SC4070 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Hi everyone. I'm new on this forum, and this is my first post here. I hope someone can clarify things with J-45 and Southern Jumbo. A) Both J-45 and Southern Jumbo have 24-3/4” scale length. B) Both J-45 and Southern Jumbo have the neck jointed at 14th fret. C) On J-45, bridges pins are located as far back on the bridge as possible. D) On Southern Jumbo, bridge pins are in the middle of the bridge. E) However, the saddle on Southern Jumbo is located slightly closer to the sound hole, too. F) The end of the fretboard for Southern Jumbo extends right to the edge of the sound hole G) The end of the fretboard for J-45 leaves a little space to the edge of the sound hole J-45 Gibson 2018 J-45 Standard Acoustic-Electric Guitar Vintage Sunburst | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com) Southern Jumbo Gibson 2018 Southern Jumbo Acoustic-Electric Guitar Vintage Sunburst | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com) Southern Jumbo should have shorter scale length if the saddle is closer to the sound hole, but it doesn’t. Southern Jumbo should have the neck joint at the 15th fret (or 14-1/2 fret at least), like J-160E, to extend the neck, but it doesn’t seem so. What construction differences allow Southern Jumbo to feature A), B), and E) simultaneously? Does Southern Jumbo have a slightly longer neck and appear 1/16th of an inch taller than J-45 if these two guitars are placed standing side by side? Do these two have different neck joint? **I used to own three to four J-45s of different characteristics and was periodically swapping out one or two with different J-45s for 10 years until a major financial setback forced me to sell them all. I currently own Southern Jumbo Original Collection from the 2020 catalogue, but I do not own any J-45s to make any physical comparisons. Thank you all for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egoidealmusic Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 My guess is that the exact placement of the saddle is dependent on where the bridge was glued on as the saddle is routed out after the bridge is on, hence some variation between individual guitars and not necessarily a difference between the J-45 and the Southern Jumbo. Unless, that is, you are talking about the historical models where the SJ has the belly down bridge, which would alter the appearance. From what I understand the only real difference between the two guitars is entirely cosmetic (fancier binding and tuners, etc.), though I certianly defer to my wiser compatriots here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) One bridge is bigger than the other, and it makes it look like the scale would be different, but they are not. You guys obsess about such petty things. Does your guitar sound good. If "Yes" play it. If "No" then return it. On some of my Martin's some have the bridge pins parallel to the saddle, and on others they do not. Why, I don't care its how Martin made them. Does they sound good? Yes and I play them. Edited July 8, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Originally the Southern Jumbo come out in the early 1940s as a “deluxe” version of the J45. As is typical for Gibson, the specs have bounced around a bit. In recent years there have been dozens of versions of the SJ and J45. Trying to make specific comparisons now is going to be quite a chore, except to point out the original idea - the Southern Jumbo is a “deluxe” version of the J45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 6 hours ago, egoidealmusic said: My guess is that the exact placement of the saddle is dependent on where the bridge was glued on as the saddle is routed out after the bridge is on, hence some variation between individual guitars and not necessarily a difference between the J-45 and the Southern Jumbo. Unless, that is, you are talking about the historical models where the SJ has the belly down bridge, which would alter the appearance. From what I understand the only real difference between the two guitars is entirely cosmetic (fancier binding and tuners, etc.), though I certianly defer to my wiser compatriots here! Thank you for your reply. This is the only legit answer I got here so far. I have noticed that fretboard sticks out a little further on Southern Jumbo, so it might be the case that the Southern Jumbo bridge is placed further away from the sound hole. My Southern Jumbo and the one on the posted link looks exactly the same. This might be the reason why, despite the saddle being closer to the sound hole, the the scale length remains the same as J-45. Thank you again for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 So on the SJ's and J-45's Gibson says the scale is 24.75", so why do you doubt them. They made the guitars. No matter what it looks like on paper, or in person, and if you need to get out a ruler and measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said: One bridge is bigger than the other, and it makes it look like the scale would be different, but they are not. You guys obsess about such petty things. Does your guitar