columbine and gun control???

[Duende]

 

As a person who has little or no access to guns' date=' do you sit in your house at night worrying that you have no gun to protect yourself and your family? [/quote']

 

hello my friend...

 

I speak for me, and all those I drink with in my local pub and my family- and my answer is not a tall.

I sit at night reading, playing guitar and thinking about things that turn my mind inside out like theology and political debates.

 

I am not being deliberately cocky and attempting to be oppositional for the sake of it, but I know of no one in my area who worries about this.

 

If something happens it happens. Why waste life worrying?

 

If England suddenly got all paranoid and normal people armed then all the criminals would arm in garden variety criminal activities.

 

Let me use an analogy to explain. It is a rock concert and some people get worried because they cannot see so they stand on tip toes. The people behind then stand on tip toes and the people behind then do too. Before you know it the whole audience is on tip toes and no one can see anything more than if they stood normally...

why bother in the first place?

 

Matt

[Bluemoon]

 

hello my friend...

 

I speak for me' date=' and all those I drink with in my local pub :) and my family- and my answer is not a tall.

I sit at night reading, playing guitar and thinking about things that turn my mind inside out like theology and political debates.

 

I am not being deliberately cocky and attempting to be oppositional for the sake of it, but I know of no one in my area who worries about this.

 

If something happens it happens. Why waste life worrying?

 

If England suddenly got all paranoid and normal people armed then all the criminals would arm in garden variety criminal activities.

 

Let me use an analogy to explain. It is a rock concert and some people get worried because they cannot see so they stand on tip toes. The people behind then stand on tip toes and the people behind then do too. Before you know it the whole audience is on tip toes and no one can see anything more than if they stood normally...

why bother in the first place?

 

Matt

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Right, it is a perception issue. Although there is the odd shooting here and there in England, it is rare. People know that. They don't live in fear that somebody is going to break into their home and shoot their family. As a result, they don't feel the need to own a gun. They also don't feel like they have a right to own a gun. Your average citizen believes that the only people who should own a gun is a policeman and a someone in the military (or a farmer who wants to shoot rabbits).

 

 

i owned a gun for many years because I enjoyed taking it to the range and shooting it. It was fun. I didn't buy it for self-defense. I kept i unloaded in my closet. By the time I got to the gun and loaded it, I would be dead. Once my daughter was born I sold it. I figured that the odds my daughter would shoot herself by accident were much higher than someone breaking into my home and killing us all.

 

That doesn't mean I believe that everyone should follow my example and that just because I don't think I need a gun that someone else shouldn't have one.

 

To each his own.

 

It is little like smoking. I gave it up because it was killing me. I don't think cigarettes should be banned just because they are deadly. If you want to kill yourself, go ahead and smoke. I loved it for many years, but it wasn't worth it in the end.

[KSG_Standard]

By Golly. As the right wingers say' date=' "arm everyone and you wouldn't have these mass killings."

 

[b']Yep, every insecure gun worshiper, wanting to be a cowboy hero to prove he's got gonads, would be pulling their weapons to get in on the action. They'd kill a lot more innocent folks if they can even get it out of the holster without shooting themselves. [/b]

 

Maybe we should start with laws to stop production of so-called "assault weapons" and restricting toting privileges. (Yea I know the right wing mantra -- "what's an assault weapon?")

 

 

Do you ever say anything that's even remotely intelligent? What a freakin cartoon character.:)

[KSG_Standard]

 

hello my friend...

 

I speak for me' date=' and all those I drink with in my local pub :) and my family- and my answer is not a tall.

I sit at night reading, playing guitar and thinking about things that turn my mind inside out like theology and political debates.

 

I am not being deliberately cocky and attempting to be oppositional for the sake of it, but I know of no one in my area who worries about this.

 

If something happens it happens. Why waste life worrying?

 

If England suddenly got all paranoid and normal people armed then all the criminals would arm in garden variety criminal activities.

 

Let me use an analogy to explain. It is a rock concert and some people get worried because they cannot see so they stand on tip toes. The people behind then stand on tip toes and the people behind then do too. Before you know it the whole audience is on tip toes and no one can see anything more than if they stood normally...

why bother in the first place?

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Suppose the government outlaws all guns, all of the law abiding citizens turn their guns in to the police. What do you think the criminals will do? Will the criminals turn their guns over to authorities?

