Shocking Gibson acoustic shopping experience.

[EuroAussie]

Firstly, im a great Gibson fan, and love both my LP and CW acoustic.

 

Ive been travelling a bit recently in Nth America. This week im in vancouver, BC.

 

As normally when i travel i check out the local guitar shops.

 

I was at one well known shop today, that basically stocked pretty much 75% of the Gibson acoustic range - it was like being in heaven on first sight.

 

Then the horror began. First a Hummingbird, sounded so 'swampy' as if it was full of socks. Move to a j185, even worse. The Dove was on a fraction better, mainly because the maple gave it a bit brighter sound. The J-160, not even worth talking about.

 

With the exception of a top end SJ-200 ALL these Gibsons sounded absolutely lifeless.

 

Ive never had such an experience, where all the Gibsons in the shop sounded so flat and unimpressive.

 

Completely opposite experience compared to Rudys Guitar in NYC, where each of the Gibsons sounded simply outstanding.

 

I was in the shop for 3 hours, and after told the salesman about my feeling, and he basically agreed. Claimed they need a year or two to open up. Yeah right, as if im going to spend a few grand waiting for that elusive sound.

 

Just so you know, the Taylors and Martins all sounded top notch, hence it was not a humidifier or maintanance issue.

 

My question is how could Gibson allow such models on display ?

Surely the rep must check them out regularly and see there is a problem.

 

To me this is really disappointing and saddening actually as i always get excited about playing a Gibson acoustic in a shop, but will be treading with more caution in near future.

 

cheers.

[larryp58]

I think I'm gonna be sick.......

[The G]

Dead strings ?

It never ceases to amaze me how some stores display top end instruments with sub-standard strings.

I have experienced the same .It seems alot of people want to try out the Gibson brand, so they get a lot of

use.

[nodehopper]

That area of the world is very humid this time of year.... new guitar+ dead strings + humidity ....it could just be as simple as that.

[J-200 Koa]

I think I have seen this same scenario play out many times before.....

[EuroAussie]

That area of the world is very humid this time of year.... new guitar+ dead strings + humidity ....it could just be as simple as that.

 

 

This is the thing. The humidity is not an issue as its a properly humidified room, and as I said the Martins, Taylors, Larivees sounded fine.

 

There were dead strings on a couple of the Gibbys but generally they were in good shape. I was taking a close look at these elements.

 

I find it really disappointing, especially after my experience playing the acoustics in NYC.

 

I just dont get why the Gibson rep doesnt do anything about it. There are so many people that go into a shop wanting a Gibson and they walk out with a Martin.

[MimingMinds]

I've had this experience in Sam Ash before too. With the exception of a used Songbird Deluxe, they all sounded pretty sub par to my ears. Luckily, a Guitar Center was directly across the street. The gibsons there sounded top notch. It wasn't dead strings either. The manager of the store who I know pretty well said that some Gibsons these days are just too glued up to sound special. Something about Gibson's reluctance to have to deal with warranty claims so they sometimes makes indestructible guitars that have no sound. Even in Guitar Center, some of the Gibsons didn't have the right sparkle. I was less than impressed with the Hummingbird. But the Hummingbird Pro was a different story. I walked out with it.

[6 string mystix]

it's funny...

 

I had the same experience MANY times...that is probably why I used to play mainly Martins...

 

to add insult to injury---I would also read comments in other forums where the prevailing sentiment was that Gibsons are just hit and miss---unlike other brands---like Martin---were actually consistently good to great...

 

I still remember going to different music stores and hardly ever finding a Gibson that would knock me out...

 

I accidentally stumbled onto my CJ-165---and it is my ONLY acoustic now---It is that good....

 

but still, it is sad that the perception is out there...

 

just my two cents

[bigshot]

Humidity definitely makes a big difference. I recently bought a new house and I've been struggling with humidity issues. For a few months there, it was all over the map, ranging from 20% to 60%. When it was dry, even super dry, my SJ200 sounded glorious. When the humidity went over 50, it was muffle city. I've now stabilized things a hair shy of the recommended humidity levels and my guitar and I are both happy.

