Beginning my search for an acoustic that is a pleasure to play

[Sheepdog1969]

The first guitar I ever played, and learned to play on, was an acoustic.  My Dad had a Yamaha FG-150 that he bought new, presumably in the early 1070's. From time to time, he would get it out and strum a bit for me and my brother. Dad came from a musical family that played/performed at taverns and bars for Tips, just to make a few extra bucks to survive.  Dad knew the basics, and could play enough chords to sing and entertain us. He also knew the names of those chords, which really helped me when I begged him to teach me how to play. I was  8 when he felt my hands were big and strong enough to start to learn. And, after much pain and frustration throughout countless hours of practicing on that Yamaha, he told me that I had learned all that I could from him because I already knew everything he knew. I was on my own from there, and did my best to learn by listening (and playing with) songs on the radio and/or the albums I had access to. At that time, none of my friends played, and I couldn't learn online, because the internet didn't even exist at that time. I didn't even touch or play another guitar, other than that Yamaha, until I was in my teens. Guitar lessons were not an option, because my financially strapped parents were already paying for me to learn trombone through the Public School music program. 

Although I am glad that I began learning and playing on an acoustic guitar, it saddens me that it took me so long to learn that not all acoustics were as difficult to play as that Yamaha was/is. The second guitar I ever played was my friends POS beginner electric. I couldn't believe how easy it was to fret, especially bar chords. I remember having to force myself to stop using so much pressure as I played chords, because I was literally mashing both E strings off the fretboard  when I played a simple G chord, (and with every bar chord). I had to mellow out with my picking/strumming, as well. (Dad never taught me about changing strings, so the Yamaha had super dead, super old strings on it.)  I think I was a junior in High School before I got to play a good acoustic, and I remember it was an Ovation with the curved back. It was big and heavy, but I swear it fretted like my '83 Explorer. And, best of all, it sounded full and loud with little to no effort from either hand. Over the years I have played a few decent acoustics, but I have never played a Gibson or a Martin, so I really don't know what real quality feels like when played, (let alone what real quality sounds like when played by me). 

I have been gifted two acoustics, in addition to my Dad's Yamaha (which he gave to me when I turned 13).  Both are Oscar Schmidt's by Washburn,  One is a 12 string that's Model number is 292035-01   OD312. The other is a 6 string, but it is in a case in the back, and it's not worth bothering to pull it out just to get it's model number.  Both have to be super low cost, and I know the 12 was made in China, (I bet the 6 was too.). The 12 is actually easier to play than the six, and both are way easier to play than the Yamaha. But that's not saying much. Because of it's size, and the 12 strings, the 12 has a richer tone, but neither of them are anything to write home about.  They all just seem to have a thin tone, for lack of a better word. I am actually ok with how the 12 string is easier to fret that the other two six strings, even with the added complexity of 12 strings. Sadly, it takes so long to tune vs. a 6, that I don't play it as much as I should. I also shy away from playing the 6 strings because of how hard they are to fret/play, which sucks. When strung with lighter strings, they obviously play easier, but the tone goes from thin to emaciated.

I am hoping to find a quality acoustic that I don't have to fight to play, that produces decent tone, and isn't so darn purdy and 'spensive that I won't want to play it out at the fire pit. I am not looking to buy this guitar tomorrow, and it is kind of a wish list thing right now. I am thinking pre owned instead of new, and  don't mind scuffs/wear as long as they don't hurt how it plays. I also would rather sacrifice some tone for ease of play, if I have to.

Any suggestions?

 

[duane v]

I have 12 acoustic guitars and my favorite is my 1990 J-160E. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It depends on what sound you want. I’m known as the Martin guy, but the best IMHO acoustic I ever played was a Preston Thompson. Now to get one, there are no entry level models, and you’re gonna drop 5k minimum for the least expensive one.

You want the Martin sound or the Gibson thump or something different? I used to love Dreads and still do, but they are just too big for me. I like 000 size guitars. 

[RBSinTo]

8 minutes ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

The first guitar I ever played, and learned to play on, was an acoustic.  My Dad had a Yamaha FG-150 that he bought new, presumably in the early 1070's. From time to time, he would get it out and strum a bit for me and my brother. Dad came from a musical family that played/performed at taverns and bars for Tips, just to make a few extra bucks to survive.  Dad knew the basics, and could play enough chords to sing and entertain us. He also knew the names of those chords, which really helped me when I begged him to teach me how to play. I was  8 when he felt my hands were big and strong enough to start to learn. And, after much pain and frustration throughout countless hours of practicing on that Yamaha, he told me that I had learned all that I could from him because I already knew everything he knew. I was on my own from there, and did my best to learn by listening (and playing with) songs on the radio and/or the albums I had access to. At that time, none of my friends played, and I couldn't learn online, because the internet didn't even exist at that time. I didn't even touch or play another guitar, other than that Yamaha, until I was in my teens. Guitar lessons were not an option, because my financially strapped parents were already paying for me to learn trombone through the Public School music program. 

