When it rains...

[gearbasher]

Since I'm under self-imposed lock-down due to the current global situation, I decided to start playing again (it's been about twelve years). I took out my 1999 J-45 Rosewood that was stored with the strings tuned a full step down. I put new strings on it two days ago and started playing. Today, when I started to play I noticed this:

 

I guarantee the guitar was never dropped (in or out of the case). So what do you guys and gals think? Do I have problems?

Edited March 24, 2020 by gearbasher
spelling

[Boyd]

Sorry... but that looks a lot like the beginning of what happened to my 1974 J-50 Deluxe (which I bought new).

 

 

After about 10 years,  it became un-playable. The bridge also split. Got it fixed in the late 1980's and it's been fine ever since. Now, I didn't take care of that guitar at all, it sat leaning against the wall most of the time and was abused by kids and pets. I never heard anything about "humidification" back then, and the case was a total POS made out of chip-board that offered no protection. Nevertheless, it is still going strong today (after a re-fret and neck planing back around 2014).

I gather that this kind of crack is common on Gibson guitars of all ages. Have read a lot about it on their electrics.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Boyd

[Guth]

Oh man, that’s really unfortunate. I’ll let others who are more knowledgeable about damage such as this chime in with actual  informed advice. In the meantime I literally just finished creating and posting a thought  elsewhere on this forum regarding anyone who might find themselves unable to play guitar right now at a time when it would likely be most helpful. You have my sympathy.

[jedzep]

It looks like it could be an ominous looking finish check, indicating stress at that point, that may or may not be into the wood.  I would sand or carefully strip to the wood surface to see if there's actually wood grain separation.

A lesson in long term storage.  1 step down ain't enough.

Edited March 24, 2020 by jedzep

[RBSinTo]

 Gearbasher,

It certainly looks like the beginning of a neck break, but the good news is that if it is indeed, and is properly repaired, the neck will be stronger than it was originally. The 2001 j-45 that I recently bought had a broken neck that was repaired and is stable and I play it at properly tuned pitch without problems.

But again, get thee to a Luthier in have it checked by an expert.

RBSinTo

[gearbasher]

Yeah, I will have it checked out after this madness is over. Time to breakout my maple J-45. With my luck, lately, I'm afraid to do it.

[j45nick]

2 hours ago, jedzep said:

It looks like it could be an ominous looking finish check, indicating stress at that point, that may or may not be into the wood.  I would sand or carefully strip to the wood surface to see if there's actually wood grain separation.

 

Or you could hold the neck steady and put downward pressure on the back of the headstock to see if the crack opened. Of course, the headstock might snap off at that point, so there is some risk.

It does look to me like a surface fracture along a weak grain line. That is the characteristic shape you see on the surface.

[gearbasher]

When I took all the tension off the strings, I saw no movement and it felt exactly the same. I looked at it with a jeweler's loupe and to my (untrained) eye it looks like finish only. But, I'm not taking any chances.

[gearbasher]

Well, I just put the strongest lens in my loupe and tuned the guitar 1/2 step up. The crack definitely opened up. Only a hair and not visible to the naked eye, but I saw bare mahogany.  Now, I'm really depressed. Wish me luck with the maple one.

Edited March 24, 2020 by gearbasher

[j45nick]

2 minutes ago, gearbasher said:

Well, I just put the strongest lens in my loupe and tuned the guitar 1/2 step up. The crack definitely opened up. Only a hair and not visible to the naked eye, but I saw bare mahogany.  Now, I'm really depressed. Wish me luck with the maple one.

That can be fixed to where it is as strong as ever and completely invisible, but it is not a do it yourself job. This is a job for a really good repair guy to get it right.

[Boyd]

Indeed. Like I said, my 1974 J-50 was repaired in the late 1980's and has been fine ever since.

[75 Hummingbird]

Hello Gearbasher ,DO NOT do what jepzed recommended...Gibson is the place to get it repaired if you live in America as the C.I.T .I.E ,S regulations are tricky hoops to jump through if you are in Canada  .

Try Gibson first .

Good luck 

 

[RBSinTo]

15 minutes ago, 75 Hummingbird said:

Hello Gearbasher ,DO NOT do what jepzed recommended...Gibson is the place to get it repaired if you live in America as the C.I.T .I.E ,S regulations are tricky hoops to jump through if you are in Canada  .

Try Gibson first .

Good luck 

 

There are any number of excellent Luthiers to be found in the U.S., and Canada who could do this type of repair. Unless the neck was unrepairable and needed replacing, (and I understand Gibson will not provide replacement necks even to authorized dealers) there would be no compelling reason to ship it to Bozeman.

RBSinTo

[jedzep]

Calm down there 75HB. Now that Gearbash found that there is an actual break, my exploratory advice becomes obsolete. I think he's blown past my suggestion.

Dave

Edited March 24, 2020 by jedzep

[j45nick]

54 minutes ago, 75 Hummingbird said:

Hello Gearbasher ,DO NOT do what jepzed recommended...Gibson is the place to get it repaired if you live in America as the C.I.T .I.E ,S regulations are tricky hoops to jump through if you are in Canada  .

Try Gibson first .

Good luck 

 

I suspect you  haven't had much experience with Gibson repairs.  A number of us here have dealt with expert repairs shops in different locations around the US, as well as with Gibson. I'll match my independent repair guy against anyone, including the factory.