[Guth]

EuroAussie,

 

I too have had very similar experiences — a number of times over the years unfortunately. I've played more than a few clunkers over the years. But when you walk into a store with a large number (say 10+) of Gibsons that sound that way it is more than a bit disheartening for a Gibson fan.

 

I've come to the conclusion that a factory rep probably doesn't care as long as the guitars are eventually sold. Somebody must like the ones that sound like they're "full of socks" as they do end up moving. Perhaps some people buy these guitars simply for their looks. I'm envisioning such purchasers as people that don't know any better, with more money than sense, and who can barely play, boasting about their Gibson simply because of the brand recognition, not to mention that Gibsons look beautiful regardless of their tone. It also always makes me laugh when a sales guy throws out the "it'll sound great after a few years" excuse. (There is what appears to be a 60's era CW at a shop near me which sounds like its strung up with rubber bands - even with new strings. Guess it's going to take a few more decades before it opens up and really starts to sing.)

 

In terms of the situation EuroAussie has described it's not the humidity, it's not the strings, it's not a delusion of some sort. It is a definite problem and I wish it weren't. But when I hear people putting down Gibson acoustics over on the AGF and other forums (or in personal conversations for that matter), I can understand why if their only experiences with Gibson acoustics are like the one that EuroAussie has experienced/described.

 

EuroAussie, understanding that you are a Gibson fan, I feel that I should mention that if you are going to be swinging through Portland, Oregon on your travels, we have a 5-star Gibson dealer here as well that usually stocks around 20 - 30 Gibson acoustics at any given time.

 

To me, the irony (and perhaps the beauty in a demented sort of way) of being a Gibson fan is that there's always a possibility that the next Gibson that you pick up is going to have "it" and truly sing to you. (Even if the last [insert random number here] Gibsons that you just played all sounded like some sort of a joke on Gibson's part.) We might not all agree on what defines the ultimate "Gibson tone", but I do think most of us would agree that when we finally find a Gibson that matches up with our own such expectations, it's a wonderful thing.

 

All the best,

Guth

[BigKahune]

Yep. I've had similar experiences - a lot of "dull" sounding Gibbies. But I think it's a cycle. I've got a couple of shops I visit regularly, and on a rare occassion there's a lot of the "dull" Gibbies. But visiting reguarly, I know that some less stellar sounding Gibbies have been left aside by buyers and they tend to accumulate. Eventually the shop drops their price and they sell. Then the cycle starts over again with mostly great sounding Gibbies.

[Buc McMaster]

....it's not the humidity' date=' it's not the strings, it's not a delusion of some sort. It is a definite problem and I wish it weren't.[/quote']

 

Amen. What is it with Gibson? Same factory, same people, same wood (for the most part).......what's the deal with consistancy?!?! While Martin, Taylor and others might not be our choice in guitars, they are very, very consistant from one guitar to the next. Some might say it's the hand-work that goes into Gibson moreso than the other builders. Well, maybe. But why ship a guitar in the first place that sounds dead as a doornail? I don't understand sub-par instruments making out of the factory to sit on a dealer's floor and further reinforce the notion that Gibson produces spotty quality.

[onewilyfool]

Our local shop strings the guitars with Cleartones, especially the upper models, and this gives the strings a little more shelf life when being played by some pimply faced teenager who just had Pizza and didn't wipe his hands clean......

[bkharmony]

As said above, probably dead strings. I have the same experience at every Guitar Center I visit (the only GIbson dealer near me, sadly). I don't think it's a coincidence that Taylor and Martin string their products with coated strings when they leave the factory. I personally hate coated strings, but if a guitar is going to sit in a shop and be played by hundreds of people for who knows how long, you need to use coated strings.

 

And FWIW, I've noticed my Gibsons are more susceptible to dead strings than my Taylors and other guitars. For whatever reason, they seem to sound worse with old strings than a Taylor or whatever.

[Xylophile]

IME it's the opposite. Well, sort of and not always. In any case, to me, both Taylors and Martins sound pretty awful with old strings. But some Gibsons sound great with old strings. It kinda highlights the character and mojo aspect of the Gibson tone. If that makes sense.

That said, a bad guitar is a bad guitar.