Although I am glad that I began learning and playing on an acoustic guitar, it saddens me that it took me so long to learn that not all acoustics were as difficult to play as that Yamaha was/is. The second guitar I ever played was my friends POS beginner electric. I couldn't believe how easy it was to fret, especially bar chords. I remember having to force myself to stop using so much pressure as I played chords, because I was literally mashing both E strings off the fretboard  when I played a simple G chord, (and with every bar chord). I had to mellow out with my picking/strumming, as well. (Dad never taught me about changing strings, so the Yamaha had super dead, super old strings on it.)  I think I was a junior in High School before I got to play a good acoustic, and I remember it was an Ovation with the curved back. It was big and heavy, but I swear it fretted like my '83 Explorer. And, best of all, it sounded full and loud with little to no effort from either hand. Over the years I have played a few decent acoustics, but I have never played a Gibson or a Martin, so I really don't know what real quality feels like when played, (let alone what real quality sounds like when played by me). 

I have been gifted two acoustics, in addition to my Dad's Yamaha (which he gave to me when I turned 13).  Both are Oscar Schmidt's by Washburn,  One is a 12 string that's Model number is 292035-01   OD312. The other is a 6 string, but it is in a case in the back, and it's not worth bothering to pull it out just to get it's model number.  Both have to be super low cost, and I know the 12 was made in China, (I bet the 6 was too.). The 12 is actually easier to play than the six, and both are way easier to play than the Yamaha. But that's not saying much. Because of it's size, and the 12 strings, the 12 has a richer tone, but neither of them are anything to write home about.  They all just seem to have a thin tone, for lack of a better word. I am actually ok with how the 12 string is easier to fret that the other two six strings, even with the added complexity of 12 strings. Sadly, it takes so long to tune vs. a 6, that I don't play it as much as I should. I also shy away from playing the 6 strings because of how hard they are to fret/play, which sucks. When strung with lighter strings, they obviously play easier, but the tone goes from thin to emaciated.

I am hoping to find a quality acoustic that I don't have to fight to play, that produces decent tone, and isn't so darn purdy and 'spensive that I won't want to play it out at the fire pit. I am not looking to buy this guitar tomorrow, and it is kind of a wish list thing right now. I am thinking pre owned instead of new, and  don't mind scuffs/wear as long as they don't hurt how it plays. I also would rather sacrifice some tone for ease of play, if I have to.

Any suggestions?

 

Sheepdog1969,

You are asking an open-ended question which will result in as many different suggestions as replies. 

You would be better served visiting music stores and playing instruments that fit the parameters you've set.

Good luck on your quest.

RBSinTo

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

14 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Sheepdog1969,

You are asking an open-ended question which will result in as many different suggestions as replies. 

You would be better served visiting music stores and playing instruments that fit the parameters you've set.

Good luck on your quest.

RBSinTo

 

Once again a Canuck is the voice of reason.

Edited April 20 by Sgt. Pepper

[duane v]

When I need to play lead on an acoustic I break out my Gibby Bluesking EC30. Plays like butter.

 

 

[RBSinTo]

30 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Once again a Canuck is the voice of reason.

Chief,

As you know, this question is asked with regularity on every guitar site, and  almost always results in every respondant suggesting their  favorite guitar, regardless whether it fits or not what the poster is looking for, so I don't recommend specific instruments.

If that makes me the voice of reason, so be it.

RBSinTo

[Sheepdog1969]

49 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

You are asking an open-ended question which will result in as many different suggestions as replies. 

Obviously you are correct. I guess I want to know what I should be looking for in an easy playing quality acoustic, so I can have a place to start. I only know from hand cramping, tough to play low end stuff. Maybe I'm asking to much of an acoustic, but I hope not.

Here are 2 of my current torture devices.

[duane v]

I thought it was a fair enough question from the OP.

there are members here with tons of acoustic guitars that can provide real life experience, and can help with making a decision. ..... I've purchased a few guitars off the experience of others.

 

[Sheepdog1969]

54 minutes ago, duane v said:

When I need to play lead on an acoustic I break out my Gibby Bluesking EC30. Plays like butter.

