OK....What IS "Rock & Roll?"...IYHO

[Witmer]

Mixed up somewhere in there is a determination to be true to oneself and the attitude that anyone who don't like it can take a flying leap into the nearest lake.

[jnastynebr]

You cant be rock and roll if you tuck your shirt in.

[milod]

Awwwww..... C'mon cookie... <grin>

 

But seriously, what I wrote IS Rock 'n' Roll, not just the music itself but the attitude. The problem is that it's kinda like the "Roarin' 20s" in that by the time the next generation learns what it was really like, they're old enough to know why their parents never told 'em about it.

 

Rock 'n' Roll you definitely tucked in your shirt and probably wore a sport coat if not the car club jacket with the collar turned up. Only the Russians wore their shirt tails out, excluding if you wore a T shirt tucked in with an open and untucked flannel shirt over it both summer and winter. But I think hats went out of style largely because there was so much grease of various sorts on male hair that the hats 'd be stained beyond recognition.

 

Even my own Dad was riding a Harley down the middle of Main standing up on the seat, and gee, he was OLD in '57.

 

Imagine leaning up against a bar smoking a ciggie and drinking coffee at age 15 and BSing with a beat cop while the bookie's ticker tape was clicking away back past the illegal gambling-style pinball machines - and it was no big deal as the cop told you where you could take your rifle for a bit of anti-varmint plinking.

 

I wasn't all that unusual for my own time and place. Mom and Dad thought I was nuts for wanting to read Madame Bovary at 12 and Jack Kerouac at 12 or 13 along with James Legge's stuff and the Upanishads to get into zen and such; sold my first car at 13 and the deal was on a handshake Dad honored. (Of course I made a little better than he'd hoped on the deal.) OSHA hadn't been invented so I'd service cars from around 11 or 12. All the high school boys with cars carried a shotgun in hunting season. The rootbeer floats were so good and the car hops so cute you didn't even figure beer was all that necessary. <grin>

 

My big old tube radio got me listening to John Lee Hooker as well as the rock stations. TV was so bad you found other activities to keep you busy - if you were a boy, it probably revolved around engines and cars.

 

In retrospect, I think we were nuts to be rebellious...

 

m

[DanvillRob]

Awwwww..... C'mon cookie... <grin>

 

But seriously' date=' what I wrote IS Rock 'n' Roll, not just the music itself but the attitude. The problem is that it's kinda like the "Roarin' 20s" in that by the time the next generation learns what it was really like, they're old enough to know why their parents never told 'em about it.

 

Rock 'n' Roll you definitely tucked in your shirt and probably wore a sport coat if not the car club jacket with the collar turned up. Only the Russians wore their shirt tails out, excluding if you wore a T shirt tucked in with an open and untucked flannel shirt over it both summer and winter. But I think hats went out of style largely because there was so much grease of various sorts on male hair that the hats 'd be stained beyond recognition.

 

Even my own Dad was riding a Harley down the middle of Main standing up on the seat, and gee, he was OLD in '57.

 

Imagine leaning up against a bar smoking a ciggie and drinking coffee at age 15 and BSing with a beat cop while the bookie's ticker tape was clicking away back past the illegal gambling-style pinball machines - and it was no big deal as the cop told you where you could take your rifle for a bit of anti-varmint plinking.

 

I wasn't all that unusual for my own time and place. Mom and Dad thought I was nuts for wanting to read Madame Bovary at 12 and Jack Kerouac at 12 or 13 along with James Legge's stuff and the Upanishads to get into zen and such; sold my first car at 13 and the deal was on a handshake Dad honored. (Of course I made a little better than he'd hoped on the deal.) OSHA hadn't been invented so I'd service cars from around 11 or 12. All the high school boys with cars carried a shotgun in hunting season. The rootbeer floats were so good and the car hops so cute you didn't even figure beer was all that necessary. <grin>

 

My big old tube radio got me listening to John Lee Hooker as well as the rock stations. TV was so bad you found other activities to keep you busy - if you were a boy, it probably revolved around engines and cars.

 

In retrospect, I think we were nuts to be rebellious...

 

m[/size']

 

Man.... how'd we get from there to here?

[Twiz]

For me, Rock 'n Roll is a vessel for youth to rebel against the previous generation. If it makes your parents nervous, it's working.

