China are already suffering from their too-little-too-late approach to dealing with pollution. Spend a couple of days in Shenzhen without a mask. Take a stroll through one of the garbage neighborhoods in Cairo. Drink the tap water in Mumbai -- I dare you.

It always intrigues me that one of the leading institutions in America that a) recognizes global warming is real and b) sees it as a major threat to world stability and peace is the Pentagon. Their experts have studied climate change for decades. If you don't believe me (or a Prius-driving Neil Young...) will you at least believe the men and women in uniform who have taken a solemn oath to defend you?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-18/in-dire-report-pentagon-warns-bases-imperiled-by-climate-change

Your climate experts use computer “models “. They program them to say what they want them to say!

i have an idea. How about we limit the purchase of guitars to one per household?  Wouldn’t that help save the planet. If the east coat is gonna be under water soon, why did mister “at some point you’ve earned enough money” Obama, just buy a 15 million dollar beach front property? How many mansions does Bernie own now? Do you believe in the science of gender too, or are there 62 genders? 

[dhanners623]

2 hours ago, Paul14 said:

Your climate experts use computer “models “. They program them to say what they want them to say!

i have an idea. How about we limit the purchase of guitars to one per household?  Wouldn’t that help save the planet. If the east coat is gonna be under water soon, why did mister “at some point you’ve earned enough money” Obama, just buy a 15 million dollar beach front property? How many mansions does Bernie own now? Do you believe in the science of gender too, or are there 62 genders? 

 

You can always tell when a climate-change denier realizes he's out of his element: They bring up Obama. And "62 genders." And syringes. And China. And they ask dumb questions about the "correct" temperature of the Earth. They bring up stuff that has nothing to do with, well, climate science.

I am sooo tired of the outright lie that climatologists rig computer models to say whatever they "want" them to say. First of all, the research that's being published in academic journals is peer-reviewed. When your coal company CEO tells you global warming isn't an issue, that's not peer-reviewed. Other experts have not reviewed his raw data and methodology to see if what the coal company CEO said holds up to scrutiny. That's the opposite of what happens in climate science.

Secondly -- and it is sad that I have to explain this to an adult in 2019 -- that's just not the way scientific research works. You remember the Scientific Method from school, right? (Quick review: You make an observation. You form a question from the observation. You come up with a hypothesis or explanation that can be tested. You make a prediction and then you test it. Then you use the test results to either confirm the hypothesis or formulate a new one.)

The scientists I've known in my life (and I've known a lot) don't care where the facts take them. If the facts disprove their hypothesis, that's fine with them because then they can just refine their hypothesis or come with another one to test. That's the nature of science.

I'm old enough to remember when climate scientists warned that the Earth was cooling. That's what their models were telling them. But you know what? Over the years, they collected more data, and more diverse data. Their computer models got better. So now those improved models all point to the Earth heating up, and there is a major human component to it.

To the uninformed, it might seem like climatologists don't know what they're talking about. One generation, the Earth is cooling and the next, it is heating up. But what it really says is that climatologists are willing to alter their hypotheses as more data is collected and modeling improves. More data points = better and more accurate predictions.

You know who doesn't alter their view based on data? Climate-change deniers. They are unmoved by facts and data and improved modeling. They adopt one view as if it is some sort of religion and they never change it.

So, yeah, go ahead and use your plastic straws. You don't want a cleaner, healthier environment. We get that. But just because you don't believe in scientific progress doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

Edited August 30, 2019 by dhanners623

[Paul14]

36 minutes ago, dhanners623 said:

 

You can always tell when a climate-change denier realizes he's out of his element: They bring up Obama. And "62 genders." And syringes. And China. And they ask dumb questions about the "correct" temperature of the Earth. They bring up stuff that has nothing to do with, well, climate science.

I am sooo tired of the outright lie that climatologists rig computer models to say whatever they "want" them to say. First of all, the research that's being published in academic journals is peer-reviewed. When your coal company CEO tells you global warming isn't an issue, that's not peer-reviewed. Other experts have not reviewed his raw data and methodology to see if what the coal company CEO said holds up to scrutiny. That's the opposite of what happens in climate science.