 

 

Wow Duane, she is stunning! That's the kind of guitar that makes the voices in my head scream, "Put that down! That's expensive!".  Dollars to donuts, I wager that guitar has never been played at a Hillbilly fire pit, nor should it ever be, lol.

[duane v]

5 minutes ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

Wow Duane, she is stunning! That's the kind of guitar that makes the voices in my head scream, "Put that down! That's expensive!".  Dollars to donuts, I wager that guitar has never been played at a Hillbilly fire pit, nor should it ever be, lol.

As a matter of fact I played it at Venice Beach on an 80 degree day and sweat all over it and now the  finish is a little cloudy on the upper bout. I play my guitars and I'll play them anywhere.

[Sheepdog1969]

I would love to be able to walk in to a guitar store/music shop and be able to take a high end acoustic off the rack and play a top of the line model just to see how the cream of the crop feels when I play it. Sadly, I don't even have the knowledge base to be able to look at the rack and determine what that guitar would be. There are so many high end Gibby's and Martins, with so many variations/models designed for different purposes, I wouldn't know where to begin. I have to assume that there are specific lines/models of quality acoustics that lend themselves better to "sitting around the campfire" playing vs. plugging in and playing on stage at The Grand Ole Opry. Just looking for a a place to start.

Edited April 20 by Sheepdog1969

[Larsongs]

2 hours ago, duane v said:

I have 12 acoustic guitars and my favorite is my 1990 J-160E. 

I have several Acoustics as well. I have 2 that are my favorites. One is my 2001 Gibson Bozeman Masterbilt J-160E Solid Top.. One of the best looking & sounding Gibsons I’ve ever played.. The other is my 1975 Martin D-35. It has always sounded & played great.. It has aged beautifully & just keeps sounding better..

Best of both Worlds.. Mahogany & Rosewood…

But, I am very interested in trying a new USA California built Guild D-55E.. 

Edited April 20 by Larsongs

[merciful-evans]

The only acoustic guitar I ever played that handled perfectly belonged to David Pleasance. It was built for him by "a little guy in Spain". 

My 1st acoustic was very like the Yamaha FG150 in your (SheepDog's) pix. Mine was a FG140 I think. I filed down the bridge to make it playable. It was fine then.

My next acoustic was a Fylde Oberon which I got direct from the chief luthier Roger Bucknall. A much better guitar yes, but it was still hard to play and I did exactly the same thing to that one. 

My Spanish (nylon string) guitar is a pig to play. The action cannot be lowered any further due to its design / construction. It was the most awkward one to play in the whole shop. I choose it because it sounds amazing. 

So good luck on your quest! I will be very interested to see how you fare.

[bigtim]

You mention you have a few cheaper and older guitars. You haven't mentioned anything about your budget. 

 

However, I am going to recommend Taylor guitars. I find them to have the best playing experience for me. 

 

I have a couple currently. 

 

Even their 214 model plays very nice. 

 

Some people complain that their tone is too bright. Well that's another thing I like about them myself. 

 

Good luck

[sparquelito]

I don't think that there is a brand or a price point to "the nice playing acoustic". 

I have owned and played some off brands, and I have owned and played  some rather dear ones. 

Hands down the best and easiest playing acoustic was my JBP acoustic electric dreadnought. 
I got it many years ago, on sale for $138 (down from $189 I seem to recall) and it became my workhorse, go-to guitar. For years. 

Sadly, I loaded out and packed poorly after a gig on the river years ago, and a stack of PA speakers fell on it. 
Crushed it to kindling. 
😐


 

[Sheepdog1969]

5 hours ago, sparquelito said:

I don't think that there is a brand or a price point to "the nice playing acoustic". 

I have owned and played some off brands, and I have owned and played  some rather dear ones. 

Hands down the best and easiest playing acoustic was my JBP acoustic electric dreadnought. 
I got it many years ago, on sale for $138 (down from $189 I seem to recall) and it became my workhorse, go-to guitar. For years. 

Sadly, I loaded out and packed poorly after a gig on the river years ago, and a stack of PA speakers fell on it. 
Crushed it to kindling. 
😐


 

You sir, are a mind reader.  Sparq, it goes without saying that, "You're the man.".

As I often do, I bury the lead. I am fortunate enough to think less about cost, and more about functionality. I defiantly neglected to discuss my budget, which would have made it far easier for wise Forum members to respond accurately to my original post. Not to sound like a D-bag, but if I wanted to buy an acoustic for $10K, I could. However, I am known in certain circles as "Cheap".  Personally, I prefer the term "frugal".  Just because I can do something, doesn't mean I should.