 

When mass shootings occur, why do they always take place in "gun free" zones? Has anyone ever heard of a mass shooting at an NRA convention? or a Police Station? Murder, Robbery and Rape are already against the law, if there is a law against these things, then why do so many of these crimes occur? How many people will be saved or helped by disarming law abiding citizens?

[Bluemoon]

 

upposed the government outlaws all guns' date=' all of the law abiding citizens turn their guns in to the police. What do you think the criminals will do? Will the criminals turn their guns over to authorities?

 

When mass shootings occur, why do they always take place in "gun free" zones? Has anyone ever heard of a mass shooting at an NRA convention? or a Police Station? Murder, Robbery and Rape are already against the law, if there is a law against these things, then why do so many of these crimes occur? How many people will be saved or helped by disarming law abiding citizens?[/quote']

 

I agree. So how do you, though, get illegal guns out of the hands of criminals? What's the solution?

[The Mick]

Eye wouldn't look for one here.

[charlie brown]

Well, and let's not forget the "Media!" "If it bleeds, it leads!" And That leads to higher ratings=more money, etc.

There's a fine line (all too often) between reporting what needs to be known, and contributing to giving a platform for "terrorism," (foreign or domestic), whether it's city gangs, or radical religious or political factions. And/or, just selling an agenda...any agenda! We (the world that has TV) see this stuff, 24-hours a day! Over and over, in video and audio tape loops. It's mind numbingly repetitive, and in some ways, quite useful...for "brainwashing." Scare us all to death, increase our already hightened paranoia, and you can do anything, especially, if it's masqueraded as "change!" The Information Age, Internet, etc. are all wonderful, in so many ways, but they're also conduits, for too many folks with irresponsible personal, political, religious, sexual...whatever, agendas!

 

How many here, have recieved a seemingly serious "forward" that sounded really good, or like..."that's so true," only to find out, it was a complete fabrication and/or just true enough, to be "dangerous?" LOL! We all have, right? Well, I see way too much of this type "information," on the news...especially "breaking news," where they (often) don't have ALL the facts, but have to tell us something, even if it's WRONG, cause "God forbid" they be "out scooped," by another source, station, network, etc. (there's that ratings=money thing, again)!

So, perceptions, once given (the bell's been rung), are sometimes pretty hard to "take back!" As is the perception of "America" to the world, or the "World" to America. Works both ways...

 

CB

[Gitfidl]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090420/us_time/08599189141600

10 years since Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold permanently etched the words Columbine High School into this nation's collective memory

 

Well OK it has been 54 years since the A-bomb was dropped' date=' 46 years since the Cuban Missile Crisis ... whatever .. 40 years since man walked on the moon. Time flies when we are having fun.

 

The carnage in Littleton, Colorado - 12 classmates and a teacher before

Well look literally HUNDREDS of teenagers have killed themselves and classmates and innocent bystanders during the same time period in a car they acquired from their parents and some of them were just lousy drivers and some were DUI. Some were under the influence of drugs.

 

Hundreds of teenagers have drowned in pools, been shot in Iraq, been shot or hurt -- while holding up a 7-11. Hundreds of teenagers have been hurt or killed falling, swimming, sky diving, operating machinery ... I don't know ... messing around with the old bull in the cow pasture ... lots of teen agers get killed and hurt as do lots of 20 year olds and even 30 year olds. Jet skis and snow mobiles, dune buggys, off road vehicles. Just about ANY WAY YOU CAN DO IT SOME TEENAGER HAS DONE IT.

 

In the decade since, massacres perpetrated by deranged gunmen have continued - including the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre in which Cho Seung-Hui killed 32 people and wounded many others.

 

Well in a nation of 300,0000,0000 there is a percentage who are going to be nuts. Some are going to be nuts all the time and some are just nuts when something makes them nuts (we all know about nuts) We lock up nuts and "the system" (the government) releases them until one day they do something that was predictable.

 

the powerful gun lobby that often strangles gun-control laws. Americans in general have cooled significantly to the idea of restricting gun rights. A poll released last week by CNN showed that support for stricter gun laws was at an all-time low, with just 39% of respondents in favor.

