retrosurfer1959 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Im all for ecology and all the tree hugging stuff but come on a lemur is nothing but a moderately cute rat so if were deciding between guitars and rats I pick guitars every time. Maybe lemurs make good case material I have a fake leapord skin the Billie Joe came in maybe the next custom case could be Lemur stripes??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 How many fretboards can you get, out of a typical tree? I'm not a lumberjack or a luthier, but it seems to me that if that rainforest is really disappearing, it's not because of Gibson. What else do you do with rosewood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I started off with the idea of some sorta wiseacre remark and then... After having seen both greed-caused environmental problems and yet also Greenie destruction of the environment and ending jobs just to make a point under misguided "environmentalism," I think wiseacre isn't wise. It sounds here as if politics is involved as much as anything and I dislike that. I won't go into some stuff I've seen in reference to politics damaging companies and putting good craftspeople out of work because of "environmental law." Yet I've also got a "conservation communicator of the year" award for harping about other stuff. As to a mod... Jocko was always courteous-plus to me in some backchannel notes. Guitar people are a little odd regardless, I think. It's odd how we feel a significant "community" among us, both here and other venues from Web to face-to-face, and yet we also can get feelings riled pretty easily. Some of us can be just plain jerks and most of us can be a bit more sensitive on occasion than we should be. Point is, Shadow's gotta do what he's gotta do; the "news" concerns me because I think Gibson is one of the few remaining truly unique American institutions; it's far better today than it was with non-guitar people running the place. I just deleted a cupla more paragraphs. All I can say is that I hope this particular community, and this particular company comes out of things as undamaged as possible. Period. This may sound cornball, but I think the world needs Gibson guitars made in the US by US craftsmen as much as the people of the US needs a Gibson made by guitar people. That's for cultural as much as economic reasons, btw. It's sad to me that some folks don't care about that sort of thing. KSG - it doesn't matter to some folks about fretboards, quantity or quality or anything else, but rather the politics of such things. There are folks with lots of pull who simply care more about image than a real world where human values should mesh with environmental ones in a dynamic in which both need some realistic protection. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recsec Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The reason I voted for Milod as member of the Month[thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 If Milod got paid by the word he'd own some really nice guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Arcadius Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I certainly do not belong among this fresh generations of ''environmentalists'' and ''green-thinkers'' (unless of course it comes to Peter Green...!). I don't really consider myself very sensitive on this green agenda promoted by everyone these day and I can certainly agree 100% with most of Milo's ideas on how environmental politics should always bear in mind and go hand-in-hand with the peoples' needs and their everyday efforts. Even without being American, I stand behind the idea of healthy American owned and run companies, as I stand behind the idea of German owned and run companies in Germany, Italian owned and run companies in Italy, Greek owned and run companies in Greece and so on... Don't forget that the rest of the world buys and consumes in an adoring manner traditional American products and certainly Gibson is among them. Same with Harley-Davidsons, Levis Jeans, Coca-Cola, only to name a few... However... (yes, we reached the dreadfull ''however'') I kinda get the idea the Milos' point of view is that Gibson should be protected by its government, due to all the above reasons, even if it has broken the law (even if they are international laws of another county's). I certainly do not subscribe to this point of view. IF they have broken laws, they have to pay. Period. And the only way to lift any shadows of doubt, is that proper autorieties investigate this. Gibson has to clear their name. They don't need bad publicity. Just a Standard hanging from Slash's neck. That will serve them for many years to come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesguitar65 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Man this is terribly sad. The Gibson name in instrument manufacture is practically an Icon. So what does this mean to owners of Gibson products? If Gibson is found liable, would all Gibson owners have to give up their instruments because it may have illegal woods? So all registered owners will be informed with this news? This is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I don't know how many of ya'll googled Madagascar Rosewood, I found this... http://forestpolicyresearch.org/2009/03/23/madagascar-rosewood-thieves-and-political-instability-shuts-down-marojejy-national-park/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown Rug Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Man this is terribly sad. The Gibson name in instrument manufacture is practically an Icon. So what does this mean to owners of Gibson products? If Gibson is found liable' date=' would all Gibson owners have to give up their instruments because it may have illegal woods?