 

 

 

X

[ataylor]

Completely opposite experience compared to Rudys Guitar in NYC' date=' where each of the Gibsons sounded simply outstanding.[/quote']

 

Which Rudy's were you playing at, the original one just off Times Square up on 48th or the new "boutique" Rudy's down in Soho? I may be moving to NYC and might just have to get me a Gibson later this year, so I'm curious where all the good ones are!

[EuroAussie]

Which Rudy's were you playing at' date=' the original one just off Times Square up on 48th or the new "boutique" Rudy's down in Soho? I may be moving to NYC and might just have to get me a Gibson later this year, so I'm curious where all the good ones are![/quote']

 

This was the one in Soho, which is not only a beautiful shop, every guitar in their acoustic room sounded flawless. All the Gibsons sounded top notch, just a pleasure to play.

 

However I bought my C&W in Umanov guitars which has the best vintage guitar stock. However the overall best store in terms of range without doubt is Mandolin Bros in Statten Island - take the ferry trip and enjoy your Saturday afternoon. Lovelly folks also.

 

back to the shop in Vancouver, and it wasnt GC also had an acoustic room, properly humidified. I repeat myself that the strings on most of the Gibbys were relatively fine, only a couple had clearly dead strings.

 

I can deal with a couple of the Gibbys not sounding their best, but in this case the entire collection sounded dead, which is the real disappointing thing.

 

Getting the 'she'll open up in a couple years' line also irked me.

[Xylophile]

What was the acoustic behavior of the room like? Dry or alive? I know it would be the same for all acoustic guitars in that room (if played on the same spot), but relatively dry sounding guitars could for instance "suffer" more in a dry sounding room.

Long shot maybe, but it might explain part of the different experiences in different shops.

 

 

 

X

[EuroAussie]

What was the acoustic behavior of the room like? Dry or alive? I know it would be the same for all acoustic guitars in that room (if played on the same spot), but relatively dry sounding guitars could for instance "suffer" more in a dry sounding room.

Long shot maybe, but it might explain part of the different experiences in different shops.

 

If were talking the Vancouver store, the overall acoustic behaviour was somewhat dry. But this was a spacious acoustic room, so the sound would not be partiuclarly compressed and 'alive' partly due to size.

[maninblack]

I have noticed that Gibson's can take a little longer to reveal themselves. You have to work a little harder to figure them out but the rewards can be great. A Martin or Taylor might sound bright and impressive on the first strum then I find they often lose a bit of their luster the longer I play them.

 

Let me say that I have experienced this "everyone seemed like a dud" phenomenon on more than one occassion. I have not noticed it is any worse with Gibson than Martin or Taylor. I was at FQMS not long ago and the Gibson's were the only acoustics I played that sounded vibrant and alive.

[sorad]

Hey im from vancouver, and I just got a J45 and i had the same issue i tried so many of them they all had dead strings in the shop and alot of them sounded really bad but this was consistent with some of the martins I tried as well. I waited and found one that they took in on a trade that was a couple years old and it sounds great. which shop did you check out?

[grOOved]

This is the thing. The humidity is not an issue as its a properly humidified room' date=' and as I said the Martins, Taylors, Larivees sounded fine.[/quote']

 

Gibson's seem to take a while to open up - the stiffest sounding Gibson's I recall playing on my recent trip were the red spruce TV J-45s. I do believe they open up after you play 'em though...

 

To be fair a bunch of the Martin's sounded stiff as well.

 

The Taylors were pretty consistent though... consistently trebly with no balls.

[dwolf]

Another factor to consider- I've become very careful with the D'Addario EXP 80/20 strings that (I believe) Gibson is using at the factory. I like the strings when they are new, but, problem is, they go dead and may still look and feel fine. I notice only the most subtle darkening of the strings over the soundhole, but the rest of the string looks new. But the sound is gone. So, could be that the strings are the issue even though they may look and feel OK. Something sounds fishy if every Gibson in the place was off. The "overbuilt" due to warranty issues has been a valid complaint in past eras, but I think that the bracing is lighter now. In my experience with J-200's I think they are much more lightly built than they were in the early 90's. If there was a Gibson I was really interested in, I'd ask for it to be re-strung just to make sure I was hearing the full potential of the guitar.

Dwight