 

Well most of us do not see any consequence to restrictive laws. Most of us do not see how THE GOVERNMENT does anything that makes things better. Look at New Orleans -- federal and state and local government screw up -- from the inadequate levees to a lame "plan" to gather in the Super Dome and get shot by street gangs to 50,000 people stranded on a bridge -- is this really the trio you want to have running your life? Besides they are now confiscating your savings and your retirement (YES - CONFISCATING IT!)(think about it) ... they are not taking your guns they are taking your life's savings and trashing it -- and YOU VOTED FOR IT.

 

So you want them to take your guns, your money, your house, your job (yes that too), your education, your kids -- just how much do you want to GIVE to the government? When will YOU decide you have had enough -- the rest of us are damned tired of it.

 

 

Two years ago, he was in his apartment in Blacksburg, Virginia, listening to sirens sounding across the campus outside his window. A half-dozen friends of his were in the classroom where Cho Seung-Hui opened fire, and the names of some of the dead belong to people he knew.

 

Well I only presume that you have not experienced any kind of significant losses before. Some of us have started the day with 100 people and at the end of the day only 5 were left. There were no sirens. Others of us have watched someone wither away until they were gone. Either way they are gone. Most of us have lost parents. Some have lost siblings and even children.

 

If you have no experienced with losses you are leading a charmed life. During WWI the Western Union "boy" had a black bicycle and a black hat and a black coat and spent the entire day delivering death notices to mothers and fathers of U.S. servicemen. Thousands of them. They died so you could be free. Now you are complaining about being free. If you do not like being free -- do it someplace else where they already have a dictator.

 

OUR own government just declared **returning veterans* and *pro-life Christians* enemies of the state (thank you for voting for that). They have declared as enemies of the state ANYONE who supports the 2nd amendment or the 10th amendment - so in other words BELIEVING in the U.S. Constitution makes you an enemy of the Obama state -- would you say we are already on the road to Nazi Germany?

 

Could you please STOP wanting more government oppression?

 

"The idealist in me is shocked and angry," Woods says, that restrictions on guns have eased rather than tightened in the wake of tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech. "But the cynic in me is not surprised at all. I think if this was peanuts or pistachios causing all these deaths, then we'd be all over it. But there is no amendment about peanuts or pistachios in the Bill of Rights.

 

That is not idealism it is foolish emotionalism. Liberal emotionalism. A few years ago the voters foolishly wanted a "three strikes" law .. now California prisons are FULL of non-violent pot smokers. The state can no longer "afford" to pay its prison guards and/or build enough prisons and yet the judges keep sending them for life in prison.

 

Part of being a good citizen is to use your head when you vote. Your odds of dying because of a deranged killed is LOWER than your odds of getting West Niles Virus from a mosquito, or being poisoned by peanuts or catching some horrific flu or cancer or heart disease.

 

They are spending money in the trillions now because NOBODY wanted to use an common sense in buying a house. There were of plenty of warnings and nobody listened. Now we are in the worst Depression EVER -- which is going to get a lot worse before it gets better (IF IT EVER GETS BETTER). YOUR government caused it.

 

Aren't you tired of making your world WORSE simply because you do not choose to exercise any personal restraint and you expect the government to BE father for you? Guns are like 195 on a list of 100 important things to do. Maybe they are 295.

 

Indeed, the debate seems to be almost one-sided nowadays, with an ongoing backlash against gun control. Another law up for debate in Texas, for example, would prohibit most companies from barring employees from keeping guns in their cars in company parking lots. In Montana, only last-minute deal making between the House and Senate stripped a new law of language that would have given residents the right to carry concealed weapons with or without a permit.

 

How much do you think it would cost Montana or Texas to enforce all the laws you want them to have? How many 7-11 hold-ups or workplace shootings were PREVENTED because there is a law that says you need a permit to go and shoot your neighbor?

 

Common sense: IT IS ALREADY A CAPITAL OFFENSE TO KILL ANYONE WITH ANYTHING. YOU DO NOT NEED ONE MORE LAW. You can go to work with nail guns that can shoot and kill people and gasoline and butane and at lest 100 other MEANS to kill IF YOU WANT TO KILL. Most of us (299,999,990) do not want to kill anyone. So we don't. We simply are not killers. Get it?