[/b'] So all registered owners will be informed with this news? This is terrible. doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Hector... Here's the problem as I've seen it expand over the past 45 years as a journalist who has, as I mentioned at least one nice bit of recognition as a "conservation communicator." "Law" when it comes to environmental issues is quite often a matter of "feel good" rather than "do good." Sometimes "feel good" is more damaging to the environment itself. Now, add consequences to humans, and we must begin to question things in a somewhat different way. That is not a comment on what may or may not be the case with Gibson. I don't know enough about the case to comment. Frankly it seems to me in general, however, that wood and some other natural resources of various sorts have become a "political issue" that have nothing to do with protecting the environment. I could offer far too many examples. Back to "Gibson" - and as you said, manufacturers and artisans in Europe or wherever. I do not care to envision a world in which national cultural identities have been stolen by losses such as to art and artisan communities. The damage is done in many ways. Gibson itself was in trouble, as were the "real" Guild, Gretsch, Harmony and such, when hit by "corporate buyouts" of the 1970s and 1980s. Gibson brand - and we here - are lucky, IMHO. I personally fear that the unintended consequence of both big government and big business in today's world is the loss of creativity and identity - perhaps especially in the marketplace of music. Guitars and similar musical instruments are dependent on specific types of woods and finishes as well as a high degree of human craftsmanship that yes, frankly I do wonder if they might not be considered something unique. That goes for manufacturers and individual craftsmen everywhere as well as in the U.S. As for "broken laws," sorry, when it comes to certain types of "environmental" law, I've seen far too much that is specifically political "feel good" rather than rational. I'll suspend judgment on this. The question is not just the price tag on a guitar, but also the price tag of unintended consequences that do truly cross the world and affect the environment and culture of many nations and many family economies both in the developed and in the under-developed world. "We" seek control through law of everything, eh? Is it always a "good thing?" And as Socrates asked, what is "good?" Yeah, I Googled the rosewood thing. It's sad, but consider that to the locals, it may be more sad that there is a need to eat and there are those who would exploit that need. Here's also where "politics" enter: Who has said much in favor of the human beings in that area as well as the lemurs? Who is trying to ensure a sustainable supply of woods? Who, in fact, is trying to see the picture as a whole, rather than just its parts? m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Here's my solution - ebony fretboards. At least I like them a lot more than rosewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 +1 evol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesguitar65 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Here's my solution - ebony fretboards. At least I like them a lot more than rosewood. There are some ebony woods that are endangered and are illegal as well. Ebony is not in the clear. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65 Casino Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I am sure a company like Gibson would not knowingly purchase illegal goods of any kind. That doesn't mean they don't have some "dirty wood". Makes me take a look at my guitars neck again anyways. I wonder if my wife is wearing a blood diamond on her finger... Well, guess I better hide that alligator skin case and eagle feather headband. Where did I put that ivory pipe... j/k I just can't believe what I read and Gibson will remain innocent until proven guilty or someone in the company that is proven guilty. Yes, I am in support of preserving the earths great gifts so don't come after me. I hate poachers of any kind. I do wonder about other lesser known guitar manufacturers out there though... where are they getting there wood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I just can't believe what I read and Gibson will remain innocent until proven guilty or someone in the company that is proven guilty. Yes' date=' I am in support of preserving the earths great gifts so don't come after me. I hate poachers of any kind. I do wonder about other lesser known guitar manufacturers out there though... where are they getting there wood? [/quote'] +1 But it does make wonder if it's all about good wood or cheap wood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 There are some ebony woods that are endangered and are illegal as well. Ebony is not in the clear. Thanks for raining on my parade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twelvebar Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 ... a whole lot of stuff i generally agree with' date=' except that... [/quote'] Gibson Guitar CEO Henry Juszkiewicz sat on the board of The Rainforest Alliance who exist solely for the implementation and regulation of the very Act and laws Gibson is being investigated for breaching. He has taken a leave of absence until this is done. Given the fact that he is/was prime mover on this issue, if he and his company contravened the laws he(as a member of this group,) advocated, and helped regulate, then it is pretty hard to make a case for any kind of leniency, if they are actually guilty of any wrong doing (which is far from being proven true at this point.