I think I began this quest with a false, or partially false, assumption. I assumed that acoustics manufactured by Gibson, Martin, and the like, created easier playing acoustic guitars than the low end crud I currently own. I just assumed that cheap acoustic guitars were hard to play, and conversely, higher end acoustics would be easier to play.  Ignorance is oft my strong suit. Mea Culpa

So many times I have watched professional musicians tear up intense riffs on their acoustic guitars, and I always say to myself, "Self, how the heck can they rip up that acoustic with lead lines when I struggle to fret simple chords on mine.".  I know I suck at guitar, but I firmly believe that my crappy acoustics are enhancing my suckyness.

Ultimately, I am looking for an easier playing acoustic that will still produce full tone AND be appropriate for playing at fireside gatherings. I could care less if it is used or worn, as long as it is easy to play and sounds good. I have always found that price is relative, and great deals do exists for those willing to search for them. I am tiered of shying away from my acoustics, and not playing them as often as I want to, simply because I struggle to play the ones that I own.

 So Sparq, what the heck is a JBP???  (I actually don't even know what the term "Dreadnought" means.)  Can you help a brother out? Thanks in advance.

 

 

Edited April 20 by Sheepdog1969

[Sheepdog1969]

4 hours ago, bigtim said:

You haven't mentioned anything about your budget. 

You are correct, and I am a moron. As I said to Sparq, in the reply I just wrote to him, I neglected to address that very important issue. (Please refer to my reply to him posted above, for my clarification, which was partially based on your astute observation)

And, thank you for your Taylor recommendation!

Edited April 20 by Sheepdog1969

[Sgt. Pepper]

Probably most Gibson’s are going to be easier to play just because of their scale length at 24.75”. Now they do have some stuff that’s longer than that. Martin dreads are 25.4”, and most Martin 00 and 000’s are 24.9”. The oddity being the 000-15 at 25.4”. Remember shorter scale means less tension to tune it to concert pitch. Not sure what scale Guilds are. I think a lot of nylon Spanish guitars are 25” or so.

Edited April 20 by Sgt. Pepper

[Larsongs]

Don’t make the mistake thinking a new or used Guitar you buy at any price is going to automatically have a magic Set up. If it did chances are it wouldn’t be for sale. Although, there are some nice Used ones out there somewhere that pop up once in a while..

A new Gibson, Martin, Guild, Collings, Taylor or whatever come with basic Setups leaving room for the buyer to fine tune it to their Specs..

A Master Luthier can be a big assist in properly Setting up whatever Guitar you get.. Regardless of cost.. They may be able to do wonders with the Guitars you already have..

In my experience higher end Guitars usually play easier & sound superior.. There’s always the exception but in my experience they’re rare..

But, Sound is subjective.. What sounds amazing to one person is like finger nails scratching a Blackboard to others.. And everything in between.. 

Good luck finding your Guitar…

[PrairieDog]

Fwiw, there are some factors beyond the make of the guitar that contributes to easy playability and reducing fatigue/cramping.

you could try them out right now with your current guitars just to see if  they are in the realm to make a difference.  I apologize if you’ve already tried these and they didn’t help.

The first, and easiest is adjusting your technique: cramping comes from over-exertion combined with awkward hand mechanics.  

One thing is try not to hold the guitar neck in a death grip.  Because it starts out being hard to fret the strings, folks sometimes fall into a habit of thinking they have to mash down on the fret board to reduce buzz, etc.  And they get tense concentrating, and then tighten up even more.  

Try reframing and relaxing your grip.  Start out holding the neck loosely, but securely, and fool around fretting single strings and easy open chords like E-minor or A , finding the point where you are pressing on the strings as close to the fret as you can get, just hard enough to hold them down neatly, aiming for no buzz and a clear sound. Then let your hand only work that hard.  If you feel you are tensing up, stop and breathe, and stretch and relax your hand for a minute. 

Also, check your fingers are staying curled over the fret board with just your finger tips coming down with your knuckle perpendicular to contact the strings.  Like a piano player holds their hands arched.  Trying to play chords or runs with flattened knuckles so you are using your finger pads is a sure recipe for hand cramp and muddy, muted notes.  

As you practice, try simple chord changes while strumming, concentrating on staying loose and easy and watching your pressure. Don’t worry at this stage about tempo, rhythm or botched notes, just think about how your hand feels.  Go slow and work up.   

There are better you tube videos out there that demonstrate what I’m talking about if I’m not doing a good job explaining.  The key is relax into it.