 

the expansion of the so-called Castle Doctrine, a legal theory enshrined in common law. It is used to justify deadly force in the defense of one's home

 

This is just stupid -- come on -- everyone has a right to defend their own life. Don't be ridiculous

 

in the past three years, the National Rifle Association has encouraged states to write the doctrine into statute

 

Let's get real here -- no matter what anybody writes into laws -- IF YOU EVER SHOOT ANYONE for ANY REASON your life becomes a career for at least 4 law firms and you are penniless. We all know that.

 

The National Rifle Association is not that powerful. The NRA has also been declared and "enemy of the state" along with returning veterans and Christians -- and anyone who opposes gay marriage -- yes they are a threat to homeland security. That is the crazy stupid idiotic new Hitlerian regime in Washington.

 

As far as fleeing goes -- you have to be kidding. You are talking foolishly. Where do you run to from your bedroom? That's dumb.

 

 

when the justices struck down what had been the strictest gun-control ordinance in the country - the ban on handguns in murder-plagued Washington, D.C.

 

Washington DC has been a poster child for lawlessness LONG BEFORE THEY LIFTED THAT BAN. You are told to leave your office and 5 PM and go home with the commuters. It is not safe at night. Black street gangs maraud at will and NOBODY DOES A THING to stop it. Hotels lock their doors and refuse to let you enter. Things get VERY BAD after 5PM is Washington DC And it has been that way for decades.

 

More thoughts ..

 

Mexico has a national prohibition against owning guns. You cannot even posses an empty shell casing. Strict zero tolerance. This is testament to how valuable gun restrictions are. The streets of Tecate Mexico (I was there last Wednesday) are crawling with armored personnel carriers (the Army) and Humvees with 50 cal mounted on them. Nothing moves in Mexico Tecate - Otay _TJ - Rosarito (and I am sure .. El Paso, Juarez -- all up and down the border. The Mexican Army is out in force.

 

And yet the gangsters have 50 caliber weapons and THEY drive Humvees abd travel in convoys and HAVE KILLED as man as 75 people one ONE WEEKEND. They left a TJ policeman beheaded in the trunk of a car (just like in Iraq) and the policeman was heavily armed (just like in Iraq).

 

And THAT is ABSOLUTE GUN CONTROL at its highest expression!

 

The new DHS -- declaring as it the political right as "enemies of the state" (Janet Napolitano -- the Obama state --anyone who opposes Obama is an enemy of the state and that includes Christians)(we are to be the Jewish minority that German Nazi's murdered in camps). So Obama and Napolitano have started a religious war -- where we are enemies just BEING a Christian. They circulated this to all police departments in the country and refuse to retract it.

 

Basically the DHS assures you that it has no intention of protecting you from real threats for which DHS was established (port security, biological weapons, chemical weapons, active "cells" inthe U.S. of Islamic radicals -- like the ones that attempted thje 1992 WTC bombing... and finally succeeded in 9/11). Instead DHS is going to conduct Stalin like purges of Christians and any other nuisance conservatives.

 

DHS has no intention of doing ANYTHING about the "porous border" that is a significant threat to your safety while you ramble on about guns. DHS did NOTHING to help anyone in New Orleans or San Diego or Iowa. They do little to stop illegal immigration. They tolerate THREATS TO YOUR SAFETY and you worry about guns? And Columbine? They are laughing at you.

 

Your enemies test systems. They fly cessnas into areas "innocently" to see what happens. When they feel confident the plane won't be innocent. We have seen them DO IT for more than 40 years. Do you think it stopped.

 

The Chinese intend you no harm when they poison your dog or cat, send you poisoned toothpaste, give your kids lead impregnated toys, make poisoned milk or send you cancer causing clothes or household products -- and you are making jokes of peanuts and pistachios (versus guns). That reveals how poorly informed about what is really a concern. Mostly just emotional about guns.

 

YOUR government (as we speak) will take your $100,000 savings or IRA and make it worth $1,000. In that way YOUR GOVERNMENT stole $99,000 from you IN ADDITION to the taxes you are going to owe on their foolishness. If that does not add up to YOU BECOMING a Mexican peon I cannot imagine what does.

 

Yes -- you have become a European peasant. Perhaps your ancestors came here from Russia or Ireland or Poland AS PEASANTS and were exuberant to experience freedoms they never dreamed about in European. And now you voted to end them..... and they are gone. You did not want them. They are too much trouble. You had to THINK and be informed. That's work.

