New J45 questions

[styler]

Hello guys .

Ive had my J45 for a month now and I have a few questions for yall . 

 First off Im very happy with the sound and playability. Always looking to improve  because I'm a hopeless tinkerer lol.   That said I've tried a couple of things with mixed results.

I got a saddle from Colosi and bone pins.  the saddle to me took away from the natural woody sound and lost the good bass it had so I went back to the factory saddle. kept the pins and they look very nice.

 I cant say the pins really did anything other than look nice and fit great. To be clear im not knocking the saddle .  Bob did a great job and only needed a couple of tweaks to fit . Looks beautiful too. It just didn't work on this guitar.

 The tusk saddle has grooves for the strings. worn in ? normal?  factory cut in?  their not deep and this is a new guitar from GC . I just don't usually see grooves.

 Action is 5/64 at the low E and 3/64 high E     12 fret.   sound is very balanced when strumming open chords but to me the highs aren't very bright especially when finger picking. This normal or maybe the high side needs to come up a smidge?

 No buzzing anywhere. I played around with relief and like where its at. Actually, I forgot the number but its pretty staright .. thinking I ended up with .005 .. could be a tad more but I did find a sweet spot.

factory strings and I do have some new String joy natural balanced lights and a set of Daddario xs lights  I'm going to try when i get ready to swap. what's your thoughts on these. 

 For now I really want to stay with the lights .. im sure mediums will open the tone some but the lights sure play well. 

 Thanks for any advise guys I know that was a mouthful.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by styler

[slimt]

I prefer keeping parts on a new guitar original till  they wear.out.   As for strings. I like light guage.     But thats me. 
 

any of my older non truss rod guitars get extra light guage.  Nothing more 

archtops. Med guage. 
 

 

[Larsongs]

Congrats on the new J-45!

I agree on these J-45’s anyway the original Parts don’t need replacements.. I prefer lights as well. I’ve tried Mediums & Heavy.. I don’t find Lights  lack anything heavier guage strings can do.. Other than be easier to play & probably easier on the necks..

Edited December 29, 2023 by Larsongs

[zombywoof]

I have been playing 60+ years and have yet to hear any appreciable difference in sound when moving between bridge pins.  My only requirement is they be unslotted because right or wrong I believe they save wear and tear on the bridge plate.  Other than that, it us all about aesthetics.  I tend to go with old ebony pins but only because I have more than a few sets laying around in the parts box.  Waste not, want not.

The saddle though is something I will give some thought to when a replacement is needed.    I did not need dog hearing to notice a difference in something like my 1961 B45-12 (which I string Big Joe Williams 9 string style) when I went with a bone saddle to replace the original rosewood one.  I was to say the least not a happy camper.   Admittedly though I am in the distinct minority when it comes to this preference.

My string selection though comes down to not only sound but the aspects of the build.  So, I do not give a fig what strings sound best on something like my 1932 L1.  I am more concerned about a bridge plate which is no thicker than a business card.  So, my starting point is going to be 11 gauge low tension strings.  On something like my 2013 Fairbanks where I have no such concerns it is a wide-open contest for what I go with.  Generally, though I prefer strings wound on a round core simply because I like the feel.  And as my hands are not getting any younger and in a nod to the age of most of my guitars, I prefer something like a 52 gauge low E although I keep a good supply of heavier gauge B and high E stings on hand as I still prefer strings with more meat on them when it comes to the higher end. 

[PrairieDog]

I’d let it settle in before you start tweaking.  It’s going to take some time to come into its full voice, to really open up.  

Folks keep saying it here, and I have experienced myself now, you can play 5 different guitars of the same model and they all sound different.  I’m sure it all has a lot to do with chance of when you walk in, and how long since it’s been since any of them came off the truck. Also, humidity, how much it was played in the store, age of strings, etc. Depending on where you are, the mid and higher end guitars can languish at GC for months, this gives them more time to settle in when you try them out.  The J45 I first played at GC had no tone at all, just dead.  The guys here told me it sounded like it was wet and try others.  Tried the same one again four months later, it was sweet and hard to put back on the rack.  