sound good. If "Yes" play it. If "No" then return it. On some of my Martin's some have the bridge pins parallel to the saddle, and on others they do not. Why, I don't care its how Martin made them. Does they sound good? Yes and I play them. Thank you for your reply, and as you said, J-45 bridge looks "vertically wider. Probably I'd have to physically compare actual guitars to see if it is as "gauging" it online don't do any good. I'll have to wait at least until the next year to be able to afford a J-45, though. I have been hoping to come across someone that own both. However, I highly disagree with "if the guitar sounds good, just play and forget about everything else" attitude. Then I ask you this—As long as the guitar sounds good, am I supposed to let go of the engineering curiosity and the pursuit for knowledge?? Forums and social media are full of remarks as yours. So much so, that this type of comment is now a cliche. Most of the time, such people are in hope for appearing to be the "one talking the most sense here," but in reality, they make absolutely ZERO contributions to the community and the advancement of the field. This kind of comment is a type of unsolicited narcissism nobody is looking for. Nobody learns absolutely anything at all from the cliche comment. I have been playing guitar for 26 years, have read many forums over the years, but I have never commented or even create an account for any. I decided to do so this time, only because I thought that doing so might help "debunk the myth" or discover additional details related to J-45 and Southern Jumbo, and other people can learn something. I myself learned years ago that Southern Jumbo has pins closer to the saddle, from reading a forum thread. The internet search helped me pick out my Southern Jumbo last year. Search results on Google are hugely dependent on collective responsibilities these days. For the betterment of forum and the exchange of knowledge, I hope you refrain from dropping such a remark in the future. At least, you pointed out about the "vertical width" of the bridge, and I really appreciate your input because it was a detail that I failed to catch. Thanks again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, BigKahune said: Originally the Southern Jumbo come out in the early 1940s as a “deluxe” version of the J45. As is typical for Gibson, the specs have bounced around a bit. In recent years there have been dozens of versions of the SJ and J45. Trying to make specific comparisons now is going to be quite a chore, except to point out the original idea - the Southern Jumbo is a “deluxe” version of the J45. Thank you for your reply. J-45 originally had the rectangular bridge and eventually switched to "belly up bridge," but it never had the "belly down" in regular production as far as I am aware of; whereas, the old Southern Jumbo specs were all over. Specs are all over back then, and they aren't even braced the same way as today's. That's why I dropped the links for the current lineup as the samples. I'm strictly comparing the current "off the rack" lines. No Custom Shop lines and special editions involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 After owning a Martin D-35 for 35 years I thought I’d like a Gibson Acoustic as well.. Partly because I was playing in a British Invasion Band & am a Beatles fan.. I am a Rhythm Guitarist/Lead Vocalist. So I thought J-160E. I heard they sounded horrible & other negatives.. So, I decided to go out & play J-45’s & the J-160E.. There were some really good J-45’s & some that were less impressive.. I stumbled upon a new Gibson Bozeman Masterbilt J-160E in 2001. It had that cool Beatles look.. I did need Acoustic Electric for what I was doing. And I liked the convenience of the Volume & Tone knobs where they’re located. I played it with & without Amps. I chose a Vox AC-15. It sounded amazing plugged & unplugged. I went back & tried the 3 best J-45’s.. After comparing I thought the Bozeman Masterbilt J-160E was the best of the Slope Shoulder Gibsons for me. A short time later I was at a friends house & he pulled out his new Correct Spec Lennon J-160E & did his Show & Tell. I was impressed! We decided to play some Songs. He’s a better Guitarist than I. I wanted to play his & he wanted to play mine.. We had a great time… A couple weeks later he called me asking about my Guitar & told me had just sold his on EBay.. I said, Why? He said, it didn’t sound as good as mine.. Truthfully it didn’t. Now, I don’t know why other than it was built at the Bozeman factory & I got lucky.. J-45’s are great but don’t overlook the J-160E’s.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Hey and welcome Your curiosity and questions are perfectly suited for this Forum and many topics like them have been discussed. I don't have the answer, but hope you find it, if not here, then elsewhere on the web. You seem to be a serious slope-player and if the issues have any weight, there will probably be relevant stuff to dig up already. I recently did some general research on the fatal menzur probs from Nazareth between 1970 and 80. Found out quite a lot. . Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 22 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: Hey and welcome Your curiosity and questions are perfectly suited for this Forum and many topics like them have been discussed. Ditto. Welcome to the Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfish Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 These details have interested me also, ie bridge pin hole placement differences on basically the same body shapes. Maybe bracing differences AJ vs Standard. There are highly regarded Gibson enthusiast on the form, I don't know how many builders. As far as fret board length, as long as neck joint at body are the same, then just aesthetics. Maybe they move bridge placement for the saddle location differences. Great response to our latest A Hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 9 hours ago, E-minor7 said: Hey and welcome Your curiosity and questions are perfectly suited for this Forum and many topics like them have been discussed. I don't have the answer, but hope you find it, if not here, then elsewhere on the web. You seem to be a serious slope-player and if the issues have any weight, there will probably be relevant stuff to dig up already. I recently did some general research on the fatal menzur probs from Nazareth between 1970 and 80. Found out quite a lot. . Good Luck Thank you for your reply. One of the reasons why I decided to sign up and start a thread for the first time in my life is to consolidate as much information I learned into one thread as possible. I wanted other people to find out what I learned within 10 minutes, instead of spending 6 months on research. I want young players to go back playing to be rock stars; young luthiers to go back to making/designing our future dream guitars. At the same time, I wanted to find out about things I was wondering about for years. I was reading threads after threads, research after research for months. I wanted to address them directly instead of wasting any more time. By the way, I also own D-28, HD-28V, and OM-42, so I'm not 100% biased towards Gibson slope shoulders. (But if I have to pick only one for my escape from the zombie apocalypses, I pick a J-45/Southern Jumbo--24-3/4 scale, mahogany jumbo, always). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, SC4070 said: Thank you for your reply. One of the reasons why I decided to sign up and start a thread for the first time in my life is to consolidate as much information I learned into one thread as possible. I wanted other people to find out what I learned within 10 minutes, instead of spending 6 months on research. I want young players to go back playing to be rock stars; young luthiers to go back to making/designing our future dream guitars. At the same time, I wanted to find out about things I was wondering about for years. I was reading threads after threads, research after research for months. I wanted to address them directly instead of wasting any more time. By the way, I also own D-28, HD-28V, and OM-42, so I'm not 100% biased towards Gibson slope shoulders. (But if I have to pick only one for my escape from the zombie apocalypses, I pick a J-45/Southern Jumbo--24-3/4 scale, mahogany jumbo, always). Yes, I get it - do stay aboard these pages SC4070. You have a lot to offer, , , and perhaps receive. D-28 vs HD-28V - the difference is quite big, isn't it. I played the mid-ship a few years ago - the HD-28 and it was stellar. Almost too superstitious to speak about the one guitar I'd save or bring to the famous and fatal desert island. However it would probably be the re-necked/topped CW 1966. Simply because it is irreplaceable. , , , and sounds and performs fantastic. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 14 hours ago, Larsongs said: After owning a Martin D-35 for 35 years I thought I’d like a Gibson Acoustic as well.. Partly because I was playing in a British Invasion Band & am a Beatles fan.. I am a Rhythm Guitarist/Lead Vocalist. So I thought J-160E. I heard they sounded horrible & other negatives.. So, I decided to go out & play J-45’s & the J-160E.. There were some really good J-45’s & some that were less impressive.. I stumbled upon a new Gibson Bozeman Masterbilt J-160E in 2001. It had that cool Beatles look.. I did need Acoustic Electric for what I was doing. And I liked the convenience of the Volume & Tone knobs where they’re located. I played it with & without Amps. I chose a Vox AC-15. It sounded amazing plugged & unplugged. I went back & tried the 3 best J-45’s.. After comparing I thought the Bozeman Masterbilt J-160E was the best of the Slope Shoulder Gibsons for me. A short time later I was at a friends house & he pulled out his new Correct Spec Lennon J-160E & did his Show & Tell. I was impressed! We decided to play some Songs. He’s a better Guitarist than I. I wanted to play his & he wanted to play mine.. We had a great time… A couple weeks later he called me asking about my Guitar & told me had just sold his on EBay.. I said, Why? He said, it didn’t sound as good as mine.. Truthfully it didn’t. Now, I don’t know why other than it