 

I think that the spirit of Rock 'n Roll has always been there. -Even before it was invented. Kids always feel that need to rebel against their parents or authority. That's part of growing up, and becoming an individual. Often people would do that through musical expression. Even before R 'n R got it's name, kids were dancing too close at Swing shows, and generations before that probably did the same kind of stuff to earlier music.

 

I think there is a classic 'sound' of Rock 'n Roll. -That definitely comes from those early pioneers in the late 40's and 50's. However, I don't think that particular style is the only Rock 'n Roll there is. -It has evolved over time into many separate things, yet that original spirit is still there. Hell, even Rock 'n Roll basically was a combination of blues, country, and gospel, and I'm sure that those music styles evolved from something else as well.

 

Popular music is often reactionary, so it's going to change, otherwise it would get repetitive, boring and die. I think we should concentrate more on celebrating music rather than argue over whether or not band ________ meets the criteria to be Rock 'n Roll or not. If we really did our homework, I think we can trace just about any style of popular music back to those Rock 'n Roll roots...

[Rodney King]

I agree with ArtOwl.

[S t e v e]

Rock and Roll is the devils music.......he gave it to us but was truly meant for Blackie...just sayin

 

swleary IS the devil...just sayin

[milod]

Bob...

 

City folk. Urbanization. Rock came from rural roots, whether blues, country or even early electric Chicago.

 

The "rebels" became that against which they rebelled in the 60s, they just didn't see it. Some still don't.

 

If you ain't read an earlier version of Gilgamesh, do it. It tells in metaphor what and how urbanized culture captures the free spirit and converts it; then when that spirit eventually dies, the urban "demigod" is reminded of its own mortality and seeks some magic shrub... They saw the pattern already some 5,000 years ago.

 

Honestly, I found my last two years of a boarding high school in Massachusetts more culture shock than hanging out in Seoul. Of course, Massachusetts might just have prepared me for travel into other foreign countries. <grin> I dunno.

 

Rock 'n' roll, and not the anesthetized versions that came later, either. James Dean didn't OD. Neither will I.

 

m

[Daryl M]

To me...every time my dad told me to 'Get a haircut', every time my mom screamed 'Turn that guitar down!', Everytime I snuck out of bed and turned the TV way down just so I could see 'Midnight Special', Every time I went home with my ears ringing after the concert, Every time that girl at the gig smiled back....that was rock and roll.

[SG fan 420]

Rock and Roll is dead.

Why do we still play guitar then??? Hey it's your opinion' date=' rock on[biggrin'] I happen to agree with Ozzy.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac9qOu2ITH0[/YOUTUBE]

[FirstMeasure]

I must agree with SG Fan 420. If Rock and Roll were so Dead there wouldn't be a demand for Rock and Roll cover bands. The "Rock and Roll" section of Ticket Master wouldn't be the largest section. Satellite Radio wouldn't have so many Rock Stations. Churches would be using Organist, not 4 piece Electric Rock Groups.

 

The fact that it's doing something you don't like, ie selling advertising, doesn't mean it's dead. That just means you don't like to hear Rock on commercials, the fact that its's there and bothering you points to Rocks Healthy Vital Signs.

 

Rock 'n' roll' date=' and not the anesthetized versions that came later, either. James Dean didn't OD. Neither will I.

 

m

[/quote']

 

I hate to disagree with you, because your so well informed and write so damn well. But the 50's Rockers were Substance Abusers. Lots of Cross Tops, Black Beauties, and of course Alcohol Galore.

 

And James Dean may not have Overdosed, but he died of his own Stupidity and Self Destructive Behavior. Driving a machine that was too much for him, too fast, on a public road. It's not like he died saving orphans from a fire.

[cookieman15061]

The fact that we can't pin point what the heck it was/ is/ could or should be explains why it's Rock n roll!!

 

Keep trying boys we're treadin water.

 

[blink] [cool] [cool]

[SG fan 420]

Rock and Roll ain't no riddle man...............................TO ME IT MAKES GOOD GOOD SENCE[biggrin]

[milod]

Firstmeasure...

 

"And James Dean may not have Overdosed, but he died of his own Stupidity and Self Destructive Behavior. Driving a machine that was too much for him, too fast, on a public road. It's not like he died saving orphans from a fire."