I suggest you just let it get adjusted to your place and see what happens before you start tweaking.  This is the reason GC gives you that 45 day return.  We picked up a gorgeous sounding 2019 NAMM Taylor Ltd that thrilled in the store but it sounded like a lead pipe in our house.  We were so disappointed, figuring we had been swayed by acoustics in the special room our shop has for the better guitars.  We set it aside, intending to take it back.  Picked it up a few weeks later to get ready to return it, and honest to god, angels sang out of it.  (Don’t tell my DIF, but now it’s my favorite sounding guitar. ) There was nothing wrong with it after all. It just needed to rearrange itself to fit in the new digs.   

[styler]

Thanks guys . what yall think of the grooves in the saddle?   I just thought they were weird. Even considered ordering a new replacement tusk.

 i do have some experience making saddles and fitting .. again i just though it was odd to have grooves .

 Prairie Dog I agree that it needs to settle . that said it seems pretty stable and has a great sound .  For now I'm more inclined with leaving it alone but curiosity always gets me . sometimes for the worse lol

Edited December 29, 2023 by styler

[Sgt. Pepper]

The tusk saddle has grooves for the strings. worn in ? normal?  factory cut in?  their not deep and this is a new guitar from GC . I just don't usually see grooves.

 Action is 5/64 at the low E and 3/64 high E     12 fret.   sound is very balanced when strumming open chords but to me the highs aren't very bright especially when finger picking. This normal or maybe the high side needs to come up a smidge?

Seems like these are the only two questions you asked in your post.

1. I have never had a new guitar (acoutsic) show up with grooves pre-made in the saddle.

2. Action is up to your personal taste. If you like the action leave it.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[PrairieDog]

8 minutes ago, styler said:

Thanks guys . what yall think of the grooves in the saddle?   I just thought they were weird. Even considered ordering a new replacement tusk.

 i do have some experience making saddles and fitting .. again i just though it was odd to have grooves .

 Prairie Dog I agree that it needs to settle . that said it seems pretty stable and has a great sound .  For now I'm more inclined with leaving it alone but curiosity always gets me . sometimes for the worse lol

Ah, I thought you were having issues with how it sounded.  If it sounds great, why mess with what you paid for? I understand tweaking electrics, that is an industry unto itself, but acoustics are so individual  to woods and build used, it seems a shame to shake up the combo that you liked enough to buy.  

Edited December 29, 2023 by PrairieDog

[styler]

4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

The tusk saddle has grooves for the strings. worn in ? normal?  factory cut in?  their not deep and this is a new guitar from GC . I just don't usually see grooves.

 Action is 5/64 at the low E and 3/64 high E     12 fret.   sound is very balanced when strumming open chords but to me the highs aren't very bright especially when finger picking. This normal or maybe the high side needs to come up a smidge?

Seems like these are the only two questions you asked in your post.

1. I have never had a new guitar (acoutsic) show up with grooves pre-made in the saddle.

2. Action is up to your personal taste. If you like the action leave it.

Me either that's why I asked.   Wondered if it was new Gibson thing.  I guess it doesn't hurt anything.  I always felt the string should settle where it wants on the top of the saddle.

Not directed there by a groove.  

[dhanners623]

Congrats on the purchase! There’s something to be said about letting a new guitar settle in, but every guitar is different. And “tweaking” (not “twerking”) is just something we do.

That said, don’t reject the Colosi saddle just yet. Instead, maybe wait awhile and then have it installed by a professional repair person. Yeah, I know Bob includes DIY instructions, but a pro might catch something you don’t. I had a Colosi saddle installed on my ‘16 J-35, replacing the Tusq saddle that came with it. (I also had the Tusq nut replaced with an ebony one.) The change in saddle made quite a difference. For one thing, the stock Tusq saddles may be cut for a J-45, but they are still one-size-fits-all. Having one fit precisely to your saddle slot, chosen string gauge, preferred action, etc., can make a difference for the better.

Just have fun with the guitar! (And keep it properly humidified….)

[styler]

27 minutes ago, dhanners623 said:

Congrats on the purchase! There’s something to be said about letting a new guitar settle in, but every guitar is different. And “tweaking” (not “twerking”) is just something we do.

That said, don’t reject the Colosi saddle just yet. Instead, maybe wait awhile and then have it installed by a professional repair person. Yeah, I know Bob includes DIY instructions, but a pro might catch something you don’t. I had a Colosi saddle installed on my ‘16 J-35, replacing the Tusq saddle that came with it. (I also had the Tusq nut replaced with an ebony one.) The change in saddle made quite a difference. For one thing, the stock Tusq saddles may be cut for a J-45, but they are still one-size-fits-all. Having one fit precisely to your saddle slot, chosen string gauge, preferred action, etc., can make a difference for the better.