Gibson specializes in building guitars. Repairing them is an entirely different skill set

I'm sure Gibson could do a fine job on this, but they would not necessarily be my first choice.

[Dave F]

I had a similar scare a couple months ago. I was in the middle of a trade for a DIF and my Jackson Browne. When we came to terms, I took my advertised "mint" guitar out of the case and saw this crack. It was very embarrassing. 

 

Luckily it was just in the finish and there were no signs of cracks on the underside.

 

As far as repairs, I feel lucky to have a very good luthier locally. When he was associated with the local GC he was authorized to do almost any  warranty repairs for any brand. I've used him often enough that I feel comfortable enough to estimate repairs when shopping guitars.

[gearbasher]

I am the original owner. Any chance this can get repaired under warranty?

I know I'll have to wait until things get back to normal. But, if it's not a warranty issue, I don't know if I should have it repaired or sell it as is. 

[Holiday Hoser]

SUPER GLUE! no really

[RBSinTo]

7 hours ago, gearbasher said:

I am the original owner. Any chance this can get repaired under warranty?

I know I'll have to wait until things get back to normal. But, if it's not a warranty issue, I don't know if I should have it repaired or sell it as is. 

Gearbasher,

As for Gibson repairing it under warranty, that is a question you'll need to ask them directly, keeping in mind the "new" company may not honor warranties on guitars the "original" Gibson produced.

Your second question only you can answer. The value of a guitar with a potentially catastrophic problem, or even one that has had a cracked/broken neck repaired will be significantly reduced, even if the sound is unaffected.

If you like the guitar, and the way it plays, then fix it for yourself.

Otherwise be prepared to take a lot less for it than a physically complete guitar.

Two months ago, I paid $1,200.00 (Canadian) for my 2001 J-45 because the neck had been broken and repaired, and at the seller's original asking prices of $1,750.00 (Canadian), and then $1,500.00 (Canadian) he didn't even get a sniff from anyone else.

RBSinTo

 

[j45nick]

1 hour ago, RBSinTo said:

 

If you like the guitar, and the way it plays, then fix it for yourself.

Otherwise be prepared to take a lot less for it than a physically complete guitar.

Two months ago, I paid $1,200.00 (Canadian) for my 2001 J-45 because the neck had been broken and repaired, and at the seller's original asking prices of $1,750.00 (Canadian), and then $1,500.00 (Canadian) he didn't even get a sniff from anyone else.

RBSinTo

 

Fixing it yourself is not a good idea. A properly-done repair by someone who know what he or she is doing is the best solution.

Yes, no matter who does the repair, it impacts on the value of the guitar. I wouldn't even consider a guitar that had a home-grown repair, but would look at one the had a professionally-done, properly-documented repair. It will always have less value than a guitar that had never suffered the damage.

[fortyearspickn]

Of course Gibson has the final word on whether your warranty is still in force, but the fact there was a change in leadership at Gibson would not allow the company to legally cancel warranties already granted. In fact, even when a company which has issued warranties is acquired by another company, part of the 'transaction' includes setting aside an estimated 'reserve' for possible future claims. The new company acquires the assets and the liabilities of the company it acquires.   It's my limited understanding that if you are the original owner and registered your guitar as purchased in the US, even if you live in another country - you are covered for things like this.   Regardless, the cost of a neck repair on a great  guitar, is no reason to feed it into the wood chipper. 

[gearbasher]

Nick, RB said to fix it "for" myself. Don't worry, something like this I would not attempt on my own.

40 years, she ain't heading to a chipper. It was in perfect condition before this. Not a mark on her.

I was in the process of thinning the herd. I was planning on keeping only two guitars. My three finalists were the this guitar, my maple J-45 and a Guild D-55. This might have made the decision for me. Just wondering, if I do sell it, how would I make out better: selling it as is or paying for the repair (if no warranty repair is possible) and selling that way?

But, once again, all has to wait until things get back to "normal".

[j45nick]

1 hour ago, gearbasher said:

Nick, RB said to fix it "for" myself. Don't worry, something like this I would not attempt on my own.

40 years, she ain't heading to a chipper. It was in perfect condition before this. Not a mark on her.

I was in the process of thinning the herd. I was planning on keeping only two guitars. My three finalists were the this guitar, my maple J-45 and a Guild D-55. This might have made the decision for me. Just wondering, if I do sell it, how would I make out better: selling it as is or paying for the repair (if no warranty repair is possible) and selling that way?

But, once again, all has to wait until things get back to "normal".

My mistake for misinterpreting RB's words.

[75 Hummingbird]

As a matter of fact j45Nick  i have had experience with the identical issue and dealt with the shop i purchased the guitar through, and i dealt with Gibson directly .

The key here is to contact Gibson directly ,explain the situation and circumstances , , i went through this process in 1995 ...pre  computer ..document all contacts made at Gibson and when people there    say no ...you ask for their supervisor ,,so on so forth . Be cordial ,polite ,and vigilant...

Contact shop where you ordered or purchased  the guitar ,explain situation ,ask them to please make contact with Gibson representatives,and or connections .

Do Not Take No For An Answer  , Make  contacts through phone calls and e mail. Did i say document all contacts ! This is a quality issue ...say it ...Quality issue  .Don`t take no  for an answer 

The repair work done at Gibson was top notch and completely unnoticeable  ,  25 years later repair is completely unnoticeable... 

Best wishes .