 

A post like this one reveals the foolishness of liberal thinking. Liberals see government as benign. Jefferson warned against that kind of thinking. Some (in Virginia) felt the common man should not be allowed to vote because of exactly what is reflected in this post.

 

Your economy has been devastated, your freedoms have been raided, your heritage has been sold off and you have been reduced to peasantry. We are now "enemies" of the state by what we believe (the new holocaust) -- by our religion. And Christians are the enemy religion and Janet Napolitano is Jewish -- interesting switch. Well I am a Christian and it is no longer polite to humor this (liberal) kind of thinking. We are well on the road to becoming a fascist Nazi state because of it.

 

(Respectfully offered as my opinion)

[Hoyt]

 

Umm.....they did. :-

 

Didn't work.

 

They did? Then how come every right winger on here has been showing off -- or boasting about -- his "assault weapon(s)" since I started on this forum. Geeez, it's like some cult -- some of them consider Waco and Ruby Ridge shrines.

 

The terrorists that we need to worry most about are right here in this country arming up for some friggin fearful reason, only known to them.

[FennRx]

i think the only person who posted a pic of a rifle was me....and it was only to piss you off, which worked quite well. and its not just so-called "right wingers" who appreciate firearms. the forum's ultra-lib has invited me to his home to recreationally shoot my weapons of mass destruction. seems AR15s cross party lines.

 

i love how you so gladly label anyone who disagrees with you a terrorist or a nazi. i bet you jerk off every time Ed Rendell opens his mouth. you sound exactly like him.

[The Mick]

i think the only person who posted a pic of a rifle was me....and it was only to piss you off' date=' which worked quite well. and its not just so-called "right wingers" who appreciate firearms. the forum's ultra-lib has invited me to his home to recreationally shoot my weapons of mass destruction. seems AR15s cross party lines.

 

i love how you so gladly label anyone who disagrees with you a terrorist or a nazi. i bet you jerk off every time Ed Rendell opens his mouth. you sound exactly like him.[/quote']

 

Eye did too

 

[FirstMeasure]

 

They did? Then how come every right winger on here has been showing off -- or boasting about -- his "assault weapon(s)" since I started on this forum. Geeez' date=' it's like some cult -- some of them consider Waco and Ruby Ridge shrines.

 

The terrorists that we need to worry most about are right here in this country arming up for some friggin fearful reason, only known to them.

[/quote']

Because the ban Expired. It didn't reduce crime, like the Gun Ban Nuts would have you believe. Crime reduction during that period of time was due to the imroved economy and job market. All the Assault Wapon ban did was take America out of the Assault Weapons business, making it nearly impossible for us to estimate how many Assault Weapons wer manufactured in other countries, as we had no interest in the market.

 

I'm on the left of most issues, but this one all RIGHT.

[surfpup]

Ice cream anyone?

[FennRx]

mick,

 

sorry mate i forgot about your AK! what type is it? i recently picked up a cheap WASR. bottom of the barrel i know, but super fun to shoot. and i can use wolf ammo without problems.

[The Mick]

mick' date='

 

sorry mate i forgot about your AK! what type is it? i recently picked up a cheap WASR. bottom of the barrel i know, but super fun to shoot. and i can use wolf ammo without problems.[/quote']

 

Egyptian Maddi

[Hoyt]

i think the only person who posted a pic of a rifle was me....and it was only to piss you off' date=' which worked quite well. and its not just so-called "right wingers" who appreciate firearms. the forum's ultra-lib has invited me to his home to recreationally shoot my weapons of mass destruction. seems AR15s cross party lines.

 

i love how you so gladly label anyone who disagrees with you a terrorist or a nazi. i bet you jerk off every time Ed Rendell opens his mouth. you sound exactly like him.[/quote']

 

 

I appreciate firearms too -- have a few fine six shooters. But I don't appreciate those made primarily to kill people, intimidate people, or play to their insecurities (and, in some cases, perversions).

[The Mick]

 

 

I appreciate firearms too -- have a few fine six shooters. But I don't appreciate those made primarily to kill people' date=' intimidate people, or play to their insecurities (and, in some cases, perversions).

[/quote']

 

six shooters are made primarily to kill people

[The Mick]

[charlie brown]

Ice cream anyone?

 

Yes, "Rocky Road," please! lol

 

CB

[FennRx]

 

Yes' date=' "Rocky Road," please! lol

 

CB[/quote']

 

one of my personal favorites.