was built at the Bozeman factory & I got lucky.. J-45’s are great but don’t overlook the J-160E’s.. Thank you for your reply. When I purchased D-28 for the first time, I spent two months comparing it with D-35 at a local shop. Deciding on only one was painful. I almost bought the D-35, and changed my mind at the last minute. I still think about it time to time. D-35 is a phenomenal guitar of a great pedigree. It's that 1/4-inch bracing on a dread body... It sings so much even with lighter touch. Lightnin' Hopkins is one of my all time favorite bluesmen, and I would never rule out J-160E. But If I were to buy a J-160E, I would never buy brand new because the used market is littered with abandoned near-mint axes with much lower price. You absolutely right that J-160E often takes a lot of sh*t beyond its truthful merit/demerit. But J-160E is definitely not as bad as its reputations. Most people buy J-160E because of The Beatles. Obviously, it's the "correct gear" for that signature sound. If I were fascinated by the Fab Four, J-160E would be my first choice, too. When J-160E came out, there was no piezo system, so the only option was to use P-90. But using a P-90 makes the guitar prone to feedback, so Gibson had to use plywood top in compensation. Like Takamine, it's not designed to be played acoustically. What Gibson did wrong was its naming. If J-160E was named "ES-160 or ES-160E" consumers might have viewed it more as a kin to hollow-body archtops. Call it "J-XX" and people assume it is a J-45 with a pick-up. Many J-160Es are measured against great expectations, get disappointed with, and let go of within a year or two, unfortunately. But think about it--Lennon played J-160E, Harrison also played J-160E, SJ-200, and McCartney played J-180. They were all "singers first," and all of them chose models that are rather boxy sounding (even though, they all loved D-28, too). Guitars that aren't "divas" work great for singers. J-45/50/Southern Jumbo/Hummingbird, etc. have one foot in the same coffin as J-160E. They aren't overtone monsters, either. If guitars are solely judged for tone and sustain, probably Martins sound "objectively better" than Gibsons on average. But they work. Gibson acoustics work great, and we love them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 13 hours ago, Murph said: Ditto. Welcome to the Forum. Thank you sir. I hope to check this forum more often since I have an account now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 11 hours ago, philfish said: These details have interested me also, ie bridge pin hole placement differences on basically the same body shapes. Maybe bracing differences AJ vs Standard. There are highly regarded Gibson enthusiast on the form, I don't know how many builders. As far as fret board length, as long as neck joint at body are the same, then just aesthetics. Maybe they move bridge placement for the saddle location differences. Great response to our latest A Hole Thank you for your reply. I'm hoping to gather as many people that are interested in J-45/Southern Jumbo here and exchange information. Three members already chipped in details that I didn't even notice for before, and I'm really feeling the power of collective information exchange. This is amazing!! Why didn't I start this sooner? Another member has mentioned that the bridge placement might be different, and comparing with other details, I'm starting to believe this might be the case, but I don't know.... I can only speculate until bridge locations are physically measured and compared. I purchased a brand new Southern Jumbo last year (2020 Original Collection line). After comparing it with a few new and used J-45s and other used Southern Jumbos, my take is that "J-45 and Southern Jumbo are more alike than different, but the difference between the two are consistently the same." They are similar enough to make backup guitars for each other, but they can also be switched around to emphasize the different colors in songs/tunes. I love them both. I could have purchased J-45 instead, but my Southern Jumbo happens to have the greatest neck for my hand, and it sounds the way I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, E-minor7 said: Yes, I get it - do stay aboard these pages SC4070. You have a lot to offer, , , and perhaps receive. D-28 vs HD-28V - the difference is quite big, isn't it. I played the mid-ship a few years ago - the HD-28 and it was stellar. Almost too superstitious to speak about the one guitar I'd save or bring to the famous and fatal desert island. However it would probably be the re-necked/topped CW 1966. Simply because it is irreplaceable. , , , and sounds and performs fantastic. . Now, that is a fine looking County Western!! I love the inlays. I might even do something similar on my SJ with the truss rod cover... that's hot.... D-28 and HD-28V are different animals. D-28 is a canon with that famous "Banjo Killer" projection-- straight-bracing with the infinite headroom. HD-28V sounds just massive. The crushing bass and volume are too much in many occasions. It's an attractive guitar with lots of tone, but unless you