The other things are string gauge and height.  Lighter strings and lower action will be easier to fret and won’t cause as much work.  Don’t worry about the sound for right now, you want to build up hand stamina, you can always switch back to heavier strings later working the muscles up into those.  I find the coated XS ones easier to move around on.  

Once you figure out if any of this helps, it could expand your options in your search for a new guitar.  Taylors have really comfortable necks for most folks, and if you have large hands the bigger gibson necks might feel good.  

Good luck with your quest.  

 

Edited April 20 by PrairieDog

[sparquelito]

1 hour ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

 So Sparq, what the heck is a JBP???  (I actually don't even know what the term "Dreadnought" means.)  Can you help a bother out? Thanks in advance.

Dreadnought. 
Definition from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought_(guitar_type)

 

JBP (or JB Player) was a brand of import guitars. 
Acoustic and electric. 
I'm not sure they even make them anymore. 

 

Here was the magic guitar that I accidentally destroyed with my lazy packing:

Edited April 20 by sparquelito

[Sheepdog1969]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Probably most Gibson’s are going to be easier to play just because of their scale length at 24.75”.

Thanks! Since dreadnoughts might be too big for my needs, what model number/style of Gibson acoustic should I be looking into? 

[Sheepdog1969]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

Fwiw, there are some factors beyond the make of the guitar that contributes to easy playability and reducing fatigue/cramping.

you could try them out right now with your current guitars just to see if  they are in the realm to make a difference.  I apologize if you’ve already tried these and they didn’t help.

The first, and easiest is adjusting your technique: cramping comes from over-exertion combined with awkward hand mechanics.  

One thing is try not to hold the guitar neck in a death grip.  Because it starts out being hard to fret the strings, folks sometimes fall into a habit of thinking they have to mash down on the fret board to reduce buzz, etc.  And they get tense concentrating, and then tighten up even more.  

Try reframing and relaxing your grip.  Start out holding the neck loosely, but securely, and fool around fretting single strings and easy open chords like E-minor or A , finding the point where you are pressing on the strings as close to the fret as you can get, just hard enough to hold them down neatly, aiming for no buzz and a clear sound. Then let your hand only work that hard.  If you feel you are tensing up, stop and breathe, and stretch and relax your hand for a minute. 

Also, check your fingers are staying curled over the fret board with just your finger tips coming down with your knuckle perpendicular to contact the strings.  Like a piano player holds their hands arched.  Trying to play chords or runs with flattened knuckles so you are using your finger pads is a sure recipe for hand cramp and muddy, muted notes.  

As you practice, try simple chord changes while strumming, concentrating on staying loose and easy and watching your pressure. Don’t worry at this stage about tempo, rhythm or botched notes, just think about how your hand feels.  Go slow and work up.   

There are better you tube videos out there that demonstrate what I’m talking about if I’m not doing a good job explaining.  The key is relax into it.

The other things are string gauge and height.  Lighter strings and lower action will be easier to fret and won’t cause as much work.  Don’t worry about the sound for right now, you want to build up hand stamina, you can always switch back to heavier strings later working the muscles up into those.  I find the coated XS ones easier to move around on.  

Once you figure out if any of this helps, it could expand your options in your search for a new guitar.  Taylors have really comfortable necks for most folks, and if you have large hands the bigger gibson necks might feel good.  

Good luck with your quest.  

 

Thanks for the advice, and no apologies needed regarding what I have already worked on for decades. I have tried lighter gauge strings, (which are currently on my POS acoustics, despite the thin tone.). My acoustics are just terrible, and no amount of technic can overcome that. I have not attempted to file the nut(s) to lower the action, but I do believe that is a great option. Once I acquire the proper files and measuring tools, I plan to attack that issue. However, I really want to buy a quality acoustic that will allow me to play at the level that I currently can with my electrics, without trying to put lip stick on a pig, (as it were ).  Thanks to the knowledgeable members here (such as yourself), and their sage advice, I expect to bring something home some day that feels/plays as comfortably as my Gibson electrics do.  I am just taking my first steps on this journey, and I can't wait to see where it brings me.

Edited April 20 by Sheepdog1969

[slimt]

There are alot of really nice guitars out there.   I guess you would have to go into a guitar store. Try a few of those.  I guess feel and sound would be first.  Then a price range that you can afford.   
 

the quality of the guitar is important .
 it has to last and meet your expectations . Do not be in a rush to decide. Guitars are on the walls for you to see the differences as well.   Dont get caught up in a salesmens pitch . Or fast hurry up and make a decision. 
 

we are here as a group if you get overwelmed in looking at to many.