 

ever had the edy's butterfinger? i swear to god they put smack in that stuff.

[Murph]

This topic is always going to cause problems.

 

People who don't want law abiding people to own guns just because guns scare them, and they don't want anybody to own guns, are never going to change their opinion.

 

People who hunt, like guns and will protect their family at any cost, aren't going to change their opinion.

 

So, what's the point?

 

Just sayin'.

 

Murph.

[Gitfidl]

On this Gun control question is there not a gun control debating society or maybe Gibson could even have a gun section outside of the lounge' date=' would it be impertinent to suggest a thread for those that are into them to post pictures.Leisure, sport, self protection, I don't mind, ( Just don't shoot the messenger.)

[/quote']

 

I agree with this .. I do not know WHY a guitar forum has to be continuously posted with liberal political bull**. ... This week the damned liberals declared me to be an enemy of the state: (a ) because I am a veteran (and proud of it) ( because I am a Christian (and proud of it) AND therefore cannot agree with some liberal tenets (c ) because I respect our own national Constitution and liberals do not (d ) because I own at least one gun (e ) because I am in an association NRA (life member)(and VFW and American legion and a home church) they do not like that ( f) because I respect some state and local laws that are contrary to the new Fascist regime in Washington.

 

I do not want to talk about this liberal crap ... so if the friggin liberals would stop baiting I'D BE CONTENT to talk about guitars until whenever my last day is (sometime in the next 10 years). BUT seems like every 2 or three days they say something new and I ignore most of it ... since it is nonsense. Been ignoring it for years.

 

The problem with ignoring it is that in time we (non-liberals) will all be in concentration camps and being exterminated for the "new world order" -- the "1000 year Empire" (Reich) -- which is where they are doing (and rather quickly). So I will not be quiet about that.

 

This GUN CONTROL stuff is not about gun control. It is about establishing a class of people they can differentiate and subvert. If the Nazi's had declared all of the Jews "gun owners" and then exterminated THEM it would have been OK's by a lot of Europeans. But when they called the exterminations "the Jewish problem" it was clear they were into genocide. The liberals are using things like pro-life and gun control to establish classes of people they intend to subvert (the Gulag)

[The Mick]

the con's post just as much my friend

[pumpkin]

 

Hey' date=' I am with you. I owned a .357 for many years. I got rid of it when my daughter was born.

 

 

[/quote']

 

this is confusing to me. why would you get rid of protection AFTER you have the most valuable thing in the world to protect?

[Hoyt]

 

I agree with this .. I do not know WHY a guitar forum has to be continuously posted with liberal political bull**. ... This week the damned liberals declared me to be an enemy of the state: (a ) because I am a veteran (and proud of it) (B) because I am a Christian (and proud of it) AND therefore cannot agree with some liberal tenets (c ) because I respect our own national Constitution and liberals do not (d ) because I own at least one gun (e ) because I am in an association NRA (life member)(and VFW and American legion and a home church) they do not like that ( f) because I respect some state and local laws that are contrary to the new Fascist regime in Washington.

 

I do not want to talk about this liberal crap ... so if the friggin liberals would stop baiting I'D BE CONTENT to talk about guitars until whenever my last day is (sometime in the next 10 years). BUT seems like every 2 or three days they say something new and I ignore most of it ... since it is nonsense. Been ignoring it for years.

 

The problem with ignoring it is that in time we (non-liberals) will all be in concentration camps and being exterminated for the "new world order" -- the "1000 year Empire" (Reich) -- which is where they are doing (and rather quickly). So I will not be quiet about that.

 

This GUN CONTROL stuff is not about gun control. It is about establishing a class of people they can differentiate and subvert. If the Nazi's had decalred all of the Jews "gun owners" and then exterminated THEM it would have been OK's by a lot of Europeans. But when they called the exterminations "the Jewish problem" it was clear they were into genocide. The liberals are using things like pro-life and gun control to establish classes of people they intend to subvert (the Gulag)

 

 

I think "those "liberals just enjoy anal-retentive-gun nuts going beserk on the internet and wasting lot of time posting BS that just proves our point(s).

 

 

 

BTW -- I meant to comment on the beautiful engraved shotguns posted earlier. I don't think those were made to kill people. Those rambo looking things so many here seem to covet, are a different story.