 

Never said that. Yup lots of booze, lots of late nights, lots of long drives with sometimes... assistance at staying awake. Yup, pushing the envelope, even the little old lady from Pasadena and the Terror of Highway 101.

 

Heck, playing chicken in cars was not unheard of. Driving too fast? Don't even ask. <grin> The storied "Hot Rod Lincoln" was slow topping out at 110 compared to... Of course, that's just hearsay. <chortle>

 

"Running on the edge" may be a commonality, but in different modes. The older "rock" guys were more than happy to be wild rebels, but to be in control (booze and stay-awakes weren't considered to count) until the laws of physics took over.

 

Marilyn and Elvis weren't until into or after the 60s shift... The next generation of rock guys seemed to have made the shift to at least consider pharmaceuticals that changed one's head, or to have gotten into the heavier use of junk stedda fast cars and bikes. That's a significant philosophical difference.

 

When the "he got killed in a car wreck on dead man's curve" rock turned to "One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small," the shift in perspective was complete. There was no "peace and love" in the first rock generation, there were switchblades and late night drives at high speed, love, death and...

 

U.K. cafe racers and Healeys gave way to the Vespa and mini, in the US it was nice folks on a Honda and a mushroom.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a value judgment other than to say I was of the era of drive fast, die young, rather than the "let me take you down... to strawberry fields" where it simply was another variety of danger.

 

m

[Artie Owl]

I said Rock and Roll as we know it is dead. The demand for cover bands, and popularity on the radio is because

A.) Most of the people listening to music today aren't interested in the Pop alternatives out there

B.) Most of those cover bands learned to play rock and roll songs, and are playing gigs for other people from the same generation.

 

It's sad to say, but it's true, Rock is dead, music isn't. There will always be some form of music that will push boundaries and buttons, but when you've become so comfortable with "Rock and Roll" to the point where no one bats an eye when it's played anywhere, ever then it's dead.

 

Also, we play guitar because we like it, that was kind of a given.

[SG fan 420]

The way I see it, if people still listen to it and play it, it's not dead. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one[biggrin]

[Artie Owl]

Oh I love rock music don't get me wrong. There was a really great book written by someone high up in the industry about how he thought rock was dead but I can't remember the damn title now. Shame, if I do I'll pm you the title maybe you can see his view on it at the library.

[Rocky4]

Rock and Roll is dead. When every mall' date=' commercial and corporation spews it out it's not about sticking it to the man, it's part OF the man. Rock had it's time and now it's gone, but it will always be a part of us in spirit. [/quote']

 

Current top tours

1. Kenny Chesney

2. Phish

3. Dave Matthews Band

4. Jonas Brothers

5. Beyonce

6. Coldplay

7. Fleetwood Mac

8. Rascal Flatts

9. Nickelback

10 Dane Cook

 

 

I guess 2 out of 10 aint bad

[milod]

I would disagree that "rock" is dead.

 

Frankly I think the term, on the other hand, has come to mean what was meant in the '50s when one said "pop."

 

Variations of guitar-based combos playing a style defined as almost anything other than jazz or country are almost by definition "rock."

 

But as has been said here, I think also that we're at a point where the term is so generic that it nowadays simply means "popular music of the day and variations from the past 60 years."

 

I mean, think about it: We've had a term covering variations of popular music played for nearly 60 years? Wow.

 

m

[brundaddy]

I like what Milo has to say regarding the switchblades and automotive suicidal tendencies -- it's a move toward capturing the spirit of it, at least what I consider proper, dangerous, wild rock and roll.

[milod]

Brun...

 

A look at some of the "teen" movies of the era, even Broadway musicals, pretty well nail a lot of it. Key Witness, High School Confidential, Because They're Young, West Side Story...

 

Hot rods, fast cars, girls that may or may not smile instead of girls that may or may not ... uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

 

I think the "rebel era" of the 60s wasn't really, in the sense that it tended to be rather political rather than being an extension of the grease-stained and perhaps a little bit drunk fights or hot rod races.

 

The age difference even between my "little sister" - born 1947 - and myself was a pretty big deal. My first year in college, for example, the "in" thing was to be very creative and to have a creative thing you did. Two years later a visit indicated the campus just may have been floating about 18 inches above the level it had been before I left...