are Robert Plant or something, that thing overpowers most singers out there. It hurts my eardrums when I lean over to the front of the guitar. Gibson acoustics, on the other hand, sound a lot more cooperative in general... Martins are still fun to dig in and make them roar. My neighbors might not be too happy, though lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, SC4070 said: Thank you for your reply. J-45 originally had the rectangular bridge and eventually switched to "belly up bridge," but it never had the "belly down" in regular production as far as I am aware of; whereas, the old Southern Jumbo specs were all over. Specs are all over back then, and they aren't even braced the same way as today's. That's why I dropped the links for the current lineup as the samples. I'm strictly comparing the current "off the rack" lines. No Custom Shop lines and special editions involved. Around 1968 Gibson was going with both belly up and reverse belly ADJ saddle bridges on the J45. And while Bozeman can build guitars with a precision Kalamazoo could only have dreamed of, I do not think it is fair to say specs were all over the place. While there were transition periods where Gibson would pretty much use up whatever old parts they had in stock every model had a spec sheet which was followed as closely as they could. Edited July 9, 2022 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, SC4070 said: Thank you for your reply. When I purchased D-28 for the first time, I spent two months comparing it with D-35 at a local shop. Deciding on only one was painful. I almost bought the D-35, and changed my mind at the last minute. I still think about it time to time. D-35 is a phenomenal guitar of a great pedigree. It's that 1/4-inch bracing on a dread body... It sings so much even with lighter touch. Lightnin' Hopkins is one of my all time favorite bluesmen, and I would never rule out J-160E. But If I were to buy a J-160E, I would never buy brand new because the used market is littered with abandoned near-mint axes with much lower price. You absolutely right that J-160E often takes a lot of sh*t beyond its truthful merit/demerit. But J-160E is definitely not as bad as its reputations. Most people buy J-160E because of The Beatles. Obviously, it's the "correct gear" for that signature sound. If I were fascinated by the Fab Four, J-160E would be my first choice, too. When J-160E came out, there was no piezo system, so the only option was to use P-90. But using a P-90 makes the guitar prone to feedback, so Gibson had to use plywood top in compensation. Like Takamine, it's not designed to be played acoustically. What Gibson did wrong was its naming. If J-160E was named "ES-160 or ES-160E" consumers might have viewed it more as a kin to hollow-body archtops. Call it "J-XX" and people assume it is a J-45 with a pick-up. Many J-160Es are measured against great expectations, get disappointed with, and let go of within a year or two, unfortunately. But think about it--Lennon played J-160E, Harrison also played J-160E, SJ-200, and McCartney played J-180. They were all "singers first," and all of them chose models that are rather boxy sounding (even though, they all loved D-28, too). Guitars that aren't "divas" work great for singers. J-45/50/Southern Jumbo/Hummingbird, etc. have one foot in the same coffin as J-160E. They aren't overtone monsters, either. If guitars are solely judged for tone and sustain, probably Martins sound "objectively better" than Gibsons on average. But they work. Gibson acoustics work great, and we love them. My Bozeman Masterbilt is Mahogany Back & Sides with Solid Spruce Top. It’s a Ltd FSR Masterbilt from early 2000-2001.. It truly sounds better than any J-160E I’ve ever heard.. Even Johns’ on Beatles records had the sort of dull Plywood sound but Abbey Road Engrs made it sound wonderful. Mine sounds like a top of the line J-45 unplugged.. But plugged in it definitely has the P-90 sound, very Beatle sounding, yet still maintains higher quality Solid Spruce Top sound.. But, still, somehow maintains a great J-45 Sound too.. Love that Guitar! My brother acquired a late 60’s D-28 a few years before I got my ‘75 D-35.. Both Guitars sound so great! Together they are very complementary.. A couple months ago I acquired a new HD-28E with the L.R. Baggs Anthem Electronics.. I would love the right J-45 to round out my Acoustic dreams.. It’s out there.. I’ll keep searching.. You have a wonderful collection of Acoustics. Enjoy! Welcome to the Forum! Edited July 9, 2022 by Larsongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I do not think there is much of a mystery here as much as it is overthinking it all. In the beginning it was the rosewood body which differentiated the SJ from the J45/50. But as Gibson switched to mahogany bodies on the SJ they started to tone down the bling on the J45s going from say seven to three ply rosette and such, Then in the late-1940s Gibson added the neck bunding to the SJ. It almost seems as if Gibson needed to do something to explain why they were charging more for the SJ. And if you look at Gibson's history prior to the 1940s