Just have fun with the guitar! (And keep it properly humidified….)

Not saying I'm a pro but I have been tinkering with guitars since about 1997.    The Colosi saddle did require fitting (but not much)   I was able to make it the exact dimensions of the tusq one.

 I have a pretty good method of sanding to keep the bottom square and straight .  I even polish the bottom once I have it at the height I'm looking for . As far as length and thickness. I shoot for being able to slide it in very easily, just to the point that it will not fall out when turning the guitar over. Chatting with Bob he said he would rather them be loose than tight. 

I just like the tone of the Tusq better. the bone didn't have a bad tone at all.  mainly to my ears The Tusq has a tighter, louder boom on the low E . This was the main reason I fell for the guitar to begin with so loosing that wasn't an option.    I may give it another try down the road. 

[Dave F]

Does your bridge have the under-saddle pickup?

According to the specs, it should have a LR Baggs VTC Under Saddle Pickup.

Most switch to a bone saddle to get that bone to wood connection.

I would think if you slid out that wire, the sound would be very different. Whether you like it or not ????????

I've had tusq saddles naturally get string grooves in them.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Dave F

[styler]

Yes it has the under-saddle pickup.   

[Dave F]

56 minutes ago, styler said:

Yes it has the under-saddle pickup.   

I think that would defeat the purpose of why most switch to a bone saddle. Just my opinion.

You should be able to just pull that woven wire out from underneath without doing anything that cannot be put back if you want to compare the sound. That would only make a slight difference in your saddle height. It will give you an idea of what the bone against wood transmitting to the top sounds like.

[styler]

I appreciate the input here Dave and I understand what you're saying but that would be a non-productive deal for me just because I want to keep the pickup. 

 I have played around with that before on other guitars. I once had a D42 that had a Martin Thin line Gold. I messed around with various saddle material and even took the pickup out for comparison. I could hear the difference but there again I wanted the pickup.  I ended up with a walrus tusk saddle and nut. that guitar had some big sound.  For me it was a great bluegrass guitar (which I don't play much) but really not a singer's instrument.  I will say the J45 works well in that area. 

 

[Dave F]

Even though I have no need of pickups nowadays, I still like to experiment and try things out. I have enough acoustics with and without pickups that I shouldn't be concerned with it. On the '68 J50 I just fixed up, Iput an Anthem in it. The under saddle with a microphone with a bone saddle. I was very impressed with the sound. I slapped a rare earth on an Alverez parlor a couple weeks ago. I was impressed. I had a Jackson Browne with the Trance system. It was the truest acoustic sound I've ever heard. It was also a pain in the a$$ to lug around. Just this past week I picked up a J160e. I haven't got around to checking out the P90 yet.

Enjoy that j45!

[styler]

Ok so as I said I'm a hopeless tinkerer.  Both my wife and I woke up with scratchy throats, so we have not left the house. been sitting around playing almost all day. 

 I began to think about what was said about letting it settle and making sure the Colosi saddle fit correctly. And don't give up on it yet .

 I did some checking on the saddle and found that it was just a smidge out of square on the bottom. My bad.  Not much but enough that it needed tweaked. I have some very precise machinist blocks to check with and after being sure the bottom is square, flat and straight I re-installed it. I still think it took a small about of boom out of the base but gave it a tighter sound. 

 It's still rich and has a very nice overall balance. maybe even gave the trebles a little more definition too.  I'll leave it in, I think.

I have to say as far as esthetics go, the saddle and pins really look nice. These are double inlay bone pins. The factory one look pretty plain. 

 Oh and Im letting it settle bahahahahah

 

 

[sbpark]

If it's a new J45 standard, Iv'e and similar experiences with replacing the Tusq saddle with a bone saddle, and I've owned several J45 Standards. The bone made the guitars brighter and more clear, but also lose some low end. After many tries I just concluded that I don't care for newer J45 Standards and eventually settled on a 2018 J35. Haven't changed a thing on it, has the original Tusq saddle, etc. 