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbursted Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Wow what's going on? First Guitarest thread gets nuked and he is stripped of his mod status. Now this... Aliens :- What did I miss??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbursted Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Like most manufacturers, they themselves don't actually go out and buy materials, they contract with suppliers who provide goods. Now with that being said, Gibson more than likely has a standing order with several suppliers who are all trying to stretch a dwindling profit margin. It would surprise me if a company like Gibson actually placed orders for rare/illegal materials, just doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdown Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Mmmm. Gibson Gate in the making...I hope not. Wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened. When it's The Man himself who gets taken to task for something instead of a fall guy,you know things aren't good. Somewhere,somehow somebody always knows what's going down.ALWAYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65 Casino Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Martin Guitars and Taylor Guitars - to name a few other guitar manufacturers - use quite a bit of rare tonewoods. Their websites are a feast for the Feds to just sit and browse through. Wonder what suppliers they are using... do I smell a class action suit? I also had a bad dream last night...my email was spammed with ads for the new acrylic guitars...clear, misty mountain blue, corvette red, Madagascar rosewood...and Ebony... most in the $2500 price range due to the rising prices of acrylic additives, preservatives, and yellow dye #5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 newby here. hola to all. regarding the discussion about wood and such, i have a friend who works in the lumber industry and he told me a while back to that farmers are currently holding back on harvesting wood as the industry, in a whole, is expecting a larger demand in 2010. we are talking about any manufacturing facility in need of wood, not guitar makers specifically. what is going on in madagascar is sad and has a far more serious aftermath than the possibility of bad publicity for a company such as gibson. one of you guys mentioned blood diamonds in an earlier post; think about the cars you drive, the couch you sit on, the tv you watch, the food you eat or any thing you consume, then wonder if there is a chance that 1/some of these items are manufactured with raw materials by anything deemed "illegal" in the places you call home. we all live in a consumption society where we all want to pay the lowest possible price so that we can feel good about life in general. companies will do what they can to make profit. is gibson "guilty", who knows, but i am sure we will find out. imho this is a witchhunt, could happen to any company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdown Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 newby here. hola to all. regarding the discussion about wood and such' date=' i have a friend who works in the lumber industry and he told me a while back to that farmers are currently holding back on harvesting wood as the industry, in a whole, is expecting a larger demand in 2010. we are talking about any manufacturing facility in need of wood, not guitar makers specifically. what is going on in madagascar is sad and has a far more serious aftermath than the possibility of bad publicity for a company such as gibson. one of you guys mentioned blood diamonds in an earlier post; think about the cars you drive, the couch you sit on, the tv you watch, the food you eat or any thing you consume, then wonder if there is a chance that 1/some of these items are manufactured with raw materials by anything deemed "illegal" in the places you call home. we all live in a consumption society where we all want to pay the lowest possible price so that we can feel good about life in general. companies will do what they can to make profit. is gibson "guilty", who knows, but i am sure we will find out. imho this is a witchhunt, could happen to any company.[/quote'] Welcome Tumbleweed and a big[thumbup] for a well thought out and intelligent reply. I agree with you 100%. As you stated,companies will(and do)do anything to make a profit. Wouldn't you just love to be a fly on the wall over in the CEO's offices at Martin,Fender,PRS etc. right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Arcadius Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 To Milod: I really appreciate the clarification on your point of view of the subject. Well thought-out and written and I could sign just underneath that one. My thoughts / position on the subject (which is so much bigger than Gibson...) exactly. Excellent comments from Lowdown, Tumbleweed & Silverbursted as well . Topics and arguments like these are the reason for my lurking at this Forum guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93DMTX Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 If you can't afford your dream guitar...just go confiscate a few. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2009/11/18/Agents-raid-guitar-makers-factory/UPI-79281258589092/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.