Secondly -- and it is sad that I have to explain this to an adult in 2019 -- that's just not the way scientific research works. You remember the Scientific Method from school, right? (Quick review: You make an observation. You form a question from the observation. You come up with a hypothesis or explanation that can be tested. You make a prediction and then you test it. Then you use the test results to either confirm the hypothesis or formulate a new one.)

The scientists I've known in my life (and I've known a lot) don't care where the facts take them. If the facts disprove their hypothesis, that's fine with them because then they can just refine their hypothesis or come with another one to test. That's the nature of science.

I'm old enough to remember when climate scientists warned that the Earth was cooling. That's what their models were telling them. But you know what? Over the years, they collected more data, and more diverse data. Their computer models got better. So now those improved models all point to the Earth heating up, and there is a major human component to it.

To the uninformed, it might seem like climatologists don't know what they're talking about. One generation, the Earth is cooling and the next, it is heating up. But what it really says is that climatologists are willing to alter their hypotheses as more data is collected and modeling improves. More data points = better and more accurate predictions.

You know who doesn't alter their view based on data? Climate-change deniers. They are unmoved by facts and data and improved modeling. They adopt one view as if it is some sort of religion and they never change it.

So, yeah, go ahead and use your plastic straws. You don't want a cleaner, healthier environment. We get that. But just because you don't believe in scientific progress doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

You can always tell when a useful idiots think that anyone who disagree with them is stupid. They begin to be insulting. Surprised you haven’t played the nazi, racist, redneck, card. Sounds like you’ve been brainwashed by one of Americas finest schools..

Drive your Prius , but at least realize where electricity comes from!, as well as how polluting they are. If your precious Obama believed this crap, he wouldn’t have bought the property. & where in hell did he get 15 million dollars? Not from his pay checks. Do the math. Seems everyone who wants us to all make sacrifices, sacrifice nothing!

i don’t give a crap how you choose to live your life. I just ask for the same consideration.

[bobouz]

Sadly, every time something political sneaks in here, we get to see how poorly informed & self centered some folks are.

Absolutely pathetic.

[uncle fester]

I just saw a woodstock movie where they talked about Bob Dylan's song 'the times they are a changing' and how the views of the young people who were not in favor of the Viet Nam war were pushing back, not just going to accept the status quo of things just being right because an old person said it.  I feel we're in a similar time but instead of it being a war uniting a generation, it's computers and the age of information, now people have facts to make judgements, not just 'who heard what'.  Science is science, and information is available...  but there's still a pocket of people that have not been brought up on it or have accepted it, and there seems to be a large pocket of nay sayers.

Why do you not get a straw even though the impact is negligible?  Because it's right.  Turkey

[dhanners623]

8 hours ago, Paul14 said:

You can always tell when a useful idiots think that anyone who disagree with them is stupid. They begin to be insulting. Surprised you haven’t played the nazi, racist, redneck, card. Sounds like you’ve been brainwashed by one of Americas finest schools..

Drive your Prius , but at least realize where electricity comes from!, as well as how polluting they are. If your precious Obama believed this crap, he wouldn’t have bought the property. & where in hell did he get 15 million dollars? Not from his pay checks. Do the math. Seems everyone who wants us to all make sacrifices, sacrifice nothing!

i don’t give a crap how you choose to live your life. I just ask for the same consideration.

 

First Rule of Holes: When you find yourself in one, stop digging.

Stop digging.

[Paul14]

Would like to apologize to other forum members for allowing myself to get sucked into this ridiculous “conversation “. I usually avoid these idiots like the plague. 

Sorry everyone! This forum is supposed to be about acoustic Gibson’s not this nonsense, & I will do everything in my power to avoid this, in the future.

i will never have my mind changed by anything these people have to say, & vise versa.

these endless, pointless discussions don’t belong here! Not sure they have a place anywhere for that matter. I don’t even use straws, of any description.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Paul14

[Lars68]

Sorry Murph, but this new electric one with Crazy Horse that just came out is awesome.

Lars