As far as the "grooves" in the Tusq saddle, this in my experience is completely normal, and again I've seen it on pretty much every acoustic with a Tusq saddle, with the caveat that I wouldn't call them "grooves" per se, more like mild indentations. 

These days I really don't tinker with my guitars. I used to back in the day and always thought it would make the guitar better, but if I'm being honest all the bridge pin swapping, etc., really never did much other than lighten my wallet. Now I'd rather spend more time playing and getting better than wasting time with the "upgrades". My best upgrade to date that has improved my playing and my tone has been actually practicing. 

[Larsongs]

49 minutes ago, sbpark said:

If it's a new J45 standard, Iv'e and similar experiences with replacing the Tusq saddle with a bone saddle, and I've owned several J45 Standards. The bone made the guitars brighter and more clear, but also lose some low end. After many tries I just concluded that I don't care for newer J45 Standards and eventually settled on a 2018 J35. Haven't changed a thing on it, has the original Tusq saddle, etc. 

As far as the "grooves" in the Tusq saddle, this in my experience is completely normal, and again I've seen it on pretty much every acoustic with a Tusq saddle, with the caveat that I wouldn't call them "grooves" per se, more like mild indentations. 

These days I really don't tinker with my guitars. I used to back in the day and always thought it would make the guitar better, but if I'm being honest all the bridge pin swapping, etc., really never did much other than lighten my wallet. Now I'd rather spend more time playing and getting better than wasting time with the "upgrades". My best upgrade to date that has improved my playing and my tone has been actually practicing. 

I agree..

After all the years the J-45 has been around I think Gibson has figured out the formula.. New Guitars sound like new Guitars.. It will take time for them to open up. It will take years for them to achieve their Sound potential. About the only thing they need when new is a good Setup & some new Strings.. And to be played…

[E-minor7]

All in all it seems you are satisfied with the new slope (which must be a black nut Standard ?). Stick to it and see what happens.

I remember how the voice changed after switching the (non-grooved but compensated B-string) tusq-saddle for bone on my 2010 Std. Both sounded splendid. Also recall it had a lot of sticky black grease running from the neck the first hot summer and actually seemed very compressed for many years. No prob when f-picked - very pronounced when strummed. It's a bit of a monster, yet highly treasured. Gets muddy as the strings fade and eventually becomes slightly boring. Not on tape though. .   
 

Enjoy the guitar and tell how it goes 

[MorrisrownSal]

I had a bone saddle in my most recent purchase, a custom Cherry Martin 000. It had grooves in the G, B, and high E slots. And after the 1st string change, I am pretty sure I heard an u desirable ping sound from the B groove area.

 

i bought 2 new Martin nuts. One high quality bone and one Tusq. I took my time sanding, and both saddles solved the problem. And…. I think I like the sound of the Tusq better… don’t shoot me!

[Murph]

3 hours ago, Salfromchatham said:

…. I think I like the sound of the Tusq better… don’t shoot me!

I prefer tusq too.

It will self groove in time.

Play more, tinker less.

[PrairieDog]

4 hours ago, Salfromchatham said:

I had a bone saddle in my most recent purchase, a custom Cherry Martin 000. It had grooves in the G, B, and high E slots. And after the 1st string change, I am pretty sure I heard an u desirable ping sound from the B groove area.

 

i bought 2 new Martin nuts. One high quality bone and one Tusq. I took my time sanding, and both saddles solved the problem. And…. I think I like the sound of the Tusq better… don’t shoot me!

Hey,  newbie question, what is an “undesirable ping sound from the B groove area?” I hear that all the time when I’m tuning my DIF.  I assumed it was just the string adjusting and figured “physics”, but now I’m wondering if it is something I need to be worried about or fix? 

Edited January 3 by PrairieDog

[Murph]

Sometimes it's a "pong".

Sometimes it's a "ding".

Back in the 70's once, I heard a "zoinks" and the actual letters popped up on the ceiling...

 

[styler]

3 hours ago, Murph said:

Sometimes it's a "pong".

Sometimes it's a "ding".

Back in the 70's once, I heard a "zoinks" and the actual letters popped up on the ceiling...

 

You must've been around some of those magic mushrooms.    I may have had a little experience with those sounds too.🤪

Prairedog i think you and Salfromchatham  are talking about two different things.  Those pinks your hearing when tunning. could be from the strings being tight in the nut or even seating in the pins. 

Edited January 3 by styler