it was the level of bling rather than structure which determined price. So, an L2 cost more than an L1 which in turn cost more than an L0 and so on. But other than early on the bridge and then that period during the 1960s when the SJ got square shoulders before the J45, structurally the guitars were mirror images of one another, Bozeman though gives you more choices even on their standard off the shelf guitars, You may have two standard bracing footprints to choose from and several neck carves. But when it comes to bridge placement, as example, that is not something they have a lot of leeway to goof around with. The placement is all about proper intonation. So from the get go to suggest that Bozeman went with a noticeably different bridge placement on the SJ and J45 makes absolutely no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Another great thread! I thought we were stuck in the summer doldrums. Welcome Aboard and thanks SC4070 ! Hope you hang around. My only observation - Gibson over the years has made big and small changes to models as well as individual guitars - standard vs custom vs limited.... which make it very difficult to generalize or quantify their changing models. My thought has always been "If you've seen one J45, you've seen one J45." They're all different - some a little, some a lot. Some accidentally or whimsically - some as an evolution of a new 'sub-product line'. (Original, Modern, Historic, Custom, as nauseam) . J45s at one time were square shouldered, for example. While the Southern Jumbo is bling-ier, they had an even more plain version of the J45 - the WM-45 for several years. Country Western was a blinged down from the iconic H'Bird - sort of the opposite direction of the Southern Jumbo to the iconic J45. So, while I enjoy learning of these differences and similarities, as a tire kicker, they are above my ability to nail down. Like a kaleidoscope. But I agree - it is important to research these differences and similarities. They may someday point to black and white answers to 'How does bridge pin distance from the saddle affect sound/tone?" Thanks again for joining us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) I haven't had a standard SJ and I currently do not have a newer standard J-45. but have in the past Here's stock photo's of the current SJ Original and standard J-45. I noticed the 20 fret neck and with and without the binding it's like a 21 fret. The Rosetta gives an illusion of different placement but I think the edge of the fret board is even with the sound hole on both models Here's a few models I've had but never noticed any big differences. Here's a Legend and a vintage '42 J-45 then below it the Legend, one of the newer Banner '42 SJ and a vintage '52 J-45. Below that is a Dwight Yoakam Honky Tonk Deuce with a Kris Krisstofferson SJ. notice the Hony Tonk has 19 frets and the KK has 20. It shows the difference in closeness to the hole. Edited July 9, 2022 by Dave F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I have not learned a whole lot in 55+ years of playing the things other than there are only two kinds of guitars out there - those you like and those you do not like as much. What is definitely different is when I started playing you would walk into a store and what Gibsons you saw hanging on the wall were the best they had to offer no matter what the model. These days you darn near need an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of all the variations on any given model Bozman is offering, But Bozeman has their own ideas as to what sounds and feels best while I assume their rather dizzying array of offerings is the result of what their marketing team assures them is needed to entice modern players to part with their hard-earned scratch. But I do not sweat things such as bridges as Gibson had that one figured out by the early-1940s. And the only research which is really worth much remains going out and playing the guitars. Difference is, I could walk down 48th St in NYC and by the time I reached the end of the block had gotten my hands on every model Gibson had to offer. These days it would take a search of Biblical proportions to get that accomplished, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC4070 Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 18 hours ago, zombywoof said: Around 1968 Gibson was going with both belly up and reverse belly ADJ saddle bridges on the J45. And while Bozeman can build guitars with a precision Kalamazoo could only have dreamed of, I do not think it is fair to say specs were all over the place. While there were transition periods where Gibson would pretty much use up whatever old parts they had in stock every model had a spec sheet which was followed as closely as they could. Thank you for your reply. All manufacturers during WWII had to use whatever materials available to keep producing their goods. Saying, "Gibson slacked off and skimped on material choices" would be unfair. Saying, "Specs were all over the place" only states the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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