 

One advantage to the 60s version of "rock" was that it was far more social and socially acceptable in ways than the 50s version precisely because of the political component rather than emphasis on a switchblade/hot rod speed element.

 

They were different worlds, almost literally. The 60s rebel mellowed out with his buds; the 50s rebels rebelled against their buds as much as anything else ... rebels without a cause - another movie title of the era.

 

m

[FirstMeasure]

Firstmeasure...

 

"And James Dean may not have Overdosed' date=' but he died of his own Stupidity and Self Destructive Behavior. Driving a machine that was too much for him, too fast, on a public road. It's not like he died saving orphans from a fire."

 

Never said that. Yup lots of booze, lots of late nights, lots of long drives with sometimes... assistance at staying awake. Yup, pushing the envelope, even the little old lady from Pasadena and the Terror of Highway 101.

 

Heck, playing chicken in cars was not unheard of. Driving too fast? Don't even ask. <grin> The storied "Hot Rod Lincoln" was slow topping out at 110 compared to... Of course, that's just hearsay. <chortle>

 

"Running on the edge" may be a commonality, but in different modes. The older "rock" guys were more than happy to be wild rebels, but to be in control (booze and stay-awakes weren't considered to count) until the laws of physics took over.

 

Marilyn and Elvis weren't until into or after the 60s shift... The next generation of rock guys seemed to have made the shift to at least consider pharmaceuticals that changed one's head, or to have gotten into the heavier use of junk stedda fast cars and bikes. That's a significant philosophical difference.

 

When the "he got killed in a car wreck on dead man's curve" rock turned to "One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small," the shift in perspective was complete. There was no "peace and love" in the first rock generation, there were switchblades and late night drives at high speed, love, death and...

 

U.K. cafe racers and Healeys gave way to the Vespa and mini, in the US it was nice folks on a Honda and a mushroom.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a value judgment other than to say I was of the era of drive fast, die young, rather than the "let me take you down... to strawberry fields" where it simply was another variety of danger.

 

m[/quote']

I guess what I was saying was that even though devices may change, the motivations were pretty much the same. Being Cool, Rebelling against parents and the status quo, being dangerous to get noticed, dressing the right kind of different in order to fit in.

 

Having grown up in the 80's and early adult in the 90's, seeing the only way to piss of Your generation and the Hippy generation was to dress like a girl and wear make-up and Hairspray. All for the same motivations that prompted your generation to wear leather and chains prompted my generation to find the line that probably shouldn't have been crossed.

 

Personally, I never fit in with any clique growing up. I had long hair (no mullet) listened to the Blues, hung out with the Punk Rockers, and got along great with my parents. I always felt the tension between generations was obligatory by the time I was a teen.

[milod]

Firstmeasure...

 

I was so rebellious in ways I won't even go into it - but also in ways that kept the heat off me. <grin> Quoting a little Shakespeare at 14 didn't hurt, either.

......

 

I hear what you're saying, but I think the split in perspective between the 50s and 60s rock thing was a greater than average generational change. Politics and a new sort of pharmaceuticals combined for something different.

 

I could see it almost like watching the opening and closing of a door.

 

In retrospect the 50s "teen generation" had all the typical adolescent angst and more than its fair share of adolescent rebellion to cut the umbilical as all generations have done - but in other ways it was pretty naive as kinda reflected in a lot of the music of the era. The "pre-pill" rules of boy-girl relationships were far different from today, for example.

 

Then the 60s hit hard. "The Pill" and "girls can do whatever they want" arrived along with various mind-bending pharmaceuticals that were far different from booze, opiates or "uppers." That's not how "drugs" have been taught since you were a kid, but this was before the idea of "consciousness altering" drugs was a common concept.

 

Politics brought something else, too. In the 50s you might have gone with friends or car club mates to drag races where others shared the culture, but it was "your" car and in comparison to other cars. With the political angle, it was more a matter of a communal sort of lifestyle and goals. I don't know if that's explaining anything, but I'd say the 50s espoused individual goals and efforts and the 60s and 70s went to more collectivism in terms of social behaviors regardless which "side" of politics one adopted. We're still reaping the harvest of that one.

 

m